British State Collusion

[orangeman]

As expected -


A review of the murder into solicitor Pat Finucane concludes that were was "no overarching state conspiracy", the Prime Minister David Cameron has said.

But Mr Cameron said the report by lawyer Desmond de Silva confirmed that agents of the state were involved in the 1989 killing and that it should have been prevented.

Mr Finucane was shot dead by loyalists at his north Belfast home.

It was one of the most controversial killings of the Troubles.

Last year, Mr Cameron acknowledged there was state collusion in Mr Finucane's murder and apologised to his family.

Sir Desmond de Silva QC carried out the review at the government's request. The Finucanes want a public inquiry as they feared the full truth would not emerge.

[LeoMc]

Don't see anything there not known or at least suspected.

Prime Minister David Cameron said the level of state collusion uncovered by the report was "shocking"  to whom?

The review found RUC officers proposed Mr Finucane, 39, be killed, said they passed information to his killers and failed to stop the attack and then obstructed the murder investigation.Even the RUC Inspector who investigated the murder has been claiming that

MI5 helped spread propaganda against Mr Finucane in the years before he was killed.

85% of the UDA's 'intelligence' originated from sources within the security forces".Well they have no intelligence of their own

Mr Cameron was strongly critical of the RUC and Army for their conduct in relation to the killing.

"ministers were misled". Mr Cameron added that the report found "no evidence whatsoever that any government minister had fore-knowledge of Mr Finucane's murder"Wink wink, Need to know old boy, best you don't know the details. Pass the port there.

[Franko]

The review found RUC officers proposed Mr Finucane, 39, be killed, said they passed information to his killers and failed to stop the attack and then obstructed the murder investigation.

Fairly important piece of info for the BBC to bury half-way through the article.

[Orior]

Basically, the British got away with murder.

[deiseach]

Following the debate in the House of Commons is a dispiriting experience. Everyone admits it's awful, but it only emphasises how wonderful everyone else in the RUC and the British Army were. The idea that the security forces were rotten to the core is too appalling a vista to contemplate.

[Ulick]

Over to you Taoiseach.

[orangeman]

The level of state collusion uncovered by a report into the murder of Belfast solicitor Pat Finucane is "shocking", Prime Minister David Cameron has said.

But not overarching.


How shocking does it need to be ?

[omagh_gael]

What's with all this pathetic invocation of EG? Is this a variant of the "going out of your way to be offended" syndrome, whereby you go out of your way to find someone likely to have a different viewpoint to yourself (but only on occasions when you sense a potential opportunity to gloat and never on occasions when the shoe might be on the other foot)?

Or is it just another form of coat trailing/marching where you're not wanted, whereby a perceived victory (though that in itself is a pathetic view of the current situation) is worthless unless you can flaunt it before your perceived
enemy?

Whilst I agree with you highlighting this point in general, particularly over in the flag thread, I believe EG's views on this extremely  emotive  subject should be questioned here. He has dragged Pat Finucane's name through the mud on countless occasions and past evidence and today's evidence cements the notion that, at times, he does not simply post here to provide a unionist critique of our discussions but rather to inflame and insult the memory of a dead man.

[Fear Bun Na Sceilpe]

The only thing that surprises me is that the murder of Pat Finucane has eventually been officially recognised, everything else was known years ago.

[LeoMc]

What's with all this pathetic invocation of EG? Is this a variant of the "going out of your way to be offended" syndrome, whereby you go out of your way to find someone likely to have a different viewpoint to yourself (but only on occasions when you sense a potential opportunity to gloat and never on occasions when the shoe might be on the other foot)?

Or is it just another form of coat trailing/marching where you're not wanted, whereby a perceived victory (though that in itself is a pathetic view of the current situation) is worthless unless you can flaunt it before your perceived
enemy?

Whilst I agree with you highlighting this point in general, particularly over in the flag thread, I believe EG's views on this extremely  emotive  subject should be questioned here. He has dragged Pat Finucane's name through the mud on countless occasions and past evidence and today's evidence cements the notion that, at times, he does not simply post here to provide a unionist critique of our discussions but rather to inflame and insult the memory of a dead man.

