Connacht Minor, U-20 and Junior championships 2020

Started by Farrandeelin, April 25, 2018, 08:59:26 PM

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Cunny Funt

#135
Quote from: Zulu on May 31, 2018, 02:34:31 PM
Think this is a very good rule.
Why am i not surprised you think that ::)

Quote from: Zulu on May 31, 2018, 02:34:31 PM

All underage inter county championships should be played in group formats, knockout is daft, and lads should be only able to play on one team.

Group formats is for the development of underage players 17 or under the more games the better for them. U20 is an adult grade and the next stepping stone to senior county level. U21 was a old fashion knock out competition and was ran very well and U20 was meant to be its replacement but we are left with a competition scheduled at daft time of year and played without a number of its better players which will hit the lesser counties the most and any U20 player looking to make the step up would prefer to challenge himself against the best players at this grade and supporters want to see the best U20 footballers going head to head also.

Zulu

#136
Because it's sensible perhaps?

U21 is not about development, are you serious?? This is the most important period of development for young lads. In the old format, a guy overage for minor could have 3 years at U21 level and play 3 championship games, 3 games in 3 years, yeah that's brilliant for development. Not to mention the majority of U21 squads would have got 2 championship games per year together before breaking up for 8 months at least.


Who cares what the fans want? I'm interested in the players. Give them games and if you want to go watch do, if you don't then don't. The timing of the U20 might need looked at due to exams but that's easily addressed. Playing U21 in the muck, when Sigerson and league was on was far from ideal.

This doesn't favour the stronger teams, Dublin would have had a choice to make over Con O'Callaghan last year. Sligo have a choice to make regarding some players, let them make that choice but if they choose to play U20 give them plenty of games to develop. We often threw young players in too early and then they had to play senior U21, club and often in two codes. This caused problems with club fixtures and lads being flogged. This is about addressing those problems and is the correct road to take.

Zulu

Quote from: magpie seanie on May 31, 2018, 02:40:17 PM
Quote from: Zulu on May 31, 2018, 02:34:31 PM
Think this is a very good rule. All underage inter county championships should be played in group formats, knockout is daft, and lads should be only able to play on one team. I find it amazing that lads complain about the club fixtures but then want lads to be able to play with multiple inter county teams. If a guy is good enough to play on both an U20 and senior team then pick one and go with it. IMO, if he is U20 it should be the U20 team and he should be guaranteed at least 5 championship games with them.

The rule will only ever impact counties with fewer playing resources. You'll rarely see an u-20 player getting game time with Dublin for example while we had 3 lads playing against London. I understand the thinking but the impact is not equitable.

I appreciate that but the problem in the GAA is that we have often not done the right think because of the minority situation which meant we fell between two stools.

Obviously, bigger counties might not face the problem of choosing as often but Kerry have Sean O'Se and Clifford this year (might be one or two more) but reducing the number of teams lads have to play for will help their development longterm. Sligo might have some short-term pain but it will be for longterm gain IMO.

Rossfan

Anyway the Connacht U20 Championship is knock out while Leinster is  groups.
Not sure what format the other 2 have.
Our senior sub goalie is u20 also.
Davy's given us a dream to cling to
We're going to bring home the SAM

Cunny Funt

Quote from: Zulu on May 31, 2018, 03:48:44 PM
Because it's sensible perhaps?
Getting rid of one well run tournament and replacing it with a poorly run and diluted one is not sensible


Quote from: Zulu on May 31, 2018, 03:48:44 PM

U21 is about development, are you serious?? This is the most important period of development for young lads. In the old format, a guy overage for minor could have 3 years at U21 level and play 3 championship games, 3 games in 3 years, yeah that's brilliant for development. Not to mention the majority of U21 squads would have got 2 championship games per year together before breaking up for 8 months at least.
I said 17 or under is about development. U21 grade 19,20,21 years old was adult grade where winning becomes more important than game time and anyway the majority of U21 players had more games with pre-season competitions which the U20s in Connacht don't have now




