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I think yis are still barking up the wrong tree. An elite manager could manage them all, well bar Pogba maybe.......

Two things I found out today while surfing the dodgy box for a new series to watch.

They have remade Turner and Hooch and it's now a series

They have also remade The Wonder Years, Kevin is a black kid now 

I'd still reckon itll be an easy enough ticket to come by as time gets closer it ya hang tight. There'll possibly even be a further release of tickets to deter people who have bought in the hope of making a few quid later

LFC destroyed by injuries half way through the season, CFC managed by a rookie out of his depth in Lampard. All that being said MUFC were still 12 points off the top. No point in having Sancho with him scratching his hole on the bench ....added to the mix .

You're right though they should be moving forward but that's not all on Oles door. Tactics may be wrong but lazy players are lazy players and there are a number of players in the United squad who won't work and no matter how talented they are that won't count.

I think it's very lazy analysis to say United are lazy players. Tuchel at Chelsea recently and Klopp at Liverpool further back show that players challenged in the right way can/will perform better. Ole is as much out of his depth at Utd as Lampard was at Chelsea?

As someone said yesterday put some of the Liverpool players into the Utd scenario and people would be saying exactly the same things about them. Trent is one that springs to my mind straight away, Liverpool fans are rightly proud of him and he's hugely important to how Liverpool play but at Utd his alleged limited defensive qualities would be pointed out at every hands turn

Ah come on man, Pogba, Ronaldo, Greenwood, Martial....these lads wouldn't run out of the way of themselves!  Fred not much better.

The thing is I think we are actually in  agreement, Ole is out of his depth, the same way Lampard was. That doesn't not though resolve the fact that there are players in the United squad who just ate it up to it. Keane commented that these players threw Mourinho under the bus and would do the same with Ole. That's panning out now and with Ronaldo there the ego is even bigger so that doesn't help.

A new manager should be able to get a better trick out of them but there's still 4-5 top players needed and that cannot be denied

I could make cases for all the Utd players but what would be the point but you're right overall we'd be in general agreement. My feeling though is that most of or all of the supposed lazy players would thrive under the correct management.

Did those players throw Jose under the bus or did he throw them under it, the jury might still be out on that

LFC destroyed by injuries half way through the season, CFC managed by a rookie out of his depth in Lampard. All that being said MUFC were still 12 points off the top. No point in having Sancho with him scratching his hole on the bench ....added to the mix .

You're right though they should be moving forward but that's not all on Oles door. Tactics may be wrong but lazy players are lazy players and there are a number of players in the United squad who won't work and no matter how talented they are that won't count.

I think it's very lazy analysis to say United are lazy players. Tuchel at Chelsea recently and Klopp at Liverpool further back show that players challenged in the right way can/will perform better. Ole is as much out of his depth at Utd as Lampard was at Chelsea?

As someone said yesterday put some of the Liverpool players into the Utd scenario and people would be saying exactly the same things about them. Trent is one that springs to my mind straight away, Liverpool fans are rightly proud of him and he's hugely important to how Liverpool play but at Utd his alleged limited defensive qualities would be pointed out at every hands turn

Agreed with Armaike. I think a misconception has been bandied about the United squad. Last season was an aberration and this year is maybe a bit more reflective of where they are. The reality is there's no cohesion. Certain players get more of a by-ball because of who they are (Maguire, Ronaldo). The biggest mistake was the vanity purchase of Ronaldo. They should have broken the bank for a dominant CM and played the counter attack game. In Sancho, Rashford, Greenwood they have serious pace. Ronaldo can't be dropped so at least one of those can't play. They are neither a pressing team or a counter attacking team. They're somewhere in the middle and that's destroying them. All that being said they're still gonna be battling for the 4th-8th place.

Why is last year an aberration bc1? Its there in black and white... Add Ronaldo, Varane and Sancho to the mix the group should e moving forwards not backwards

Could those players mentioned be better under a better coach?  Absolutely.

Are these players good enough for United to push on to PL/CL winning levels under a better coach?  Absolutely not

Opinion not fact, worse teams/squads have won leagues.

I been attempting to write something similar to that Ed but you have said it much better... I've defended individual Utd players on here loads of times as my belief is that as a group of players they SHOULD be pretty decent and don't buy in to the 'hes shit and he's shit'  way of grading players nowadays. Sometimes a team are better than the sum of their parts like Liverpool but United are significantly worse than the sum of their parts and that currently has.to go down to the way they are managed/coached.

I'll probably be made look stupid by evening time but I don't see a will amongst the club hierarchy to make a managerial change either...

Boycey there is a decent group of players but AWB, Maguire, Shaw and McFred are not top level players. There is a serious problem with the mentality too and the coaching seems to be shocking as it is pure individualism rather than a team.

United should have set a deep back 4, McFred in front, soaked up and attacked in the break. They were caught between pressing and not pressing. No game plan whatsoever. That being said they still need 4-5 players at the top level.

No matter what Ronaldo is a problem and Ole doesn't have the authority to deal with it.

We could argue the toss about the relative ability of players for hours and not agree My point and I've stated it multiple times on here is that the players you have mentioned there for example are/should be competent enough to play a part in a well defined and coached system. Maguire has been a mainstay in an England team that reached a World Cup semi and Euro Final recently. Shaw was also in the Euro squad.. Fred played nearly all the minutes for Brazil in a Copa tournament during the summer....

I'm not saying they the best in the world I'm saying they can contribute under a better coaching regime which was the main thrust of Eds post. His points about Liverpool and Chelsea's improvements ring very true to me....

Back in the day I stood/sat in some mental spots as a Utd fan including managing to be amongst the Inter Milan away fans at Old Trafford on a CL night. I never got a box though, had a couple of close escapes mind...

I been attempting to write something similar to that Ed but you have said it much better... I've defended individual Utd players on here loads of times as my belief is that as a group of players they SHOULD be pretty decent and don't buy in to the 'hes shit and he's shit'  way of grading players nowadays. Sometimes a team are better than the sum of their parts like Liverpool but United are significantly worse than the sum of their parts and that currently has.to go down to the way they are managed/coached.

I'll probably be made look stupid by evening time but I don't see a will amongst the club hierarchy to make a managerial change either...

Was at football today I missed it. What time is MOTD?

Kin spoiler - The beardy lads auld fella has a beard too!!!

After a decent start Ireland have gotten bogged down here... Hard to know what a decent total will be

Ireland playing Namibia tomorrow in a winner takes all clash with the victors entering the main competition which begins at the weekend.

Maguire was poor on Sat after being rushed back from injury, average too last night but in general is in the very top tier of Premier League centre backs...