Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.

[screenexile]

Have spoken to one or 2 people involved and it seems that Antrim GAA have put the nails in their own coffin. They went in with all guns blazing with the social club and then with the residents group then when the contractors and Ulster GAA became involved and advised them it was a case of throwing a few quid at it ultimately they'd fucked everyone off too much for a resolution.

Is it true there are only 11 families with objections??

[babarino]

Have spoken to one or 2 people involved and it seems that Antrim GAA have put the nails in their own coffin. They went in with all guns blazing with the social club and then with the residents group then when the contractors and Ulster GAA became involved and advised them it was a case of throwing a few quid at it ultimately they'd fucked everyone off too much for a resolution.

Is it true there are only 11 families with objections??

Good question. Is this a tiny, very effective group, or is there broad opposition in West Belfast to the Ulster Council's plans for Casement? Some are saying the opposition boosted Gerry Carroll's vote (People Before Profit) in the last council elections.

[macdanger2]

Wouldn't know much details on this other than what I've read here but it sounds like whoever was running this has made a complete f*ck of it. The residents are entitled to a say and to the proper planning process being followed. It sounds like it wasn't and they objected but that doesn't make it their c**k up

[babarino]

When Casement Park was built so much money was collected from the people of Belfast that it was built bigger than planned. Now the people of Belfast have gathered together to drive it out.

I interviewed Sean McGettigan in his house a few years before he passed away. He told me the story of him walking down the road with a cheque in his hand for the construction of Casement Park. He struck me as a man who wanted the best for Antrim GAA but would never be taken for a fool, especially when it came to commercialism.

Two stories I remember - he wasn't a fan of the cult of the celeb in Brolly/O'Rourke/Spillane and thought the half time break would be better served showing highlights. He also thought journalists had lost their way with trying to write fairytales instead of sticking to conditions, crowd, how the game was won and how the game was lost.

The people of Belfast have not gathered to drive it out. Maybe the GAA have learned a vital lesson here in humility and professionalism.

Well summed up and it puts into perspective the direction the GAA has taken. We're too good for the Monaghan "market town", we need some city sophistication. But the city folk turn out to be 'unsophisticated'. A plague of rats on your houses...

[orangeman]

Padraig Duffy seemed to be hard line in today's IN when saying that the Gaa would be going flat out again for 38k capacity stadium. No surrender.

[rrhf]

I agree it will happen but I think it's fair to say that those with the vested interest on this board ie family houses etc will always be against this and they have their views whether we agree or not.  I feel they should explain that so we can appreciate and respect their reasoning.. but that's their option.some Others who have no interest  except the good of the gaa in Antrim and ulster are scratching their heads and asking what about the greater good? What do you guys really want. Your proposal is no good at 25k stadium.  It's no good. 

[rrhf]

You have saidbpreviously that all was wanted was a jr and now that has happened and exposed some doe wrongdoings.. As long as a  revised stadium complies with the law even at 38k then are you happy?  If later law  judgements come on board will you accept them if they address all the doe related issues . Or is the jr simply a tactical means to prevent or delay the investment in the area.

[6th sam]

You have saidbpreviously that all was wanted was a jr and now that has happened and exposed some doe wrongdoings.. As long as a  revised stadium complies with the law even at 38k then are you happy?  If later law  judgements come on board will you accept them if they address all the doe related issues . Or is the jr simply a tactical means to prevent or delay the investment in the area.

Like most GAA supporters with no vested interest with ulster council, Antrim Gaa or local residents, I am getting increasingly frustrated and angry with issues surrounding casement park. I don't want to insult those directly involved, but all parties need to reflect and make sure the project goes ahead as quickly as possible. If there is any risk of further delay or possibility of planning refusal, the GAA needs to work on securing the money for other projects, if that is possible.
The problems are multi-factorial
It appears only a small minority of the local community (difficult to quantify exactly what percentage of nearby households) are significantly unhappy with the GAA's approach. Their concerns ranged from natural light impact, crowd congestion, to social club interference. It is possible these concerns are exacerbated by varying degrees of political, anti-gaa , or indeed personal agendas.
This small cohort of objectors (I don't like the term local residents, as they appear to be a minority of local residents , backed up by family connections and others with vested interests) , should be careful what they wish for! Their insistence on 25k, will prevent the stadium development, therefore also block jobs, investment and improved community confidence and esteem , for one of the most socially deprived areas in Europe. The proposed new Casement will be the most modern facility in Europe. In addition to GAA supporters, rugby and concerts will attract a more diverse attendance into an area of the city with massive potential, which has been under resourced and under-utilised for years.

