Proof there is no god.

[omaghjoe]

Good man, Joe. At least it's a new one. A thread title now changes the rules of debate.

Do I understand the definition of faith and God? I think so. What's that got to do with my point that it is neither necessary nor possible for the reasonable person, who has no reason to believe there is a god, to prove that there is no god. A learned epistemologist like yourself will have grasped, of course, that that's not the same as asserting that there is no god. I would no more feel the need to make such an assertion than I would to assert that there's no purple milk vapour in the atmosphere of Mars.

What's an empirical straw man scenario? Wait, don't answer. I forgot I'm not engaging with your very engaging non sequiturs.

I thought the thread title would define the debate but if you want to change the rules to suit your argument go ahead.

Where's the non sequitur? Your trying to define God as empirical and disprove him using those means. That's the definition of a straw man Hardy.

[north_antrim_hound]

What's the prize for anyone who can prove by the end of the week there is no leprechaun playing poker with a hobgoblin under your kitchen table when nobody's looking?

Are you trying to set up an accumulator or just deflecting

I know it's been said before but surely the burden of proof is on the religious? You're saying the world was created by a God, those of us who don't believe that don't really know but accept the likelihood of science being able to explain it.

I never said that god created the world but I now you mention it yes I do subscribe to that
The same as you subscribe to the scientific evidence
There is the question of how god created it
If you do your homework
The Big Bang theory
Quantam mechanics
String theory etc is just theory and these mathematical experts you put your trust in are not in agreement how it all started and why
They can't even decide if dark matter exist
They spent billions building the hadron collider just to crash some particles together just to try and prove another theory ( Higgs boson )

I stand corrected but some of these experts are very religious and curious as to how god got this whole thing up and running

Maybe he is the greatest mathematician of them all

[Zulu]

Not sure I follow. I don't believe there is a God because I have seen nothing to suggest there is and the Gods have changed over the years and even now, we can't agree on what or who God is. It seems odd to me there are different Gods or that the current Gods weren't even always the ones we believed in. Why did people think Zeus was a God at one time but now nobody gives the Greek Gods credence?

I don't know, for certain, there isn't a God, it just seems very unlikely as there is nothing leading me that way. Science seems to be able to gradually prove why things are the way they are so I tend to accept that though I don't fully understand the science behind everything.

You are fully entitled to believe in a God but if it's based purely on faith then surely you should believe that anyone following any God is as likely to be right, whether it's Buddha or fairies at the bottom of the garden? And if you believe there is a God surely you would believe that God could engage with people on earth and if so, would you believe me or someone in your circle of friends if they said they were visited by God?

[tonto1888]

What's the prize for anyone who can prove by the end of the week there is no leprechaun playing poker with a hobgoblin under your kitchen table when nobody's looking?

Are you trying to set up an accumulator or just deflecting

I know it's been said before but surely the burden of proof is on the religious? You're saying the world was created by a God, those of us who don't believe that don't really know but accept the likelihood of science being able to explain it.

Ibget where you are coming from but I think there is an equal burden on those who are adamant there is no God to be able to prove it. Myself, I'm a believer. I think. Sometimes I wonder if I'm scared not to believe just in case. You know

[bennydorano]

An Omnipotent being knows all so the common 'just in case' stance is particularly nonsensical if you think about it.

[armaghniac]

Not sure I follow. I don't believe there is a God because I have seen nothing to suggest there is and the Gods have changed over the years and even now, we can't agree on what or who God is. It seems odd to me there are different Gods or that the current Gods weren't even always the ones we believed in. Why did people think Zeus was a God at one time but now nobody gives the Greek Gods credence?

Does that not say more about us than about God?

[Zulu]

Not sure I follow. I don't believe there is a God because I have seen nothing to suggest there is and the Gods have changed over the years and even now, we can't agree on what or who God is. It seems odd to me there are different Gods or that the current Gods weren't even always the ones we believed in. Why did people think Zeus was a God at one time but now nobody gives the Greek Gods credence?

Does that not say more about us than about God?

Does it not just say we don't know there is a God so we make up entities that represent one? I understand that people from ancient history would see the world in terms of an all seeing creator. They couldn't comprehend many things but science has explained a lot of what we didn't understand even 200 years ago.

I think we'd all like to believe there is something after this life. It's understandable that meeting our friends and relatives again and being rewarded for living a good life would appeal. This is particularly so when life is tough, as it has been for the majority throughout history. Is it a coincidence that as more and more people live lives of plenty that they have less attachment to a God?

I can't convince myself there's a God but if others do that's fine. However, if I accept someone saying the Christian God is real and should equally accept a guy who tells me Zeus is the only true God. Neither person can prove to me they are right and I can't prove either is wrong. Is the Christian God to be accepted more purely because it has the numbers now and the Greek Gods don't?

[omaghjoe]

An Omnipotent being knows all so the common 'just in case' stance is particularly nonsensical if you think about it.

well thats why its called faith instead of knowing. Everyone has doubts.... apart from the empiricists it seems who somehow know that our senses (made for survival and reproductions) can tell us everything

[bennydorano]

No, doubts are doubts, but "Sometimes I wonder if I'm scared not to believe just in case. You know" is just hedging your bets. Pascal would be proud.

[omaghjoe]

No, doubts are doubts, but "Sometimes I wonder if I'm scared not to believe just in case. You know" is just hedging your bets. Pascal would be proud.

No.... (feel free to correct me tonto) having doubts comes first, keeping them in check with "just in case" comes second.

[bennydorano]

No, there's a clear distinction between a conscious choice to choose to believe as a safety net and having doubts about your faith. One is genuine, the other is calculated. If there's no difference, there's no point!

[ONeill]

My prediction is that in years to come our descendants will laugh mighty heartily at those who had a dilemma over whether there is a God or not. But we'll never experience their humiliation. Apart from the Portglenonese Monks.

[armaghniac]

If there ever was a God in Tyrone then I suspect that he has retired.

[omaghjoe]

No, there's a clear distinction between a conscious choice to choose to believe as a safety net and having doubts about your faith. One is genuine, the other is calculated. If there's no difference, there's no point!

No, the faith is a choice! You weigh up everything and make a decision. Having the intuitive believe in God, (or indeed self, morals, freewill, etc) is not a choice (unless you can train it out of your mind). But you weigh that intuition and other things like beauty kindness etc against the doubts, bad, evil etc and make your choice in faith or not. 

[bennydorano]

That is not what my interpretation of what faith is or should be. It would go a long to explain the gobshitery present in Irish RC society tho. We've got the perfect example of someone with 'devout' faith on this board who does nothing but undermine what he professes to believe in.