Tyrone v Roscommon Say 14th July at 5pm - Football chat ONLY

[shark]

Whatever happened to Donie Shine?

New managers come in. They get rid of a few of the stars from the previous regime under the ruse of giving youth a chance. Carr, Maughan, McStay, all guilty in this regard. We have such a huge pick in Ros, it makes it easy for them. That last line is sarcastic cos you never know with a few of ours.

Army officers  are not good amateur sport managers.
Most GAA activists I've talked to today reckon McStay is a busted flush and has been found out.
No defensive organisation,  terrible fitness, strength and conditioning levels, random team selections -one buck reckons we pick names out of 1 hat and jersey numbers out of another hat.
That sort of stuff can happen in year 1 of any regime but by year 3 you expect those type of things to be sorted out.
We may be no world beaters but fck it you expect management to have some kind of pattern and organisation to make the team better after 3 years.

As an outsider looking in, Roscommon are better after those 3 years. Ye won Connacht last year. That doesn't happen all that often. There is a massive gap to the top from where ye are, but I don't see that being bridged under any manager. No matter what their profession is.

(clever use of Army instead of Defence Forces by the way. Wonder why you did that?)

I know the gaa is all progressive and inclusive these days but I think we're a bit away from having British army officers managing county teams.

I think you missed my point. Or else I've missed yours. Or both.
My point was, Rossfan avoided saying Defence Forces Officers are not good amateur sport managers as he would then have included Jim Gavin (Air Corps rather than Army), which would ruin his point.

[manfromdelmonte]

Too much analysis of McStay and co here when they have two matches to go.

[BennyHarp]

Too much analysis of McStay and co here when they have two matches to go.

I would say it's fair enough to analyse the performance of a management team that has just seen its team concede 4-24.

[Paudi Meehan]

Tyrone stepped up a couple of gears yesterday but the Rossies were woejus. I presume the VCR was broken this week and McStay and co never got a chance to get a look at Tyrone playing?

[Syferus]

I'm told by those in the know he hasn't much time for S&C.
Nor defensive organisation either.
I am not aware of the team having S&C or defence gurus.
Anyway we're technically still in the race for a semi final spot so all is not lost yet  we're the least likely of the 8 to make it.

Shark - I see your point  but I was just thinking of our history of army bucks. Even poor Dermot didn't do very well.

Someone would want to tell the man we're paying to be the S&C coach he has no time for it. Would you ever stop talking out of your arse?

[theyellowbus]

I'm told by those in the know he hasn't much time for S&C.
Nor defensive organisation either.
I am not aware of the team having S&C or defence gurus.
Anyway we're technically still in the race for a semi final spot so all is not lost yet  we're the least likely of the 8 to make it.

Shark - I see your point  but I was just thinking of our history of army bucks. Even poor Dermot didn't do very well.

Someone would want to tell the man we're paying to be the S&C coach he has no time for it. Would you ever stop talking out of your arse?

Someone would want to tell the S+C coach how do his job or else get rid of him and stop wasting money.

[Rossfan]

I'm told by those in the know he hasn't much time for S&C.
Nor defensive organisation either.
I am not aware of the team having S&C or defence gurus.
Anyway we're technically still in the race for a semi final spot so all is not lost yet  we're the least likely of the 8 to make it.

Shark - I see your point  but I was just thinking of our history of army bucks. Even poor Dermot didn't do very well.

Someone would want to tell the man we're paying to be the S&C coach he has no time for it. Would you ever stop talking out of your arse?

Someone would want to tell the S+C coach how do his job or else get rid of him and stop wasting money.

.+100.

[trueblue1234]

To be fair conditioning can take time. How long is the S&C guy in place?

[PadraicHenryPearse]

Niall Daly missed last year and been injured this year.
Conor Daly missed last 2/3
Peter dom missed last 4/5
Cathal Cregg missed last year.
Compton always injured.
Fintan Cregg, brian and Ronan stack have been injured this year.
Niall mc missed part of the league.
I think John Mac & O'Rourke missed start of the league with injury (could be wrong)
Enda was sick in Oz.
Both Lennon's currently injured.

Players uninjured or available  most of the year I think.

Murtagh x2
Murray
Donie Smith
Lavin
Kilroy
Patterson
F Cregg

Doesn't help s&c when so many unavailable  for so long

[theyellowbus]

To be fair conditioning can take time. How long is the S&C guy in place?

Exactly.
Look at Dublin,Mayo,Donegal,Tyrone even Monaghan they are superbly fit and strong.
When Mayo were at their peak i would safely say their S&C was the best in the country.It took a number of years to get it up to that and an awful amount of work.
Look at Tyrone on Saturday i would say they are even fitter and stronger from last year.It may not be this year but i guarantee they will be in all Ireland final in  the next two/three years.
S+C isn't just handing out exercise plans and getting lads doing them individually which from what i understand is a lot of what our lads were doing earlier in the year.
Its an ongoing process and to get the best results is done collectively and in a proper environment with proper progress analysis.

