Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.

[JPGJOHNNYG]

Well there you have it money, market value of the properties mmm looks like that woman on talkback wasn't talking nonsense after all. 

[Applesisapples]

Lets have a rational look at this. Here was an opportunity for a £70m investment in an area that has cried for decades about Unionist mis-rule and under investment. There is a need for a stadium of around 40,000 to host Ulster Finals and AI quarters where opening Croker is marginal and if a by product is a few concerts and all the corporate events that the venue could also host that is money reinvested in the GAA. And no doubt Antrim would have benefited also. False Gaels yes, I have heard so many of these hard pressed citizens claim to be great Gaels yet they stand in the way of progress. So as they don't want the investment lets take it elsewhere. I don't accept that it was only for casement, it was a SF/DUP carve up and the GAA will get the cash. This Nationalist hard done by sob story begging bowl attitude needs to be forgotten it is shameful.

[JPGJOHNNYG]

hardstation is paddy heaney talking crap then? about resident getting money?

i seen mark sidebottom on bbc news last night with a document in his hand saying the residents were offered a deal in may 2013 worth just over a million pounds, is this also false?! listen for yourself, link is below!

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/northern-ireland/30479191

Can't listen at the minute but if your description is correct, the residents were offered a pay off in 2013 but didn't take it and continued with Judicial Review. What part of that makes you think that they want a pay off? How can you take anything but the opposite from that?

Couldn't agree on how to divide the money up is what the man said. In fairness the GAA were mad to continue with the plans. Alarm bells should have been ringing at an early stage. Sure even if it was built and they wanted their concerts then it would be more of the Croke Park fun and games everytime there was an event

[bannside]

I'm as good and proud an Antrim gael as anyone but no matter how fanciful a big bright new stadium would be, I think that in this case many of the residents were perfectly entitled to have their views reflected in a respectful way.

Yes, the odd one or two would have gladly taken a few handy grand if they could get it in compensation - but what drove most of the objectors on was the way they felt their views were being trashed.

Everyone can take their own lessons from this - but in hindsight just a bit more humility from high brow officials could have seen this problem nipped in the bud long ago.

[rrhf]

This is a terrible shame and the big loser in this will ultimately be  Antrim GAA first and foremost.  Ill let others gloat or point fingers on the rights and wrongs.  So what... everyone lost here...West Belfast has lost their stadium of light. 

However this is typical of our wee place.. The North is a mad place at times and any semblence of progress and forward thinking will always be blocked and we just trundle on from issue to issue. We as a people tend to shoot ourselves in the foot time and time again.  We just cant handle anything bigger than us...     

[Minder]

I do think the whole thing was a vanity project by the Ulster Council, certain individuals within Antrim GAA and local politicians, and the residents views were going to be a distant second to their motives.

Did anyone put a back of a fag box calculation on how much money this would bring into West Belfast? There are certain areas of West Belfast that could do with regeneration but I wouldn't have thought Andytown is one of them.

[Tony Baloney]

I do think the whole thing was a vanity project by the Ulster Council, certain individuals within Antrim GAA and local politicians, and the residents views were going to be a distant second to their motives.

Did anyone put a back of a fag box calculation on how much money this would bring into West Belfast? There are certain areas of West Belfast that could do with regeneration but I wouldn't have thought Andytown is one of them.

Throw Dunsilly into the mix and it shows that Antrim really is a hash.

[rrhf]

I remember a similar argument from NI supporters about not needed larger capacity as well.  Dreamers and visionaries are scorned as 'egos' and projects as vanity projects.  We should have built Croker for 50 k as well then.  An average county ground for Antrim GAA for the next 50 years. 

[Saffrongael]

Heaneys article

Had opposition just been "whittled down to a few houses" ?



UNLIKE The Honourable Mr Justice Horner, a lot of people made a rushed judgment about Casement Park yesterday morning.

At 10:26am, a tweet from @ClubAontroma announced that "planning permission for the redevelopment of Casement Park is denied in court".
That statement wasn't accurate. Mr Justice Horner hasn't denied anything - yet.
Yes, the judge ruled that the Department of the Environment made a hash of things. The DOE messed up. Traffic assessments and environmental surveys were not carried out properly.
When assessing the impact of the new stadium, the DOE claimed only an extra 5,000 fans would be attending the ground. This was calculated from a baseline attendance of 32,500. But Casement Park hasn't been filled for years and Mr Justice Horner ruled that a much smaller figure should have been employed. Crucially though, the judge didn't quash the planning permission. Instead, he has asked the parties to convene tomorrow morning. The final outcome is expected tomorrow.
The judge's reluctance to make a definitive judgment should be a source of hope for the GAA.
If the project was going to be killed stone dead then it can be assumed the news would have been delivered yesterday.

A judicial review is like a boxing contest. Two combatants enter the ring. If both parties are still alive at the end, the referee raises the arm of one man.
When dispensing verdicts the law is usually just as swift. So why has Mr Justice Horner refused to declare an outright winner?
It's difficult to avoid the conclusion that the judge believes some type of accommodation can be reached.

Let's hope he is right. It would be a travesty if the opposition of such a tiny minority derailed a project that has got almost universal support.
A few months ago, I argued that the vast majority of the people in west Belfast were in favour of Casement Park being redeveloped. The main thrust of the opposition was coming from the 180 houses situated around the ground.

Since then the GAA has got its act together and that opposition has been whittled down to a few houses.

