Congress

[lenny]

There's a bizarre search for novelty in GAA formats. Every new format change is painted as something shiny and exciting that the public will go mad for.

Has that ever actually been true?

Novelty tends to wear off very quickly.

This is exactly the problem with the GAA as exemplified by a good number of posters on here. Will support any change no matter how batshit crazy it is just to be seen as progressive.

The biggest disease in Gaelic football is the constant change and clamour for more change, never a single consideration that there might possibly be a downside to the new rules.

No other sport indulges in such self flagellation.

Most sports like Aussie rules, soccer and rugby have way more self evaluation and rule changes than Gaelic football. Change and evolution can be good if managed well. The county game hasn't worked well for many counties over the last 20 or 30 years if ever. Many players from those counties have no prospect of success or even challenging. The measures proposed give them some hope of development and the prospect of getting success.

Do you seriously think these proposals are designed to help weaker counties develop, because if you do I can only feel sorry for your state of delusion.

The last 20 years have not worked for many counties as there has been a clear direction of travel towards rewarding the elite counties at the expense of the weak. These proposals are another step on that road IMO.

So you think it's better that weak counties continue to get 2 games every summer? How does that help them develop? Usually against teams that are on a completely different level. That's just a waste of time. Change will happen, it's just a case of when. More and more players from weaker counties are opting out and saying what's the point.

[dublin7]

The days of counties like Leitrim, Limerick and Louth competing with the likes of Mayo, Dublin and Kerry are gone. The top counties are investing so much in training, weight programs etc that they have pulled away and it's one of the main reasons we see so many hammerings in each province come the championship.

I don't think anyone is stupid enough to believe a county like Carlow could win Sam under the new proposal, but what they do have is a legitimate opportunity to compete for a trophy and are guaranteed 7 games a season rather than a hammering in the provincial championship followed by another hammering in the qualifiers.

The same principal could be applied to all the other div 3 & 4 teams as it gives them a chance to compete for silverware each season and play far more games.

[Keyser soze]

The days of counties like Leitrim, Limerick and Louth competing with the likes of Mayo, Dublin and Kerry are gone. The top counties are investing so much in training, weight programs etc that they have pulled away and it's one of the main reasons we see so many hammerings in each province come the championship.

I don't think anyone is stupid enough to believe a county like Carlow could win Sam under the new proposal, but what they do have is a legitimate opportunity to compete for a trophy and are guaranteed 7 games a season rather than a hammering in the provincial championship followed by another hammering in the qualifiers.

The same principal could be applied to all the other div 3 & 4 teams as it gives them a chance to compete for silverware each season and play far more games.

Paragraph 1 succinctly summarises the rationale for change.

However rather than address the problem, i.e. how can we make these counties more competitive, the proposed solution is to sideline them into a mickey mouse competition and give them a series of meaningless games to win a meaningless competition.

[rodney trotter]

They were discussing the pros and cons of Proposal B on the Rte Gaa pod https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q44mtN14lqc&t=176s

[dublin7]

The days of counties like Leitrim, Limerick and Louth competing with the likes of Mayo, Dublin and Kerry are gone. The top counties are investing so much in training, weight programs etc that they have pulled away and it's one of the main reasons we see so many hammerings in each province come the championship.

I don't think anyone is stupid enough to believe a county like Carlow could win Sam under the new proposal, but what they do have is a legitimate opportunity to compete for a trophy and are guaranteed 7 games a season rather than a hammering in the provincial championship followed by another hammering in the qualifiers.

The same principal could be applied to all the other div 3 & 4 teams as it gives them a chance to compete for silverware each season and play far more games.

Paragraph 1 succinctly summarises the rationale for change.

However rather than address the problem, i.e. how can we make these counties more competitive, the proposed solution is to sideline them into a mickey mouse competition and give them a series of meaningless games to win a meaningless competition.

How exactly do can you get Leitrm/Carlow to compete with Dublin and Mayo on a regular basis? You can throw all the funding/coaching in the world at both counties but with their size and playing numbers neither county will ever win Sam.

