The IRISH RUGBY thread

[johnneycool]

Found myself daydreaming about Simon Geoghegan scampering down the wing during that game.

I don't recall Ireland winning a lot of matches in his day.I remember being in a hotel near Lansdowne Road in 94 when Geoghegan walked in and the reaction of the women present.

And what's not to like, Dr Geoghegan was as good a winger as played for Ireland in my lifetime.

Ireland are now at a crossroads in terms of tactics IMO. We aren't big enough for crash ball, we don't do offloading and the backs barring the odd exception haven't got the skillset to muster a line break individually or collectively.
Average Joe's I'm afraid still capable of the odd upset but nothing sustained.

[seafoid]

Found myself daydreaming about Simon Geoghegan scampering down the wing during that game.

I don't recall Ireland winning a lot of matches in his day.I remember being in a hotel near Lansdowne Road in 94 when Geoghegan walked in and the reaction of the women present.

And what's not to like, Dr Geoghegan was as good a winger as played for Ireland in my lifetime.

Ireland are now at a crossroads in terms of tactics IMO. We aren't big enough for crash ball, we don't do offloading and the backs barring the odd exception haven't got the skillset to muster a line break individually or collectively.
Average Joe's I'm afraid still capable of the odd upset but nothing sustained.

why no offloads ?  Geoghegan was class alright

[Jim_Murphy_74]

People are jumping the gun about tactics a bit I think.

If we had won in Paris (which we could of) many of the critics would have lauded Joe and team.

I don't see the provinces playing an offloading game so it is hard to see how players will overnight play that way for national team.

I think with players missing we hadn't focus/ability to carry out the plan.  Weak scrum cost us both days, general play wasn't that bad. 

Also if games are close you must be spot on in execution.

A loose kick gave France territory to score try and a kick-off straight to touch let them burn down the clock.

Wales got a try because our scrum was in trouble.

These are not tactical issues, just plain old mistakes.

/Jim

[Walter Cronc]

Whats the thoughts on Henshaw leaving Connacht? Munster have confirmed he wont be going there so its looking like Leinster.

Its a bit of a shame as I'd have preferred to see him at Munster as it would give them a much needed boost.

Surely the IRFU should be developing a system whereby the likes of Connacht receive 1-2 players in return for Henshaw. Say Dominic Ryan and McFadden who arent starters for Leinster. Just a thought?

[Applesisapples]

I don't know the laws of the game that well, I just enjoy watching it. However to someone like me the refereeing of the scrum seems to be totally at the Ref's discretion and I am never sure if he penalizes the right offender or just guesses. In such a tight game as Saturdays the ref's missing of the Kearney and Sexton incidents had a big bearing. Am I being fair?

[deiseach]

I don't know the laws of the game that well, I just enjoy watching it. However to someone like me the refereeing of the scrum seems to be totally at the Ref's discretion and I am never sure if he penalizes the right offender or just guesses. In such a tight game as Saturdays the ref's missing of the Kearney and Sexton incidents had a big bearing. Am I being fair?

There's a half dozen infringements happening at any one time. What the ref decides to whistle up for is pure voodoo.

[Bord na Mona man]

Found myself daydreaming about Simon Geoghegan scampering down the wing during that game.

I don't recall Ireland winning a lot of matches in his day.I remember being in a hotel near Lansdowne Road in 94 when Geoghegan walked in and the reaction of the women present.

And what's not to like, Dr Geoghegan was as good a winger as played for Ireland in my lifetime.

Ireland are now at a crossroads in terms of tactics IMO. We aren't big enough for crash ball, we don't do offloading and the backs barring the odd exception haven't got the skillset to muster a line break individually or collectively.
Average Joe's I'm afraid still capable of the odd upset but nothing sustained.

why no offloads ?

Rob Kearney tried one and gave it to a French player. I'm not sure you can switch to that sort of game quickly. For starters, the players need to expect an offload and by shadowing the carrier at close proximity. When your game is primarily ruck and recycle, the faster players tend to stay a bit wider, waiting for the next phase and leave the channel open for the fatties to come smashing into the ruck.