The vast majority of residents are now willing to accept a compensation package. Under the terms of the proposal, the houses surrounding the new venue will be divided into four categories: A,B,C and D.
Residents of category A houses will receive £20,000 and the descending scale is £15,000 (category B), £10,000 (category C) and £5,000 (category D).
Ulster GAA has also volunteered to build a 2,000 square foot community centre and residents
will be represented on the stadium's board.
It was former Down hurling manager John Crossey who led the resistance to the 38,000 seater stadium. Crossey was the chairman of the Mooreland/ Owenvarragh Residents Association. It's worth noting that Crossey has since resigned from that post.
Regardless of what happens tomorrow, it is abundantly clear there is a collective will for Casement Park to be redeveloped. Even if Ulster GAA is forced to go back to square one, they can still get their new HQ on the Andersonstown Road. They just need the DOE to correct the mistakes which were made the first time around.

Ironically, the greatest threat to the project could come from within the GAA. As things stand, the British Exchequer is willing to provide £61million for a new GAA stadium in Ulster. Croke Park has also agreed to provide £15million. But some influential figures in the GAA are not in favour of Ulster's new HQ being built in Belfast. Instead, they believe the project should be shelved and the £15m from Croke Park should be ploughed into St Tiernach's Park in Clones.
The powers-that-be in Croke Park have a responsibility to publicly voice their support for Casement Park.

For years, leading GAA officials have told us that they are committed to developing Gaelic games in Ireland's second city. Such words would sound extremely hollow if the GAA turns its back on Belfast and returns to a market town in Monaghan. Throughout this long and infuriating dispute, the residents have insisted their main gripe lies with the height of the new stadium. But the Ulster Council has been reluctant to reduce the size of the capacity. For good reason, they have insisted that the ground must hold more than 35,000.

For a compromise, the GAA should look to the east of the city. Kingspan Stadium, formerly Ravenhill, has a capacity of 18,000. Terracing accounts for exactly half of that figure.
That's right. It seems your average ex-Methody, scarf-wearing rugger lover has no objection to standing at a game.

This raises one very pertinent question. Why is Ulster GAA so obsessed with building an all-seater venue? With terracing they could build a smaller stadium and still cater for 40,000 supporters. GAA insiders claim the push for all-seater grounds comes from market research that was carried out at national level. The researchers must have conducted their surveys in the VIP section in Croke Park. I would dispute those findings and for hard evidence I would point to Hill 16.
Even when seats are available, there are thousands of Dubs who still prefer to stand on the Hill. Apart from the fact they will have a better time, their preference for standing could also have something to do with the price of the tickets. It's cheaper to stand. For most PRO12 games at Ravenhill, a seated ticket costs between £22 and £30. Terrace tickets are area is £15-£18. The clever people at Ulster Rugby insisted there was terracing the whole way around their new ground. Why? Because terracing generates more noise and a better atmosphere. (I just wish Ulster GAA upheld the same working class values as their counterparts in Ulster Rugby).

The delay caused by this judicial review is costing the Casement Park project £60,000 a week.
The overall bill has now risen by £2.7 million. Counsel for the GAA revealed nearly £5m of preliminary work will be lost if the scheme is halted further. The site is infested with rats. While the residents might have understandable grievances with the stadium, the alternative could be a lot worse. Prolonging this saga serves no-one's interests. There is room for compromise from both sides. There must be a good reason Mr Justice Horner is bringing all the parties into a room tomorrow.

[armaghniac]

I do think the whole thing was a vanity project by the Ulster Council, certain individuals within Antrim GAA and local politicians, and the residents views were going to be a distant second to their motives.

AS far as the vanity project is concern they were given the money and came up with a scheme to match. The project was not well handled, but the Ulster council have to represent the GAA and the residents have had a stadium for Ulster finals beside them for 61 years, this is simply an inevitable modernisation.

Heaney's article has some merit, but Madden has the usual it will do Antrim and feck the rest of you approach.

[ONeill]

Even supporters of the new stadium must admit this was an incompetent fcuk-up.

No effective environmental assessment
No effective safety issue assessment
No traffic impact assessment
No planning rights for the new capacity
DoE incompetence.

Was this an A Level project?

[armaghniac]

Even supporters of the new stadium must admit this was an incompetent fcuk-up.

No effective environmental assessment
No effective safety issue assessment
No traffic impact assessment
No planning rights for the new capacity
DoE incompetence.

Was this an A Level project?

The shocking thing is that the DOE did not set out the need for these things back at the beginning. It is fair to criticise the GAA in some respects, but they did what the DOE asked, expecting them to anticipate that the DOE were not doing their job is asking a lot.

[Wildweasel74]

From what i gather today in at work from a person living a street over, the main focus was on 6 houses intitally which i think the GAA tried to buy. 2 would sell, the other 4 were older people who always lived there and were not interested in moving. Some residents think they won the case but the majority in the area accept a stadium of around 30k will probably be built, I think it was down to an issue of right to light and the shadow from the new stadium would have their houses in permanent shade.

She had mentioned some other houses which may have been also under the scope, one women wouldn't accept any less that over £400k for a house worth only a third of that, the GAA would have no choice but to pay it, again this is 2nd hand information so i don't know, you know what gossip like.

[theticklemister]

From what i gather today in at work from a person living a street over, the main focus was on 6 houses intitally which i think the GAA tried to buy. 2 would sell, the other 4 were older people who always lived there and were not interested in moving. Some residents think they won the case but the majority in the area accept a stadium of around 30k will probably be built, I think it was down to an issue of right to light and the shadow from the new stadium would have their houses in permanent shade.

She had mentioned some other houses which may have been also under the scope, one women wouldn't accept any less that over £400k for a house worth only a third of that, the GAA would have no choice but to pay it, again this is 2nd hand information so i don't know, you know what gossip like.

exactly

[rrhf]

why did John Crossy resign from the residents group.  He was quite vocal was he not?