British State Collusion

[ardal]

Maybe I read it wrong, but wasn't he in the cages with the IRA members back in the 70's?

[Minder]

Maybe I read it wrong, but wasn't he in the cages with the IRA members back in the 70's?

I asked someone tonight if he was in the RA and he screwed his face up and said he "was RA" but he wasn't in it !!!

[Minder]

Maybe I read it wrong, but wasn't he in the cages with the IRA members back in the 70's?

I asked someone tonight if he was in the RA and he screwed his face up and said he "was RA" but he wasn't in it !!!

Guilty as charged, obviously.

To put it into context, Minder was told this by his wife's cousin who had no involvement in republicanism and has drank his dole since 1987.

Did you read the post? How can you be "guilty as charged" if you aren't in something ? And your "context" is way out, but it was a nice effort.

[sammymaguire]

Is this a debate on British State Collusion? I have missed 6 pages and cannot be arsed going back reading them. That's possibly the reason I messed up my English A-Level, you can't skim read Chaucer or Shakespeare and expect to get away with it.

[Myles Na G.]

Well Jim, if it's O'Callaghan's accusation you are prepared to accept at face value, I would just remind you that there is plenty of evidence to illustrate that particular individual's fondness for compulsive lying.

Since you're on the subject of compulsive liars anyway, maybe you'll answer the question I asked you: do you think Gerry Adams was in the IRA?

apologies for jumping in.
no the slithery hoor wasnt!
thats why I dont like him!

Thanks for that, at least you're not afraid to express an opinion on the matter. Nally Stand seems keen not to, on the other hand. He's happy to express an opinion on whether or not Pat Finucane was an IRA man, but is a bit coy about Gerry. Why would that be?

[muppet]

Well Jim, if it's O'Callaghan's accusation you are prepared to accept at face value, I would just remind you that there is plenty of evidence to illustrate that particular individual's fondness for compulsive lying.

Since you're on the subject of compulsive liars anyway, maybe you'll answer the question I asked you: do you think Gerry Adams was in the IRA?

apologies for jumping in.
no the slithery hoor wasnt!
thats why I dont like him!

Thanks for that, at least you're not afraid to express an opinion on the matter. Nally Stand seems keen not to, on the other hand. He's happy to express an opinion on whether or not Pat Finucane was an IRA man, but is a bit coy about Gerry. Why would that be?

Because he hasn't gone away you know.

[Franko]

Well Jim, if it's O'Callaghan's accusation you are prepared to accept at face value, I would just remind you that there is plenty of evidence to illustrate that particular individual's fondness for compulsive lying.

Since you're on the subject of compulsive liars anyway, maybe you'll answer the question I asked you: do you think Gerry Adams was in the IRA?

apologies for jumping in.
no the slithery hoor wasnt!
thats why I dont like him!

Thanks for that, at least you're not afraid to express an opinion on the matter. Nally Stand seems keen not to, on the other hand. He's happy to express an opinion on whether or not Pat Finucane
was an IRA man, but is a bit coy about Gerry. Why would that be?

How about you answer a few of the questions you were asked instead of pontificating about others.

[Myles Na G.]

Well Jim, if it's O'Callaghan's accusation you are prepared to accept at face value, I would just remind you that there is plenty of evidence to illustrate that particular individual's fondness for compulsive lying.

Since you're on the subject of compulsive liars anyway, maybe you'll answer the question I asked you: do you think Gerry Adams was in the IRA?

apologies for jumping in.
no the slithery hoor wasnt!
thats why I dont like him!

Thanks for that, at least you're not afraid to express an opinion on the matter. Nally Stand seems keen not to, on the other hand. He's happy to express an opinion on whether or not Pat Finucane
was an IRA man, but is a bit coy about Gerry. Why would that be?

How about you answer a few of the questions you were asked instead of pontificating about others.

Happy to oblige. Point them out.

[deiseach]

Nally Stand seems keen not to, on the other hand. He's happy to express an opinion on whether or not Pat Finucane was an IRA man, but is a bit coy about Gerry. Why would that be?

Let me get your reasoning straight. If Nally Stand believes that Pat Finucane was not in the IRA, he must therefore believe that Gerry Adams was not in the IRA. This is because both have been accused of being in the IRA and this has been denied in both cases. Have I got that right?

[Main Street]

Maybe I read it wrong, but wasn't he in the cages with the IRA members back in the 70's?

I asked someone tonight if he was in the RA and he screwed his face up and said he "was RA" but he wasn't in it !!!

Guilty as charged, obviously.

To put it into context, Minder was told this by his wife's cousin who had no involvement in republicanism and has drank his dole since 1987.

Did you read the post? How can you be "guilty as charged" if you aren't in something ? And your "context" is way out, but it was a nice effort.

I agree,, ---- based on your criteria for what passes as evidence,  how can Pat be guilty as charged?

[Myles Na G.]

Nally Stand seems keen not to, on the other hand. He's happy to express an opinion on whether or not Pat Finucane was an IRA man, but is a bit coy about Gerry. Why would that be?