There has been a stadium here for the past 60 years, with crowds of £40k+ in the past. The most longstanding residents would have witnessed regular large crowds, while newer purchasers would have been well aware of the presence of a stadium.
As alluded to previously, it goes with the territory that all urban areas by their nature , are  liable to see construction development. What is the alternative for local residents? a delapidated crumbling structure which may eventually be replaced by industrial estates, or worse.
Can we clarify one point at this stage, a 25k structure is a non starter, as it would not attract the funding which is for a provincial stadium. Every other county in Ulster has a functioning stadium of 20k+ . Antrim are fortunate in that Stormont,and Croke park are prepared to fund what will effectively be their county stadium. If Antrim Gaels don't want this investment, we'll gladly take it to develop Páirc Esler . Croke park and Stormont , are not going to release monies to develop a county stadium, which doesn't meet The GAAs strategic plan, or indeed Stormont's , for a provincial stadium. I agree entirely with Padraig Duffy's assertion that a new state of the art stadium, will actually attract more punters, in addition to the usual 30k+ sellout ulster final crowds. So, at least 38k will be required.
I genuinely find the concerns regarding capacity , traffic impact , environmental factors hard to comprehend, given that there are similar and larger stadiums in every comparable sized city across Europe . These problems should not be insurmountable, and in effect were intelligently used by the objectors to secure a successful outcome from the JR, which would not have been achieved by challenging capacity alone.
I genuinely empathise with residents concerns re light and crowd impact, for anyone living close to stadiums, but these problems seem to be surmountable in other areas. It would be an absolute travesty if Ulster Gaels and particularly West Belfast , are robbed of a landmark facility made possible by this once-off Croke park and Stormont funding.
I genuinely think the objectors have underestimated the devastating impact of this stadium not going ahead in Belfast, due either to planning problems, or delaying tactics making it untenable even if planning is eventually approved.
I think the Ulster council have to engage with , and respect residents views, and by the same token the residents have to accept its a 38k stadium or nothing.

[orangeman]

You have saidbpreviously that all was wanted was a jr and now that has happened and exposed some doe wrongdoings.. As long as a  revised stadium complies with the law even at 38k then are you happy?  If later law  judgements come on board will you accept them if they address all the doe related issues . Or is the jr simply a tactical means to prevent or delay the investment in the area.

Like most GAA supporters with no vested interest with ulster council, Antrim Gaa or local residents, I am getting increasingly frustrated and angry with issues surrounding casement park. I don't want to insult those directly involved, but all parties need to reflect and make sure the project goes ahead as quickly as possible. If there is any risk of further delay or possibility of planning refusal, the GAA needs to work on securing the money for other projects, if that is possible.
The problems are multi-factorial
It appears only a small minority of the local community (difficult to quantify exactly what percentage of nearby households) are significantly unhappy with the GAA's approach. Their concerns ranged from natural light impact, crowd congestion, to social club interference. It is possible these concerns are exacerbated by varying degrees of political, anti-gaa , or indeed personal agendas.
This small cohort of objectors (I don't like the term local residents, as they appear to be a minority of local residents , backed up by family connections and others with vested interests) , should be careful what they wish for! Their insistence on 25k, will prevent the stadium development, therefore also block jobs, investment and improved community confidence and esteem , for one of the most socially deprived areas in Europe. The proposed new Casement will be the most modern facility in Europe. In addition to GAA supporters, rugby and concerts will attract a more diverse attendance into an area of the city with massive potential, which has been under resourced and under-utilised for years.