[yellowcard]

So it looks like just Ulster (and a few others) says no! Except for Down who say yes. But they also voted for the abolition of Rule 21 so they have a history of doing things differently in Down and if reports are correct they were given the mandates from the clubs, which is the correct way of doing things. Fair and democratic and not a few administrators at the top making their own decision as some counties have shamefully left the decision in the hands of their delegates on the day.

The reality is that most casual GAA fans are not fully aware of what these changes entail and are not overly bothered and this is also because there is a slight disconnect with the county game among a lot of club members. They will only think about it again when the championship actually starts. It's easy to slate people for going against change but it has to be the right sort of change and if there is scope for some alterations in February then I think this will be enough to sway the undecideds on the day. It does still look like it could go either way at the minute though.

[Derry Optimist]

Despite the fact that three of the four 

[sid waddell]

The days of counties like Leitrim, Limerick and Louth competing with the likes of Mayo, Dublin and Kerry are gone. The top counties are investing so much in training, weight programs etc that they have pulled away and it's one of the main reasons we see so many hammerings in each province come the championship.

I don't think anyone is stupid enough to believe a county like Carlow could win Sam under the new proposal, but what they do have is a legitimate opportunity to compete for a trophy and are guaranteed 7 games a season rather than a hammering in the provincial championship followed by another hammering in the qualifiers.

The same principal could be applied to all the other div 3 & 4 teams as it gives them a chance to compete for silverware each season and play far more games.

Paragraph 1 succinctly summarises the rationale for change.

However rather than address the problem, i.e. how can we make these counties more competitive, the proposed solution is to sideline them into a mickey mouse competition and give them a series of meaningless games to win a meaningless competition.

This is exactly the problem with the thinking of the GAA and GAA media.

Making counties which are weak now competitive again is difficult. It takes time, money and effort.

So in true Homer Simpson fashion, the GAA and GAA media tell us "if something is difficult, it's not worth even attempting".

The GAA is telling us that the strong will be strong forever and the weak will remain weak forever. Ultra-elitism.

How long before a yawning chasm of standards emerges within Division 1 itself, where the weakest two or three counties in it cannot compete with the strongest two or three, and we get constant yo-yoing?

And where do we go from there?

The GAA cannot sustain a Premier League format.

And people need to look at the problems with the Premier League, and with other European Leagues.

There's a serious possibility that the Gaelic football championship becomes a La Liga type duopoly, Dublin as Real Madrid, Kerry as Barcelona.

Tyrone and Mayo might be the Atletico Madrids and Valencias.

Down and Derry will probably become Eibar and Rayo Vallecano.

[Derry Optimist]

Despite the fact that three of the four Provincial Councils "DIPLOMATICALLY ADVISED"each county within their jurisdiction to vote against all motions, many counties have mandated their delegates to vote for Proposal B.

This type of intense Provincial Council  lobbying cannot  be healthy for any democratic organisation.In the circumstances how can it be proven that delegates will vote in the manner that they were advised to? Should the voting system not be transparent to  everyone so that  proper democracy to be applied!?

[sid waddell]

It does still look like it could go either way at the minute though.

At this stage I'd be very surprised if it isn't passed comfortably. I don't see where the votes against are coming from.

[Farrandeelin]

It does still look like it could go either way at the minute though.

At this stage I'd be very surprised if it isn't passed comfortably. I don't see where the votes against are coming from.

Central Council have a helluva lot of votes however. I suppose a lot will be riding on how they all go.

[BennyCake]

Despite the fact that three of the four Provincial Councils "DIPLOMATICALLY ADVISED"each county within their jurisdiction to vote against all motions, many counties have mandated their delegates to vote for Proposal B.

This type of intense Provincial Council  lobbying cannot  be healthy for any democratic organisation.In the circumstances how can it be proven that delegates will vote in the manner that they were advised to? Should the voting system not be transparent to  everyone so that  proper democracy to be applied!?

Exactly.