Let me get your reasoning straight. If Nally Stand believes that Pat Finucane was not in the IRA, he must therefore believe that Gerry Adams was not in the IRA. This is because both have been accused of being in the IRA and this has been denied in both cases. Have I got that right?

Nally Stand believes that Pat Finucane wasn't in the IRA on the basis that the RUC was unable to find any evidence that says he was. Nally Stand maintains that people like Sean O'Callaghan are not to be believed. I'm curious to know his views on Adams, given that the RUC / British Army were unable to find enough evidence throughout the 70s and 80s to convict him of IRA membership. I'm also curious to know what he thinks about people like Marian Price, who maintains that Adams was her commanding officer.

[Nally Stand]

Nally Stand seems keen not to, on the other hand. He's happy to express an opinion on whether or not Pat Finucane was an IRA man, but is a bit coy about Gerry. Why would that be?

Let me get your reasoning straight. If Nally Stand believes that Pat Finucane was not in the IRA, he must therefore believe that Gerry Adams was not in the IRA. This is because both have been accused of being in the IRA and this has been denied in both cases. Have I got that right?

Nally Stand believes that Pat Finucane wasn't in the IRA on the basis that the RUC was unable to find any evidence that says he was. Nally Stand maintains that people like Sean O'Callaghan are not to be believed. I'm curious to know his views on Adams, given that the RUC / British Army were unable to find enough evidence throughout the 70s and 80s to convict him of IRA membership. I'm also curious to know what he thinks about people like Marian Price, who maintains that Adams was her commanding officer.

Jaysus Myles you do go on. I had the intention of avoiding responding to you further on this thread because on a thread about something as serious as collusion, and in the week that's in it, you persist in making groundless accusations passed off as fact about Pat Finucane and as such are not someone I have any interest in discussing things with. As for my opinion on Gerry Adams, a quick search of my posts on other threads should answer your questions. Good riddance you lowlife.

[Myles Na G.]

Nally Stand seems keen not to, on the other hand. He's happy to express an opinion on whether or not Pat Finucane was an IRA man, but is a bit coy about Gerry. Why would that be?

Let me get your reasoning straight. If Nally Stand believes that Pat Finucane was not in the IRA, he must therefore believe that Gerry Adams was not in the IRA. This is because both have been accused of being in the IRA and this has been denied in both cases. Have I got that right?

Nally Stand believes that Pat Finucane wasn't in the IRA on the basis that the RUC was unable to find any evidence that says he was. Nally Stand maintains that people like Sean O'Callaghan are not to be believed. I'm curious to know his views on Adams, given that the RUC / British Army were unable to find enough evidence throughout the 70s and 80s to convict him of IRA membership. I'm also curious to know what he thinks about people like Marian Price, who maintains that Adams was her commanding officer.

Jaysus Myles you do go on. I had the intention of avoiding responding to you further on this thread because on a thread about something as serious as collusion, and in the week that's in it, you persist in making groundless accusations passed off as fact about Pat Finucane and as such are not someone I have any interest in discussing things with. As for my opinion on Gerry Adams, a quick search of my posts on other threads should answer your questions. Good riddance you lowlife.

Yeah, like I'm going to trawl through your back catalogue looking for any references you may or may not have made to Gerry Adams.  I'm sure that somewhere in the midst of that huge body of work you've also given your opinion on collusion, informers, state killings, etc etc, yet you still found the time on this thread to stamp over old ground. On this one issue, however, you're ducking and diving and weaving and bobbing. I strongly suspect that it's because you're smart enough to realise that the answer you give would expose the double standards and hypocrisy of your arguments about Pat Finucance.   

[Franko]

He was an IRA man, he got shot, get over it.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/personal-view/3590237/Finucane-should-not-have-been-killed-but-he-was-in-the-IRA.html

OK, and if the British "security forces" (to an unknown level) set up this shooting, you would agree that they then become fair game also?

Starter for 10

[Myles Na G.]

He was an IRA man, he got shot, get over it.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/personal-view/3590237/Finucane-should-not-have-been-killed-but-he-was-in-the-IRA.html

OK, and if the British "security forces" (to an unknown level) set up this shooting, you would agree that they then become fair game also?

Starter for 10

I don't like that 'also' at the end of the question. I haven't been arguing that Finucane was 'fair game' and that he therefore deserved to be murdered. I've never believed in the republican concept of 'legitimate targets'. What I've been arguing against is the veneration of the man, to the extent that you'd think he was Mother Theresa or Nelson Mandela. He was, in the opinion of many, a man who abused his position as a lawyer to aid an organisation which was waging a violent conflict against the state and many of its citizens. That didn't warrant his murder, but nor does it warrant his beatification. The other thing I've been arguing about is the double standards of Irish republicans, who urge everyone else to let go of the past, to move on and embrace the future, yet refuse to do the same themselves in cases like this. Finucane's death was no greater a tragedy than the deaths of many, many others. Other people have had to cope with their pain and, in some cases - like the Travers family, for example - look on as the killer or killers of their loved one take on high profile positions within the government of the 6 counties. And, in the case of the Travers family, their daughter was not active in the conflict. If SF and republicans expect families like the Travers to 'get over' their loss, then it is not unreasonable to expect the same of them.