British State Collusion

[balladmaker]

My wife lost two, one from each side of the conflict.

So you should know as well as anyone that a comment such as

So forget the past and move on.

is not acceptable in such circumstances.

So the report says members of the RUC colluded, but the RUC had no advance knowledge of the Loughinisland murders ... go figure.

When will we see an enquiry into the murder of Dennis Carville outside of Lurgan, or the murder of Katrina Rennie, Eileen Duffy and Brian Frizzell in the Craigavon sweet shop ... plus the many, many more murders where RUC collusion is widely suspected. 

The whole thing is rotten to the core!

[BennyCake]

Tip of the iceberg.

Now, for the truth on the hundreds of other cases.

[T Fearon]

Silence of the freestate government deafening.Mustnt upset their British mates.

[Orior]

My wife lost two, one from each side of the conflict.

So you should know as well as anyone that a comment such as

So forget the past and move on.

is not acceptable in such circumstances.

So the report says members of the RUC colluded, but the RUC had no advance knowledge of the Loughinisland murders ... go figure.

When will we see an enquiry into the murder of Dennis Carville outside of Lurgan, or the murder of Katrina Rennie, Eileen Duffy and Brian Frizzell in the Craigavon sweet shop ... plus the many, many more murders where RUC collusion is widely suspected. 

The whole thing is rotten to the core!

Yes, rotten to the core but disagree with all these enquiries. It does not solve anything and creates more division.

[BennyCake]

Silence of the freestate government deafening.Mustnt upset their British mates.

What else would you expect from a shower of arse-lickers?

[brokencrossbar1]

The problem with Inquiries is that they become political footballs and them and us becomes the problem. Who deserves one? Should there be one if someone was found guilty? Should there be one for all cases involving alleged collusion? Should there be a 'Truth' forum similar to what happened in South Africa?  Will a government allow itself to be opened up in public or will they invoke national security or the like to provide a stumbling block?

I personally believe that there should be a forum. This in itself holds many pitfalls as people will want prosecutions but only way to have full cooperation is to have no prosecutions. That will be very difficult to attain. For now it's clear to see that there was endemic collusion at many different levels. The next step in all these cases is vital.

[BennyCake]

Isn't the Brits obliged to carry out inquiries into these collusion cases/miscarriage of justice etc under some European Commission law, or some old shite like that?

[ashman]

Silence of the freestate government deafening.Mustnt upset their British mates.

What should they do Should then not consider it and raise in appropriate forum ?? If any .

I have no truck for the government . 

Surely if this is such a big issue ( and it bloody is) Sinn Fein would pull out of Northern Executive until there is a full investigation The scum who colluded with loyalist death squads should be fully investigated and face prosecution .

Over to you .  Unfortunately down here there is no votes or political capital from the north any more .

[Tony Baloney]

Collusion hardly surprising but don't be expecting any prosecutions. Do we really want to still be having enquiries for another 20 years because that is where all this is leading. The legal profession are the people who gain most.

[SkillfulBill]

The problem with Inquiries is that they become political footballs and them and us becomes the problem. Who deserves one? Should there be one if someone was found guilty? Should there be one for all cases involving alleged collusion? Should there be a 'Truth' forum similar to what happened in South Africa?  Will a government allow itself to be opened up in public or will they invoke national security or the like to provide a stumbling block?

I personally believe that there should be a forum. This in itself holds many pitfalls as people will want prosecutions but only way to have full cooperation is to have no prosecutions. That will be very difficult to attain. For now it's clear to see that there was endemic collusion at many different levels. The next step in all these cases is vital.

When you have state involvement in the murder of citizens then inquiries are not only justified but also a BASIC element of democracy. Collusion and the use of informants were rampant and it does not just stop at deaths as a result of loyalists activities. The State has been directly and indirectly involved in many many murders. How many people died as a result of this we can only guess at. Rotten to the core.

[ashman]

A similar case is the GAL in the Spanish governments war v ETA.  Although the targets in Northern Ireland had a much higher number of civilian targets (not collateral damage as they often say) .  A number of low and medium level handlers .  Never went to the top when the real puppet masters were.

[BennyCake]

The problem with Inquiries is that they become political footballs and them and us becomes the problem. Who deserves one? Should there be one if someone was found guilty? Should there be one for all cases involving alleged collusion? Should there be a 'Truth' forum similar to what happened in South Africa?  Will a government allow itself to be opened up in public or will they invoke national security or the like to provide a stumbling block?

I personally believe that there should be a forum. This in itself holds many pitfalls as people will want prosecutions but only way to have full cooperation is to have no prosecutions. That will be very difficult to attain. For now it's clear to see that there was endemic collusion at many different levels. The next step in all these cases is vital.

When you have state involvement in the murder of citizens then inquiries are not only justified but also a BASIC element of democracy. Collusion and the use of informants were rampant and it does not just stop at deaths as a result of loyalists activities. The State has been directly and indirectly involved in many many murders. How many people died as a result of this we can only guess at. Rotten to the core.

Agreed.

[ashman]

Collusion hardly surprising but don't be expecting any prosecutions. Do we really want to still be having enquiries for another 20 years because that is where all this is leading. The legal profession are the people who gain most.

An ombudsman report and obtaining prosecutions are two different kettles of fish.

The burden of proof is huge .

At this stage surely the old "it's a honey pot for the legal profession " argument should not be a factor in assessing the importance of establishing the truth.  As an aside in modern Europe the scandalous fees charged by the legal profession must be tackled and the market should have a role.

[SkillfulBill]

Collusion hardly surprising but don't be expecting any prosecutions. Do we really want to still be having enquiries for another 20 years because that is where all this is leading. The legal profession are the people who gain most.

An ombudsman report and obtaining prosecutions are two different kettles of fish.

The burden of proof is huge .

At this stage surely the old "it's a honey pot for the legal profession " argument should not be a factor in assessing the importance of establishing the truth.  As an aside in modern Europe the scandalous fees charged by the legal profession must be tackled and the market should have a role.

Legal cost are not relevant in this. What cost the truth ?

[johnneycool]

Collusion hardly surprising but don't be expecting any prosecutions. Do we really want to still be having enquiries for another 20 years because that is where all this is leading. The legal profession are the people who gain most.

An ombudsman report and obtaining prosecutions are two different kettles of fish.

The burden of proof is huge .

At this stage surely the old "it's a honey pot for the legal profession " argument should not be a factor in assessing the importance of establishing the truth.  As an aside in modern Europe the scandalous fees charged by the legal profession must be tackled and the market should have a role.

Legal cost are not relevant in this. What cost the truth ?

We're seeing time and time again institutionalised collusion from the RUC and British forces where if they weren't actually involved they were turning a blind eye and then not investigating properly, to willfully destroying evidence to prevent justice being served, surely its time a lot of these honours bestowed on the RUC were removed in disgrace if only to show the Unionists that the moral high ground that they hold in terms of what happened during the last 40 years is very shaky and the violence was not solely the republican/nationalists causing it.