Quote from: Zulu on May 31, 2018, 03:48:44 PM
Who cares what the fans want? I'm interested in the players.
Fans spend alot of their hard earned cash traveling to see these games and are very loyal to their counties whatever the grade. A lot of fans that goes to these games are the parents and relations of the players and again they would prefer to see their players tested against the very best U20 footballers

Quote from: Zulu on May 31, 2018, 03:48:44 PM
This doesn't favour the stronger teams, Dublin would have had a choice to make over Con O'Callaghan last year. Sligo have a choice to make regarding some players, let them make that choice but if they choose to play U20 give them plenty of games to develop.
Dublin can cope with their pick likewise Kerry if they choose to play some of their U20s for the seniors this summer can Sligo? the point is having a well ran competition with the best of best U20s going head to head which can't have been the difficult to do.

Blowitupref

Quote from: Rossfan on May 31, 2018, 03:59:34 PM
Anyway the Connacht U20 Championship is knock out while Leinster is  groups.
Not sure what format the other 2 have.
Our senior sub goalie is u20 also.
Ulster is knock out also. Late August early September was probably the best time to play this competition and all U-20 footballers should be allowed to play for their counties.

As it stands most 18 year olds will be doing their leaving certs as will a few 19 years olds that have repeated and then you have some of best U20s not available for selection because they can't play both grades.  I can't even imagine how light that leaves the weaker counties and they will be forced to start lads that aren't up to this level at all.
Is the ref going to finally blow his whistle?... No, he's going to blow his nose

Zulu

That was a typo, 17 to 21 is the most important part of developing a player for adult. It is not about winning or shouldn't be and even if it is about winning how does a tournament that gives the vast majority of players 3-6 games in three years help anything? Pre-season games are fine but if you want to really develop players give them group games in the championship. No reason we can't have four groups of 8 so a minimum of 7 games against various opponents and you can still have your pre-season games.


From 17 to 21 lads should be playing football and fine tuning thier physical development, skills and decision making so that they are more prepared for the rigours of adult football.


If there are tweeks to be made to the U20 championship format then fine but it's nonsense to say the U21 was well run when the majority got one or two games and and it clashed with Sigerson and league and was played in poor weather.

Fans go to all types of games, nobody complains about school, club or regional competitions because their lads didin't beat the Dubs. If you want to see the best go to senior. Your entitled to your opinion on this but I wouldn't agree it should play any role in deciding our competition formats.

Of course it's difficult to have a competition with the best U20's if you want them also playing senior. The one thing all these discussions about formats prove is that it's extremely difficult to have players playing for multiple teams and still give games to the majority who don't have mulitple teams.



shark

Quote from: Blowitupref on May 31, 2018, 04:34:49 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 31, 2018, 03:59:34 PM
Anyway the Connacht U20 Championship is knock out while Leinster is  groups.
Not sure what format the other 2 have.
Our senior sub goalie is u20 also.
Ulster is knock out also. Late August early September was probably the best time to play this competition and all U-20 footballers should be allowed to play for their counties.

As it stands most 18 year olds will be doing their leaving certs as will a few 19 years olds that have repeated and then you have some of best U20s not available for selection because they can't play both grades.  I can't even imagine how light that leaves the weaker counties and they will be forced to start lads that aren't up to this level at all.

August and September? I hope you're joking. Have you heard of club championships?

Blowitupref

Quote from: shark on May 31, 2018, 04:50:28 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on May 31, 2018, 04:34:49 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 31, 2018, 03:59:34 PM
Anyway the Connacht U20 Championship is knock out while Leinster is  groups.
Not sure what format the other 2 have.
Our senior sub goalie is u20 also.
Ulster is knock out also. Late August early September was probably the best time to play this competition and all U-20 footballers should be allowed to play for their counties.