[Crete Boom]

Nobody in Connacht is happy that their star player , the face of the province has been taken from them even though they knew( were probably told) this was gong to happen 12 months ago. Good luck to Robbie as his only choice was a move abroad or Leinster and he stated he didn't want to move abroad.
What is most annoying is the arguments levelled in the past (rightly so as well) at Connacht before was they produced very little talent , were poorly set up on and off the pitch and spent more time with the begging bowl out and fighting amongst themselves than addressing any of these problems , they then go and address these problems only for the reward to be their top product from their system is cherry picked for another province as soon as he breaks in to the international team!!!

Also the line it was the players decision is insulting to anyone involved with Connacht rugby . First you had the Leinster President boasting about Robbie already being a Leinster player to the press a year ago. Then you had Drico admitting he told Robbie to move to Leinster as he would be playing at higher level ,maybe true from Drico's Leinster point of view a couple of years ago but not as clear cut an argument now and I don't see it effecting Toby Faleteau's form for Wales and the Lions playing for the Dragons!!!Throw in Schmitt's preference for Robbie to be playing alongside Sexton week in week out but as much as I can see his argument why don't the IRFU move Murray and O Mahony and Henderson to Leinster for the sake of combinations?? Why wasn't Drico moved to Munster or Ulster in 2000 when he was playing outside Eddie Heckinewue instead of O'Gara or Humphries combo??

Then you have the line trotted out that well he will be on a central contract so Leinster cannot offer him more money than Connacht , well they cannot offer him  more basic money but there is no restriction on the amount of corporate money they can use to top up his wages just like they did with Sexton through Denis O'Brien and there probably wasn't a central contract on the table if he stayed with Connacht anyway.

The main frustration for Connacht Rugby is naively they thought that having sorted out their affairs and provided the IRFU with a viable fourth province in terms of organisation and structure, through the granting of equal status in terms of backroom staff funding from the IRFU signaled the end to the threat of being disbanded and within reason room to improve and grow on the strong showing so far this season and last season , but this signals that still Connacht are essentially a development squad for the other 3 provinces.Henshaw and Ahyou look likely to be the first of the "we want him so move him" type player transfers with the likes of Denis Buckley , Ultan Dillane , James Connolly, Findlay Belham and maybe Pat Lam all on the move in the next year or so if Connacht's fears are to come true!!!

What happens with the rest of of young talent in the future??
Do the likes of Marmion/Blade/O'Brien/Buckley/Carty/Claffey/Gallagher/O'Donnell have to move on if they are on the periphery of the Irish team regardless of the position of Connacht?
Are we close to returning to the bad old days of the IRFU imposing one year only contract offers ( to review the business case for the province!!!!) to coincide with contract renewals of some of the more desirable players in the squad???

The irony is this comes as a backdrop to Connacht having a steady stream of academy talent filtering into the first team squad constantly and being joint top of the pro 12 along with being the only Irish team left in Europe.
Hopefully the resolve in the team remains by securing a top 4 finish in the pro 12 and making a European final. This would put Connacht on a strong footing to progress more next year and if they lose more first team stars or coaching staff then so be it but they will have the comfort of being in a stronger position to attract replacements!!More local talent and more fans through the turnstiles are two areas totally in the Connacht Branch's control so this is where the focus should be rather than moaning ( like me!!! ) about Robbie , Rodney and whoever else is moved to another province in the supposed interest of team Ireland.
Personally I hope Connacht don't get mad(like my post above!!!!) , just get even by qualifying for Europe and competing for Pro 12 titles on a regular basis!!!

[Dinny Breen]

Henshaw will make more money playing for Leinster! How do you or why would restrict his movement? Players have an entitlement to maximise their revenue potential they are always only one injury away from retirement.

Leinster lost Felix Jones to Munster, they offered him a better deal, they lost Andrew Conway to Munster agin better deal. Marty Moore to Wasps better deal, that is the nature of professional sport. Faletau is moving to Bath, guess what better deal...

Connacht are doing very well on the pitch but run a deficit every year off it. D

One thing I'd liked about Pat Lam was he talked about getting rid of the chip off the shoulder, the team are playing with the freedom that gives, their supporters need to follow suit.

[AZOffaly]

Is Henshaw not on a central contract?

[Dinny Breen]

Is Henshaw not on a central contract?