There has been a stadium here for the past 60 years, with crowds of £40k+ in the past. The most longstanding residents would have witnessed regular large crowds, while newer purchasers would have been well aware of the presence of a stadium.
As alluded to previously, it goes with the territory that all urban areas by their nature , are  liable to see construction development. What is the alternative for local residents? a delapidated crumbling structure which may eventually be replaced by industrial estates, or worse.
Can we clarify one point at this stage, a 25k structure is a non starter, as it would not attract the funding which is for a provincial stadium. Every other county in Ulster has a functioning stadium of 20k+ . Antrim are fortunate in that Stormont,and Croke park are prepared to fund what will effectively be their county stadium. If Antrim Gaels don't want this investment, we'll gladly take it to develop Páirc Esler . Croke park and Stormont , are not going to release monies to develop a county stadium, which doesn't meet The GAAs strategic plan, or indeed Stormont's , for a provincial stadium. I agree entirely with Padraig Duffy's assertion that a new state of the art stadium, will actually attract more punters, in addition to the usual 30k+ sellout ulster final crowds. So, at least 38k will be required.
I genuinely find the concerns regarding capacity , traffic impact , environmental factors hard to comprehend, given that there are similar and larger stadiums in every comparable sized city across Europe . These problems should not be insurmountable, and in effect were intelligently used by the objectors to secure a successful outcome from the JR, which would not have been achieved by challenging capacity alone.
I genuinely empathise with residents concerns re light and crowd impact, for anyone living close to stadiums, but these problems seem to be surmountable in other areas. It would be an absolute travesty if Ulster Gaels and particularly West Belfast , are robbed of a landmark facility made possible by this once-off Croke park and Stormont funding.
I genuinely think the objectors have underestimated the devastating impact of this stadium not going ahead in Belfast, due either to planning problems, or delaying tactics making it untenable even if planning is eventually approved.
I think the Ulster council have to engage with , and respect residents views, and by the same token the residents have to accept its a 38k stadium or nothing.

[/b]

Therein lies some of the problems.

It was quoted in the IN yesterday that a 25k stadium was not viable. I'm sure there would have been studies carried out into the viability of it all ? Seeing as the stadium is funded by government etc to a large degree, this is a good head start in terms of its viability.

[armaghniac]

I genuinely find the concerns regarding capacity , traffic impact , environmental factors hard to comprehend, given that there are similar and larger stadiums in every comparable sized city across Europe . These problems should not be insurmountable, and in effect were intelligently used by the objectors to secure a successful outcome from the JR, which would not have been achieved by challenging capacity alone.

Good post  6th Sam. These are always some objectors to anything, however desireable, but they were able to use these issues in the JR. As you say there are stadia in every city and these issues are surmountable, the problem was the was little or no data produced on these issues. The GAA presumably produced anything the  planners asked for. You can blame Durkan, but he is not a planner, other officials in his office went along with this and they'll still be drawing their pension.

[imtommygunn]

Belfast is supposed to be the most congested city in europe. That's before any proper stadiums are built...

You only have to visit anfield to see that a stadium can ruin an area.

[Dubh driocht]

Belfast is supposed to be the most congested city in europe. That's before any proper stadiums are built...

You only have to visit anfield to see that a stadium can ruin an area.

Source?
I want to see a stadium that meets the needs of GAA, Belfast and the majority of local residents. It shouldn't need Einstein to sort that out. It should be backed by our taxes and needs to be built ASAP.

[imtommygunn]

The radio... I've heard that from various places too.

Personally I don't believe belfast is the right place for this stadium.  Nothing to do with residents or protests either.

If it had a lot to add with infrastructure etc that would be a start but not sure it does.

[MK]

Excellent post 6th Sam-
Jerome quinn summed up the whole situation in an interview with Frank Mc Clorey on U105  during the week when he said maybe its time the Ulster Council changed their team on this as while he complimented Tom Daly as a gentleman,he merely stated,when Ryan Feeney was concerned,that Casement park/West belfast was totally different to Faughanvale !!

[cornerback]

The radio... I've heard that from various places too.

Personally I don't believe belfast is the right place for this stadium.  Nothing to do with residents or protests either.

If it had a lot to add with infrastructure etc that would be a start but not sure it does.

A quick google search would say otherwise!