Roscommon v Armagh

Started by illdecide, July 02, 2018, 10:06:15 AM

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Tim’s Hero

Can't believe McGeeneys outburst , so now it is everyone's fault but his that a lot of players won't commit to play for the county , surely it is the managers remit to ensure an environment is created where players would walk to Armagh to be involved.
In the workplace all managers have to deal with external influences and the best managers are those who trust their people to make the correct decisions as they know they have created an enjoyable workplace where all are valued and enjoy going to work.
Matter of trust really , don't think he did himself any favours there !

Rudi

Quote from: tonto1888 on July 09, 2018, 09:17:06 PM
Rossies, has there been much turnover in your team since the 2014 game? We had 7 in our squad on Saturday who were there.

9 lads  involved in 2014 and on team / panel Saturday

smelmoth

Quote from: Tim's Hero on July 09, 2018, 09:36:51 PM
Can't believe McGeeneys outburst , so now it is everyone's fault but his that a lot of players won't commit to play for the county , surely it is the managers remit to ensure an environment is created where players would walk to Armagh to be involved.
In the workplace all managers have to deal with external influences and the best managers are those who trust their people to make the correct decisions as they know they have created an enjoyable workplace where all are valued and enjoy going to work.
Matter of trust really , don't think he did himself any favours there !


Timmy

I believe that there are 2 issues that we have to try to address. 1 is tactical and the other is the missing personnel. I believe these issues are placing an artificial ceiling on how far we can rise.

My questions to you are twofold.

Firstly;
Do you believe there are other issues and if so can you spell them out?
Could you support a McGeeney-lead management team if these 2 issues (and any further ones that you care to specify) were addressed?

Tim’s Hero

Mothy

To be quite honest I think the 2 points you make are linked and McGeeney is putting up a smokescreen to deflect from anybody looking in his direction.
Tactically McGeeney has wasted 3 years trying to introduce a system which didn't suit or wasn't understood by the players , system was based on a defensive set up with runners coming from deep a la Jimmy Donegal. A lot of players were not happy or comfortable with system and several requested change of tactics which was met with usual McGeeney diplomacy , this ended up with friction in the camp and withdrawal of a number of players , the players who stayed on have a devotion to McGeeney and would eat grass for him but some don't really have the ability for county football at a higher level.
McGeeney seemed to soften his approach last year and gathered up the best of the rest and let the players express themselves a bit more , progress was made through league and things were on the up , however a complete tactical melt down in Newry coincided with a return to the system which again didn't suit /wasn't understood by the players and I feel they thought they were thrown under the bus for performance. The players after a shaky start through the qualifiers threw off the shackles and played expressive football that they are capable of and received all the plaudits.
However when the Tyrone match came round the management reverted back to the system and the rest is history, the lads devoted to McGeeney stayed ,but a lot thought what's the point !!management don't trust us to play and they will revert back to their default position at all times , hence withdrawals from squad en masse . Then McGeeney has a go at everyone else for withdrawals , start with man in the mirror.
Can McGeeney be trusted with another crop of players ?? I wouldn't think so, the cycle will just keep repeating for another 4 /5 years . Strictly my own opinion based on what I see and read.









yellowcard

Caolan Rafferty
Ethan Rafferty
James Morgan
Declan McKenna
Oisin O'Neill
Ciaran O'Hanlon
Stefan Campbell
Jamie Clarke

At least 6 of those players should be in the starting 15 for Armagh and would significantly strengthen the side so McGeeney is playing with a weakened hand. There may be others also that I have excluded but can't think of. Given the players that he is missing I think he done as well as could be expected as any manager this season. The question is why are those players not playing for the county team?

To the best of my knowledge all players bar Morgan, McKenna, Campbell and O'Neill are unavailable due to injury or are travelling abroad. McKenna I don't understand, he has been up among the best club players in the county consistently for the last 4/5 years but has never really had a decent chance at county level. Morgan too is a great defender at club level but has never consistently produced at county level whilst Campbell after one brilliant year a few years back when he was arguably one of the top forwards in Ireland, appears to have gone backwards since then largely due to lack of committment. O'Neill is still young and it is still unclear if he will be a county level footballer but he certainly has the potential to do so. I don't know the exact reason why these players have not committed but I reckon that McGeeney reckons they have been influenced by people surrounding them. He might not be far wrong. That said, it is their right to choose not to play county football if they so wish but the county team is weaker without them.

     

Tim’s Hero

Gary McCooyey
Sean Connell
Aidan Nugent
Rian O'Neill
Ciaran Higgins (inj for 2 seasons)
Ben Crealy
Nugent (Maghery)
Barry McCambridge
Young lad plays 6 for Sarsfields

List goes on !! Lot of people missing the point , substantial number of lads not there because of management .

yellowcard

Quote from: Tim's Hero on July 10, 2018, 09:32:51 AM
Gary McCooyey
Sean Connell
Aidan Nugent
Rian O'Neill
Ciaran Higgins (inj for 2 seasons)
Ben Crealy
Nugent (Maghery)
Barry McCambridge
Young lad plays 6 for Sarsfields

List goes on !! Lot of people missing the point , substantial number of lads not there because of management .