Commercial opportunities playing for Leinster and being based in Dublin would heavily outweigh what he could do with Connacht. 

[Crete Boom]

Henshaw will make more money playing for Leinster! How do you or why would restrict his movement? Players have an entitlement to maximise their revenue potential they are always only one injury away from retirement.

Leinster lost Felix Jones to Munster, they offered him a better deal, they lost Andrew Conway to Munster agin better deal. Marty Moore to Wasps better deal, that is the nature of professional sport. Faletau is moving to Bath, guess what better deal...

Connacht are doing very well on the pitch but run a deficit every year off it. D

One thing I'd liked about Pat Lam was he talked about getting rid of the chip off the shoulder, the team are playing with the freedom that gives, their supporters need to follow suit.

Connacht would just like to treated the same as the other provinces when it comes to contract renewals now that they have their house in order and doing their fair share ( at last) to contribute to Irish Rugby that's all.
Felix Jones and Andrew Conway were at best quality back ups at that time and moved from Leinster to secure first team rugby.
Henshaw is/was Connacht's biggest star and first name on the teamsheet for Connacht since he was 19!!
I feel for Leinster fans on the Marty Moore c**k up since it is obvious he wants to stay at Leinster and all he wanted was a fair contract from the IRFU but they offered him a pretty pathetic deal thinking nothing would go wrong only for Wasp's to step in and snap him up!!

The mantra of ridding the chip on the shoulder attitude comes form the (CEO) top down is not Pat's creation.THe IRFU in the last couple of months are severely testing this mantra though!!!

[Crete Boom]

Is Henshaw not on a central contract?

Henshaw is only on a provincial contract currently.

Top ups in the form of money on top of the contract wages from a corporate sponsor are not governed by the IRFU rules of a central contract.
This is to allow the provinces compete against the French clubs after Sexton left and to ease the burden on the IRFU but still prevent a sugar daddy turning a province onto his personal plaything ala Saracens/Toulon/Racing Metro/Bath etc....

[Dinny Breen]

Henshaw will make more money playing for Leinster! How do you or why would restrict his movement? Players have an entitlement to maximise their revenue potential they are always only one injury away from retirement.

Leinster lost Felix Jones to Munster, they offered him a better deal, they lost Andrew Conway to Munster agin better deal. Marty Moore to Wasps better deal, that is the nature of professional sport. Faletau is moving to Bath, guess what better deal...

Connacht are doing very well on the pitch but run a deficit every year off it. D

One thing I'd liked about Pat Lam was he talked about getting rid of the chip off the shoulder, the team are playing with the freedom that gives, their supporters need to follow suit.

Connacht would just like to treated the same as the other provinces when it comes to contract renewals now that they have their house in order and doing their fair share ( at last) to contribute to Irish Rugby that's all.
Felix Jones and Andrew Conway were at best quality back ups at that time and moved from Leinster to secure first team rugby.
Henshaw is/was Connacht's biggest star and first name on the teamsheet for Connacht since he was 19!!
I feel for Leinster fans on the Marty Moore c**k up since it is obvious he wants to stay at Leinster and all he wanted was a fair contract from the IRFU but they offered him a pretty pathetic deal thinking nothing would go wrong only for Wasp's to step in and snap him up!!

The mantra of ridding the chip on the shoulder attitude comes form the (CEO) top down is not Pat's creation.THe IRFU in the last couple of months are severely testing this mantra though!!!

Connacht are still losing money, close to a million a year. Henshaw is moving to a central contract, I'm not sure if Leinster are adding to this with a Private Benefactor top-up although I should be able to confirm that in the next couple of weeks. Leinster lost Madigan as well, their budget is not limitless. But he will make more money playing for Leinster regardless of top-ups, his image rights are worth more as Leinster/Ireland player. That is a reality.

Add in that Leinster will probably win the Pro12, which will give an easier draw next year for the RCC, at a rugby level it makes more sense.

Henshaw has made a decision, he took close to three months so not an easy decision. He has played 5 games for Connacht this year, Connacht are where they are are because of excellent recruitment and even better coaching not because of one player.

[seafoid]

Mike McCarthy got concussed. Second time in a year.