The IRISH RUGBY thread

[magpie seanie]

Dinny - would be interested on your view on Connacht and how they're doing with limited resources. From an outsider I'd say well but I really don't know the ins and outs of it.

Also - Leinster have massive demographic and cultural advantages on the other provinces. How much of their superiority in terms of structures is down to this?

Connacht are punching. The Pro12 win in 2016 is all the proof you need. The big thing for Connacht was to remove the chip and align their always strong team ethic on the pitch with a business culture that needed to change, and get everyone moving in the same direction. Willie Ruane and Tom Sears before him were good appointments and Pat Lam was fantastic for Connacht at the culture level and he showed what a good coach can do. Good coaches make good players better. Connacht though are handicapped by their stadium, their avg attendance would be 7k+, whereas the other three would avg 16k+ so this reduces their ability to invest in grassroots, player wages back room teams etc and they are more dependent on the IRFU for financial support. The IRFU though know the value of Connacht.  They recruit wisely though and are very good at picking up unwanted/unspotted talent from Leinster and Munster and there is no stigma with signing for Connacht, there is the sense that Leinster players are reluctant to sign for Munster but see Connacht as opportunity to develop. For example one to watch in that sense is Sean Masterson from Portlaoise, brother of Eoghan, he's come through the clubs pathway, outstanding back-row but one thing Leinster don't need is another back-row, Connacht came knocking so he's joined their academy.

While I think Connacht have under-performed this year, you have to wait till year two and see what progress a coach is making, Keane is a good coach, good fit for Connacht, use to work with limited resources and coming from a innovative background. Connacht are a good bet for the European Challenge Cup.  So Connacht are doing well, there model works but like anything could be improved upon. New stadium would help.

As for Leinster yes numbers are important but they now have structures in place to harvest them properly. The big benefit for Leinster is how seriously schools take the Leinster Senior Cup and much they invest in coaching and facilities. These schools are essentially mini-academies, and your average training week for these guys is 3 pitch sessions, 2 gym sessions, 1 video session. This allows Leinster throw their coaching resources into the club game, 5 development squads for u16s, 3 centres of excellence for u17s and then the u18 youths. This is the route Tadgh Furlong, Joey Carberry, Adam Byrne etc have followed one to watch here is probably Ciaran Frawley, an out-half from Skerries. So Leinster have 2 pathways to identify and develop talent. Leinster also have more financial resources to fund these pathways but the problem for Leinster is like in any professional sport so much money goes towards the talent i.e. the players. So for any of the provinces once a players contract is up money has to be found from somewhere and generally costs have to be cut from other budgets such as coaching and development.

As for culture I credit Cheika for changing that on the professional playing side, recognised Leinster were soft and went about dismantling and building that back up. Then shrewd coaching appointments such as Joe Scmidt and now Stuart Lancaster have just driven standards and these guys back the Academy players which just helps grow the Academy's sense of worth. Leinster aren't perfect, the domestic game is seeing a drop off in the number of teams and participation rates are dropping particularly those kids who play in school buy have no club affiliation, they literally just give up playing. And personally I believe a strong domestic game fuels the future success of the professional game.

Thanks Dinny, appreciate the time you took to post that. That all makes sense to me and explains things I might have thought but didn't know for sure.

Connacht's stadium is a big issue alright. Galway is the largest city and the team will get the biggest crowds there but it's located at one end of the province. You're right about the chip on the shoulder. As supporters some of us (definitely me) still have it (which is probably ok) but the players and organisation have got rid of it and that was needed. You can't have that negativity taking away from your energy. The development in the game across the province is unbelievable. The club here in Sligo being a case in point. Not long ago I had a very enjoyable night/morning in the rugby club on the back of a Connacht junior cup win which was a tremendous achievement at any time for the club. A good crossover from my GAA club including the coach and captain that time so it was great stuff. They won the Connacht senior cup this year though. I know the coach and he's excellent....they've just developed so well that club.

Thanks again Dinny.

[Dinny Breen]

Sligo RFC are doing great stuff, even gave mighty Lansdowne a good run for it the Bateman Cup too. They should have been home and hosed in AIL 2C but hit a poor run losing to the 3 bottom teams in a row. Still you can see they are putting the work into underage (a number of Irish u20 and u18 reps as well as Connacht underage) so the basis for their success is there to see. GAA and Club Rugby seem to compliment each other well, as summer and winter sports and only at elite is there a competition for players. I would be a big fan of any club in any sport that just invests in their own underage structures and drives participation, it's the only way to sustain it and one of the reasons why the GAA is successful. The ease of transfers in rugby and soccer does not help the growth of either sport. 

