Sinn Fein? They have gone away, you know.

Started by Trevor Hill, January 18, 2010, 12:28:52 AM

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trueblue1234

Quote from: Rossfan on March 06, 2020, 10:02:39 AM
SF have more integrity....
Great fairytales of our times  ;D

To be fair, if your comparing against FF & FG that's not a huge achievement.
Grammar: the difference between knowing your shit

Angelo

Quote from: Rossfan on March 06, 2020, 10:02:39 AM
SF have more integrity....
Great fairytales of our times  ;D

Than FG or FF?

Without doubt they have more integrity.
GAA FUNDING CHEATS CHEAT US ALL

Snapchap

Quote from: trailer on March 05, 2020, 02:57:32 PM
Quote from: Hound on March 05, 2020, 01:25:55 PM
Some good information on Sinn Fein in the Irish Times today, a lot of it supplied from SF's director of finance Des Mackin.

Nothing new here for our Ulster brethern I'm sure, but plenty for us in the 26. Hopefully it's a sign of bringing more transparency into Irish politics:

Long-term director of finance, Des Mackin said Sinn Féin does not want its elected representatives controlling the party.

"We don't want a parliamentary party running the organisation," the senior party officer said. "We want to stay a party of activists. It's a totally different model.

Three former Sinn Féin elected representatives also told The Irish Times that Sinn Féin was a tightly controlled organisation where unelected officials sought to tell elected representatives what to do. There's nothing mysterious about it."

"There are no paper walls hiding people," he said. "It's not a case of IRA figures in a smoky room in Belfast. They are on the ardchomhairle."

The party's standing committee, the Coiste Seasta, is a key body in the running of the party. There are currently eight people on the committee, only one of whom is an elected representative. Five of the eight are from Belfast.

Sinn Féin's ultimate ruling body is its ardchomhairle, but it is a large body, sometimes with more than 50 members, and meets approximately 10 times a year. The smaller Coiste Seasta, which meets every fortnight, has the power of the ardchomhairle when the latter is not sitting, and runs the party on a day-to-day basis.

All the party's national departments report to the ardchomhairle through the Coiste Seasta, according to the Sinn Féin constitution. The committee approves all payments out of party funds that are above €250.
The current membership of the Coiste Seasta is: Sinn Féin's national chairman Declan Kearney, MLA; party general-secretary Dawn Doyle; director of elections and senior strategist Brian Tumilty; director of finance Des Mackin; Belfast party activist Conor Keenan; head of the "six-county" directorate and party chair in Belfast Sam Baker; head of the "26-county" directorate Ken O'Connell; and director of organisation Martin Lynch. Three of the members of the committee have IRA convictions.

With other major parties in the Republic, the parliamentary party meeting, where a party's elected representatives meet in private to thrash out party positions, is a key structure. Not so with Sinn Féin, according to the former Sinn Féin TD.

"It basically wasn't a parliamentary party meeting at all, because a TD with 10,000 votes would have the same say as a political assistant that walked in off the street the day before. The meetings were more akin to focus groups, in which the temperature of the room was taken, but decisions weren't taken. It was a big failing. There was a sense of disempowerment among the TDs in their ability to effect decisions."

Similar observations about how the party operates were made by two former Sinn Féin councillors who spoke with The Irish Times. The former Sinn Féin politicians said this process of headquarters seeking to exert control over elected representatives was overseen by the Coiste Seasta.

Paid party organisers "come in, to council meetings, and tell councillors what to do and what to say", said one.

"You were directed all the time," said the other. "No matter how trivial the matter [–] would tell you what way to vote. I found that very difficult. I was never a nodding dog for anyone."

Sinn Féin is the richest political party on the island of Ireland, with approximately 200 staff and, according to its director of finance, Des Mackin, an extensive property network across the island. The exact number of people employed by the party and its elected representatives is not clear, but is probably in excess of 200, he said.

The size of Sinn Féin's property portfolio has never been revealed, but according to the senior party officer, it far exceeds anything owned by its political rivals.
Sinn Féin owns up to 50 properties in constituencies around the island, over and above the four properties in Dublin and Belfast owned directly by party headquarters, Mackin said.

According to Mackin, the merchandising business operated by Sinn Féin, which sells items that celebrate the IRA and the republican struggle, is producing a profit for the first time in ages. During the general election campaign, the party's "Come Out Ye Black and Tans" T-shirts (€19.99 each) were "flying", he said.