He stood up and condemned the flag protests. It is time he apologised for his views on PF.

[Main Street]

What's with all this pathetic invocation of EG? Is this a variant of the "going out of your way to be offended" syndrome, whereby you go out of your way to find someone likely to have a different viewpoint to yourself (but only on occasions when you sense a potential opportunity to gloat and never on occasions when the shoe might be on the other foot)?

Or is it just another form of coat trailing/marching where you're not wanted, whereby a perceived victory (though that in itself is a pathetic view of the current situation) is worthless unless you can flaunt it before your perceived enemy?

Personally I'm not bothered what the pretentious windbag has to offer on this particular thread, after his claim that whilst condemning the murder, he had no problem with accepting 100% that Finucane was a despicable  human creature, worse in his opinion than the IRA gunmen/bombers.
An opinion which most probably is derived from his injudicious unlimited appetite to swallow unsubstantiated nonsense wholesale,  such as the vague testimony of a tout as well as the state sanctioned campaign of propaganda&lies about Finucane, sustained for years before his murder.

[Nally Stand]

Listening to David Cameron today would turn the stomach. Speaking about how "shocking" it was to hear of collusion being a factor! And that to bring peace on, "one of the things this government can do to help is to face up honestly when things have gone wrong in the past. If we as a country want to uphold democracy and the rule of law then we must be prepared to be judged by the highest standards. And we must also face up fully when we fall short. In showing once again that we are not afraid to do that." This is the same David Cameron who refuses a public inquiry and allowed this review based on nothing more than trusting MI5 etc to hand over all it's files. This is also the same David Cameron who spouted (along with the likes of An Taoiseach) about these two islands moving forward together in mutual respect etc etc after the royal visit to Dublin, but who's government the day after the visit ended, refused an Irish Government request to hand over it's files on the Dublin/Monaghan bombings. Hardly what I'd call "facing up honestly", Dave. I suppose in the spirit of this new found honesty, David's government will maybe release the rest of the Steven's report findings? As I mentioned on here before, when the final Stevens Report was completed, it ran to 3,000 pages. The British Government have only released just 22 (heavily censored) pages.

When loyalists murdered people in their homes, witnesses often reported that they had broken in and walked straight to the bedrooms of their victims, already knowing the house layout. I once recall seeing the "security" forces sketch my home's layout as a simple means of intimidation; but this tactic of intimidation by an implied threat was widespread. It gives an idea of the extent to which collusion was so very deeply rooted and makes you wonder how the full truth of it ever could all come out. Experiences like that, and days like today, also make me all the more amazed at some people, such as a certain mayo clown on this board, who's knowledge of what life was like here extended to expressing the view that in those times, people who were being subjected to security force intimidation just "should have reported it to the police".

[heganboy]

whats with all the vitriol with EG? Surely he's as entitled as any of the rest of the posters on this board to express his views and opinions. In fact he's a welcome counterpoint in these discussions. If you don't want to hear a different point of view from your own, don't post on a discussion board, or if you do, don't read the replies.

Last I checked there are a significant number of people with a similar opinion to EG, and more to the point he recognises that there are a significant number of people with a different perspective to him (on this board) and he is willing to engage and discuss. You might even learn something...

[Ulick]

whats with all the vitriol with EG? Surely he's as entitled as any of the rest of the posters on this board to express his views and opinions. In fact he's a welcome counterpoint in these discussions. If you don't want to hear a different point of view from your own, don't post on a discussion board, or if you do, don't read the replies.

Last I checked there are a significant number of people with a similar opinion to EG, and more to the point he recognises that there are a significant number of people with a different perspective to him (on this board) and he is willing to engage and discuss. You might even learn something...

Purporting the lies that got Finucane murdered in the first place, despite Stevens, the PSNI and now this report saying he wasn't a member of the IRA.

[heganboy]

even Mr Cameron explained this morning that there was a campaign of disinformation ref Mr Finucane, you can't blame someone for trusting their sources. Again he's willing to come and discuss which I think is a very welcome addition to the forum...