I remember when they passed the black card. There was a load of impassioned speakers before the vote and how we need to clean up the game etc. But why do that if delegates already know how they're voting? Why try to sway them at the last minute, if their minds are already made up?

Transparency is definitely needed at congress.

[screenexile]

Despite the fact that three of the four Provincial Councils "DIPLOMATICALLY ADVISED"each county within their jurisdiction to vote against all motions, many counties have mandated their delegates to vote for Proposal B.

This type of intense Provincial Council  lobbying cannot  be healthy for any democratic organisation.In the circumstances how can it be proven that delegates will vote in the manner that they were advised to? Should the voting system not be transparent to  everyone so that  proper democracy to be applied!?

Exactly.

I remember when they passed the black card. There was a load of impassioned speakers before the vote and how we need to clean up the game etc. But why do that if delegates already know how they're voting? Why try to sway them at the last minute, if their minds are already made up?

Transparency is definitely needed at congress.

Absolutely but delegates voted against transparency last time around!

[lenny]

The days of counties like Leitrim, Limerick and Louth competing with the likes of Mayo, Dublin and Kerry are gone. The top counties are investing so much in training, weight programs etc that they have pulled away and it's one of the main reasons we see so many hammerings in each province come the championship.

I don't think anyone is stupid enough to believe a county like Carlow could win Sam under the new proposal, but what they do have is a legitimate opportunity to compete for a trophy and are guaranteed 7 games a season rather than a hammering in the provincial championship followed by another hammering in the qualifiers.

The same principal could be applied to all the other div 3 & 4 teams as it gives them a chance to compete for silverware each season and play far more games.

Paragraph 1 succinctly summarises the rationale for change.

However rather than address the problem, i.e. how can we make these counties more competitive, the proposed solution is to sideline them into a mickey mouse competition and give them a series of meaningless games to win a meaningless competition.

How exactly do can you get Leitrm/Carlow to compete with Dublin and Mayo on a regular basis? You can throw all the funding/coaching in the world at both counties but with their size and playing numbers neither county will ever win Sam.

Totally agree with this. Teams can only develop with regular games against teams at their own level. If they're good enough they move up to the next level to test themselves there. It's the model which works at club level all over the country and works well. Club players are all generally playing competitive games where they can compete. In Derry we've seen Coleraine come all the way from junior football to winning 2 senior titles in the last 15 years. Other clubs yo-yo up and down with sporadic successes at junior or intermediate. The model is there, it works well, club players all over the country are content with it and it here is no reason it wouldn't work at county.

[Hound]

60% is a high bar. I can see it falling somewhere around 45-55%.

If it did get through I'd be very confident the new provincial championship dates would do much better than the negative press it's getting. Okay, Munster and Leinster will still be Munster and Leinster, but there's absolutely no reason the big games in Connacht and Ulster won't have the same attendance and atmosphere they have in the summer.

Roscommon fans go mental when they win a Connacht U20 in the winter, so I think it's a bit silly to suggest they wouldn't have huge celebrations for winning a senior Connacht title in the Spring. It's not like beating Mayo in a senior final in the normal system knocks Mayo out of the All Ireland anyway, so the fact that Mayo would still be favourites to finish higher than the Rossies in the league/championship format is no reason not to celebrate provincial success as they normally would. 

The worry I'd have for the new system is dead rubbers in the lower divisions.

The comment of the Galway county board saying they'd like to see teams 6, 7 and 8 in D1 in the knockout stages really worried me. That would make an absolute nonsense of it and make all 7 games in D1 pre-championship challenge games.

With the All Ireland, only 1 team wins and all rest exit at different times. So to me I see not a thing wrong with a heap of teams exiting after their 7 games. The will have had their chance (games 6 and 7 in particular will have a knockout feel), but they will have failed, and they can try again next year. Certainly better than all the teams who exit at the first or second round of the qualifiers, many only having had 2 or 3 games.

Allowing the best of the worst teams parachute into the knockout stages is annoying some people, but the weaker counties seem unanimous in their view that this is what they want- play games against their own level, and let the best of them then have a shot at the bigger teams.