[Orchard park]

how many in Sligo RFC firsts play club hurling or gaelic ?

[Syferus]

I know a New Zealand lad who was brought over to play rugby for Sligo. Is it common place that these clubs set up lads like the American GAA clubs do?

[Dinny Breen]

I know a New Zealand lad who was brought over to play rugby for Sligo. Is it common place that these clubs set up lads like the American GAA clubs do?

Very common, clubs will bring in a player, you are allowed one overseas player i.e. non-EU package would normally be flight, accommodation and assistance finding a job. Probably looking at a package cost of 5k. Pretty much every AIL club would have an overseas player and some of the bigger Junior clubs. You will see lots of Irish lads head out to Oz on the same arrangement. If you have talent and a good attitude it's a great way to see the world.

[seafoid]

If Connacht had a stadium holding 16k would it be able to fill it? The population of Connacht is about one third that of Munster and Ulster.

[manfromdelmonte]

If Connacht had a stadium holding 16k would it be able to fill it? The population of Connacht is about one third that of Munster and Ulster.

no.
I've gone to one Connacht game in Musgrave Park v Munster.
I swore never to go again.
more entertainment at a junior b football or hurling game.

[Owen Brannigan]

Major blow to Pro14 followers as BBC lost the rights to home games for next season, includes N.Ireland, Scotland and Wales.  Premier Sports, a ppv company, has bought the rights and local rugby leaves free to air viewers.

SKY have lost out to Eir and TG4 have been pushed out as well unless someone can compel an Irish language rugby broadcast, perhaps highlights.

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/full-story-behind-bbc-losing-14376276

[Hound]

Major blow to Pro14 followers as BBC lost the rights to home games for next season, includes N.Ireland, Scotland and Wales.  Premier Sports, a ppv company, has bought the rights and local rugby leaves free to air viewers.

SKY have lost out to Eir and TG4 have been pushed out as well unless someone can compel an Irish language rugby broadcast, perhaps highlights.

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/full-story-behind-bbc-losing-14376276

Short sighted of Pro14. Should be on RTE and BBC to drum up as much interest as possible, until the Pro 14 league becomes as important to fans as the English and French leagues are to their fans. Then they could sell to a highest bidder.

[Owen Brannigan]

Longer term development has been taken over by the immediate need for cash to pay higher wages and keep players from going into the english and French leagues.  A short sighted view would be that more will turn up to see what is no longer available but the opposite will be true and the TV audience will just move on.

Already this week the SKY package went up by £4-50 with nothing to show for it.  Another £10 minimum to see Pro14 would have to be for the real diehard TV fans and with previous free service there won't be many lining up to buy in.

[Milltown Row2]

Major blow to Pro14 followers as BBC lost the rights to home games for next season, includes N.Ireland, Scotland and Wales.  Premier Sports, a ppv company, has bought the rights and local rugby leaves free to air viewers.

SKY have lost out to Eir and TG4 have been pushed out as well unless someone can compel an Irish language rugby broadcast, perhaps highlights.

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/full-story-behind-bbc-losing-14376276

That's a bollix ! Easy Friday night viewing

[manfromdelmonte]

the ulster rugby crowd might have to learn some Irish

[magpie seanie]

the ulster rugby crowd might have to learn some Irish

Arlene demands an Irish Language Act now!!!!

[oakleaflad]

Team vs Scotland. Furlong and Ringrose start with Henderson back on the bench. J Murphy and J Larmour also been given places on the bench.

IRELAND: R Kearney, K Earls, G Ringrose, B Aki, J Stockdale, J Sexton, C Murray; C Healy, R Best, T Furlong, J Ryan, D Toner, P O'Mahony, D Leavy, CJ Stander. Replacements: S Cronin, J McGrath, A Porter, I Henderson, J Murphy, K Marmion, J Carbery, J Larmour.

[seafoid]

https://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/six-nations/neil-francis-i-couldnt-sleep-this-week-and-came-to-a-shocking-realisation-ireland-are-now-playing-warrenball-36682460.html