As it stands most 18 year olds will be doing their leaving certs as will a few 19 years olds that have repeated and then you have some of best U20s not available for selection because they can't play both grades.  I can't even imagine how light that leaves the weaker counties and they will be forced to start lads that aren't up to this level at all.

August and September? I hope you're joking. Have you heard of club championships?
Yes i have heard of club championships especially of daft scheduling of the club championships. First rounds played in April other rounds pushed back until late August early September, provincial championship played October,November and All Ireland final not played until March 17th.  In time that should be sorted along with playing this U20s competition at a more suitable time with its best players available for selection.
Is the ref going to finally blow his whistle?... No, he's going to blow his nose

Zulu

Why do the best players need to play? Lads get injured, refuse to play or go travelling yet we don't hold up competitions until they return. If a professional sports person can make their senior team they aren't expected to play underage and nobody complains. Why should we be different when those players already have club, county and probably university and some would have that for hurling as well?

The GAA have got this absolutely correct IMO. The format and the timing might need to be addressed but we definitely need to end the concept of players playing with multiple teams.

Syferus

Quote from: Zulu on May 31, 2018, 05:45:17 PM
Why do the best players need to play? Lads get injured, refuse to play or go travelling yet we don't hold up competitions until they return. If a professional sports person can make their senior team they aren't expected to play underage and nobody complains. Why should we be different when those players already have club, county and probably university and some would have that for hurling as well?

The GAA have got this absolutely correct IMO. The format and the timing might need to be addressed but we definitely need to end the concept of players playing with multiple teams.

Zulu in lala land on things that benefit (or hurt less) big counties. Imagine that.

Blowitupref

#146
Quote from: Zulu on May 31, 2018, 05:45:17 PM
Why do the best players need to play? Lads get injured, refuse to play or go travelling yet we don't hold up competitions until they return. If a professional sports person can make their senior team they aren't expected to play underage and nobody complains. Why should we be different when those players already have club, county and probably university and some would have that for hurling as well?

The GAA have got this absolutely correct IMO. The format and the timing might need to be addressed but we definitely need to end the concept of players playing with multiple teams.

Because it will become more like a pre-season competition than a championship without its best players. Dublin like to flex their muscles but this isn't a professional sports game and we shouldn't have a situation which penalises the smaller counties very heavily.

Weaker counties can have a decent starting 15 and challenge for a provincial title but take away 2 or 3 of their better players and they will struggle to win any game in their province. Training on multiple teams is what was needed to be addressed not playing on multiple teams especially on U20 Connacht championship team that is knock football and could be just one game.
Is the ref going to finally blow his whistle?... No, he's going to blow his nose

shark

Quote from: Blowitupref on May 31, 2018, 05:31:47 PM
Quote from: shark on May 31, 2018, 04:50:28 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on May 31, 2018, 04:34:49 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on May 31, 2018, 03:59:34 PM
Anyway the Connacht U20 Championship is knock out while Leinster is  groups.
Not sure what format the other 2 have.
Our senior sub goalie is u20 also.
Ulster is knock out also. Late August early September was probably the best time to play this competition and all U-20 footballers should be allowed to play for their counties.

As it stands most 18 year olds will be doing their leaving certs as will a few 19 years olds that have repeated and then you have some of best U20s not available for selection because they can't play both grades.  I can't even imagine how light that leaves the weaker counties and they will be forced to start lads that aren't up to this level at all.

August and September? I hope you're joking. Have you heard of club championships?
Yes i have heard of club championships especially of daft scheduling of the club championships. First rounds played in April other rounds pushed back until late August early September, provincial championship played October,November and All Ireland final not played until March 17th.  In time that should be sorted along with playing this U20s competition at a more suitable time with its best players available for selection.

All for these things being sorted or course. But putting U20 on top of club championships busiest months would make things worse for the majority of players.

Rossfan

This championship and its rules were voted in by Congress.
Davy's given us a dream to cling to
We're going to bring home the SAM

Syferus