Crealey played against Fermanagh. Heffron is another who I forgot had opted out.

A lot of those players you mention are not better than what is there at the moment.  Rian O'Neill was with the U-20's and will be a county player in future but I think he made the correct decision playing at that grade this year and should be on full senior squad next season.

Throw ball

#322
Quote from: Tim's Hero on July 10, 2018, 09:32:51 AM
Gary McCooyey
Sean Connell
Aidan Nugent
Rian O'Neill
Ciaran Higgins (inj for 2 seasons)
Ben Crealy
Nugent (Maghery)
Barry McCambridge
Young lad plays 6 for Sarsfields

List goes on !! Lot of people missing the point , substantial number of lads not there because of management .

Crealey injured and Higgins started against Sligo a few weeks back.

Tim’s Hero

Only adding to last Saturdays squad , add in Kernan's , Carragher from Cross , Andy Mallon , Finn Mo , all early 30's who still featuring with their clubs . Their experience would have made all the difference coming off bench for last 15 . Mayo team has several over 30's still playing out of their skin !!

JP

Quote from: Tim's Hero on July 10, 2018, 10:37:57 AM
Only adding to last Saturdays squad , add in Kernan's , Carragher from Cross , Andy Mallon , Finn Mo , all early 30's who still featuring with their clubs . Their experience would have made all the difference coming off bench for last 15 . Mayo team has several over 30's still playing out of their skin !!

Great players as they were in their day, bringing up the Kernans, Mallon and Finn Mo is a ridiculous line of argument.

Trying to build a team for the future, not looking back into the past.

Rufus T Firefly

Quote from: JP on July 10, 2018, 11:00:26 AM
Quote from: Tim's Hero on July 10, 2018, 10:37:57 AM
Only adding to last Saturdays squad , add in Kernan's , Carragher from Cross , Andy Mallon , Finn Mo , all early 30's who still featuring with their clubs . Their experience would have made all the difference coming off bench for last 15 . Mayo team has several over 30's still playing out of their skin !!

Great players as they were in their day, bringing up the Kernans, Mallon and Finn Mo is a ridiculous line of argument. Trying to build a team for the future, not looking back into the past.

I'm not so sure JP. My understanding is that Geezer's management style alienated both Paddy Mo and Dennis Stevenson, both of whom could have played an important role on Saturday.

our_fella

Hughes
Hughes McKay Morgan
McCabe Donaghy Sheilds
Vernon Sheidan
Forker Grugan Grimley
Clarke Murnin Campbell

ONE CAN DREAM

Subs
E.Rafferty
Oneill
Ohanlon
Burns
Rowland
McQuillan
Mackin
Dyas

Tim’s Hero

Thats very silly Rufus ,ridicule all you like , but point still remains in analysis of last Saturdays game in the context of getting our strongest panel on the pitch ie the managers job we had lot of people who could have made a contribution sitting at home. Would any of aforementioned not given us a chance of winning rather than throwing in 2 inexperienced u20's (who got no league time) and a man who hasn't played in 4 years!!
Also note we are in year 4 of 5 year plan ,and now when the climax of Mcgeeneys masterclass should be in sight it's back to rebuilding !!

The Gs Man

Quote from: Rufus T Firefly on July 10, 2018, 11:08:09 AM
Quote from: JP on July 10, 2018, 11:00:26 AM
Quote from: Tim's Hero on July 10, 2018, 10:37:57 AM
Only adding to last Saturdays squad , add in Kernan's , Carragher from Cross , Andy Mallon , Finn Mo , all early 30's who still featuring with their clubs . Their experience would have made all the difference coming off bench for last 15 . Mayo team has several over 30's still playing out of their skin !!

Great players as they were in their day, bringing up the Kernans, Mallon and Finn Mo is a ridiculous line of argument. Trying to build a team for the future, not looking back into the past.

I'm not so sure JP. My understanding is that Geezer's management style alienated both Paddy Mo and Dennis Stevenson, both of whom could have played an important role on Saturday.

Not to mention how much we missed Benny Tierney's kick-outs.
Keep 'er lit

Rufus T Firefly

Quote from: Tim's Hero on July 10, 2018, 11:52:45 AM
Thats very silly Rufus ,ridicule all you like , but point still remains in analysis of last Saturdays game in the context of getting our strongest panel on the pitch ie the managers job we had lot of people who could have made a contribution sitting at home. Would any of aforementioned not given us a chance of winning rather than throwing in 2 inexperienced u20's (who got no league time) and a man who hasn't played in 4 years!!
Also note we are in year 4 of 5 year plan ,and now when the climax of Mcgeeneys masterclass should be in sight it's back to rebuilding !!

The fact that you castigate Geezer for the need to rebuild whilst at the same time bemoaning the loss of a number of retired players leaves you opens to ridicule. Unless of course you think these retired players can go on forever?

I'd also love to see a link to this (4 or) 5 year plan that you keep referring to.