[seafoid]

To be fair conditioning can take time. How long is the S&C guy in place?

Exactly.
Look at Dublin,Mayo,Donegal,Tyrone even Monaghan they are superbly fit and strong.
When Mayo were at their peak i would safely say their S&C was the best in the country.It took a number of years to get it up to that and an awful amount of work.
Look at Tyrone on Saturday i would say they are even fitter and stronger from last year.It may not be this year but i guarantee they will be in all Ireland final in  the next two/three years.
S+C isn't just handing out exercise plans and getting lads doing them individually which from what i understand is a lot of what our lads were doing earlier in the year.
Its an ongoing process and to get the best results is done collectively and in a proper environment with proper progress analysis.

Fitness alone is not enough. A Mr McGeeney in Armagh with work experience in Kildare has more details
You need fitness + skill + teamwork + scoring forwards. The best teams can play any system.

[Oldira]

Anyone would think Roscommon were an arrogant group the abuse being fired at them and their supporters? What have we ever done to Tyrone? I massively admire Tyrone they way they have come from being a minnow to now giants of football in the past two decades.
Tyrone were just in a different class to Roscommon on Saturday. Roscommosn S & C was dire compared to Tyrone but that is not a new problem. In 2016 Roscommon on 4 of there first 5 league games and then ran into Mayo who swatted them away. It was clear that day that Roscommon were much physically weaker than Mayo. Two years later the same is true. But what is worse is that we are no way near the fitness required to be a top tier team. That was obvious in the Connacht Final where or players totally ran out of steam near the end. An issue though is finance. Roscommon have very little money and their financial affairs are ran by Croke Park. If McStay demanded 100k more for S&C, fitness coaches and statisticians he would be refused.  Thats not an excuse just a fact.
What is really disappointing for supporters is the way we thre in the towel and shipped a catastrophic beating. Same as against Mayo last year. That is inexcusable. Fans do deserve better than that. Hard to explain how we ran Galway so close and then produced a display like that. After our match I felt that Galway could be destroyed by Kerry but the opposite happenned.
While I did think Tyrone looked awesome and they are well set up to reach the semis I would caution on what happenned last year. Destroyed Armagh in Q/F but then surrendered meekly to Dublin and were lucky to lose by only 12 points. So not so sure why Tyrone can laugh at our beating when they themselves were victims of a similar one 11 months ago.

[Rossfan]

We have  the former Connacht GAA S&C officer on our panel.
Couldn't we have asked him to draw up a programme?

[Fuzzman]

Well said Old IRA

We were hammering everyone last year until we believed our own hype around maybe beating the Dubs and the same is happening now since Sat when the Dubs looked a TAD off colour and Donegal showed they can be rattled.
I've loads of Dubs onto me today saying they're very worried that Omagh will be a cauldron and that even if they lose they'll get revenge in the final

Nonsense talk as we're not anywhere near that level in my eyes
I did however believe we would beat the Rossies and couldn't really understand all the fuss about ye. Sorry if that sounds arrogant but its what I truly believed and got slated for speaking my mind.

I am happy to admit I got it VERY wrong about Galway though and never in a 100 years (or was it 65 years) thought they would beat Kerry. Just shows those who don't believe this talk about systems that if you are set up well and work hard and believe in yourselves what can be achieved

I'm curious now does anyone who said last week that Tyrone are not improving week after week and indeed it does look like their training was scheduled to have the team at "peak fitness for July and August" rather than worrying about a first round game in May.
Maybe that's what happened Kerry yesterday that they were not ready for that level of intensity so early in the summer

[seafoid]

Well said Old IRA

We were hammering everyone last year until we believed our own hype around maybe beating the Dubs and the same is happening now since Sat when the Dubs looked a TAD off colour and Donegal showed they can be rattled.
I've loads of Dubs onto me today saying they're very worried that Omagh will be a cauldron and that even if they lose they'll get revenge in the final

Nonsense talk as we're not anywhere near that level in my eyes
I did however believe we would beat the Rossies and couldn't really understand all the fuss about ye. Sorry if that sounds arrogant but its what I truly believed and got slated for speaking my mind.

I am happy to admit I got it VERY wrong about Galway though and never in a 100 years (or was it 65 years) thought they would beat Kerry. Just shows those who don't believe this talk about systems that if you are set up well and work hard and believe in yourselves what can be achieved

I'm curious now does anyone who said last week that Tyrone are not improving week after week and indeed it does look like their training was scheduled to have the team at "peak fitness for July and August" rather than worrying about a first round game in May.
Maybe that's what happened Kerry yesterday that they were not ready for that level of intensity so early in the summer

I think Kerry havé deeper problems. Very like Kilkenny.
But they deserve no sympathy cos   they will be back