You get what you vote for.

Apparently not. The people voted for SF, but they aren't going to get SF.

armaghniac

Quote from: Snapchap on March 06, 2020, 10:19:51 AM
Apparently not. The people voted for SF, but they aren't going to get SF.

A quarter of people voted for SF.
If at first you don't succeed, then goto Plan B

Rossfan

1st preferences
SF 24%
FF 22.4%
FG 20.8%
Lab/SDP/PbP 10% between them.
Greens 7%
Rest whatever  - c16%.

That's who "the people voted for" a total mixumgatherum  ::)
Davy's given us a dream to cling to
We're going to bring home the SAM

Angelo

Quote from: armaghniac on March 06, 2020, 10:53:10 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on March 06, 2020, 10:19:51 AM
Apparently not. The people voted for SF, but they aren't going to get SF.

A quarter of people voted for SF.

You still haven't answered who it is you vote for?
GAA FUNDING CHEATS CHEAT US ALL

Rossfan

It's a secret ballot for fk sake.
Plus he's not obliged to answer to you...... or will you be sending the baseball bat crew around?
Davy's given us a dream to cling to
We're going to bring home the SAM

Angelo

Quote from: Rossfan on March 06, 2020, 11:37:41 AM
It's a secret ballot for fk sake.
Plus he's not obliged to answer to you...... or will you be sending the baseball bat crew around?

Well if you're able to shout the odds then you shouldn't be afraid to put your own colours on the mast.

Plenty of SF bashers here are very reticent to disclose who they vote for, maybe it's because a lot of their outrage pales in significance when we see their political allegiance.

The baseball bat crew? I think you'll find FF/FG are more likely to send round a few baton yielding policeman than SF are to send round a few lads with baseball bats.
GAA FUNDING CHEATS CHEAT US ALL

BennyCake

Quote from: armaghniac on March 05, 2020, 02:52:33 PM
Quote
"We don't want a parliamentary party running the organisation," the senior party officer said. "We want to stay a party of activists. It's a totally different model.

Yes, but if I vote for SF then I expect the person elected to represent my interests and those of other voters and not the interests of SF party activists, be they retired gunmen or not.

That's why I don't vote. No party represents my interests. And as you say, all parties look after themselves, first and foremost. The general publics interests are a very distant second place.

Snapchap

Quote from: armaghniac on March 06, 2020, 10:53:10 AM
Quote from: Snapchap on March 06, 2020, 10:19:51 AM
Apparently not. The people voted for SF, but they aren't going to get SF.

A quarter of people voted for SF.

For those trying to be pedantic, the phrase "the people voted for <party name>" doesn't mean literally all the people voted for them, or even that most of the whole population voted for them, funnily enough. It's what most non-bitter people understand is just a fairly standard phrase, used to describe the party that got the most voted from the people. You'll see it used the world over, I promise. I didn't think you'd have needed me to explain that, but here we are.

Sour grapes must just taste so awful :-[

Rossfan

24% isnt "the people" no matter how you Spinn it.
That term is usually applied where a majority voted for someone or something e g the Brits and their Brexit, us and the Same sex Marriage and Abortion referenda(ums?).
Anyway looks like FF and FG will cobble something together and SF can be indignant and continue to complain about everything which is probably where they wanted to be all along.
Davy's given us a dream to cling to
We're going to bring home the SAM

Snapchap

Quote from: Rossfan on March 06, 2020, 01:06:15 PM
24% isnt "the people" no matter how you Spinn it.
That term is usually applied where a majority voted for someone or something e g the Brits and their Brexit, us and the Same sex Marriage and Abortion referenda(ums?).
Anyway looks like FF and FG will cobble something together and SF can be indignant and continue to complain about everything which is probably where they wanted to be all along.

Sour grapes. Boo hoo  :-[

trailer

Of course I am no fan of SF but in this instance they should form a government and actually govern.

weareros

I seem to recall a Fianna Fail TD back in the day quoting, was it Mark Twain, when he said: "the people have spoken, the bastards!" FF were just voted as the most popular party with over 40% of the vote but they had badly lost the election. The government was going to be two smaller parties, FG/Lab. SF are indeed the most popular party (and should be in gov), but it's a bit like saying the mother is the best musician in Crystal Swing, when none of them would be that great. By historical standards, SF/FF/FG are all in very unpopular percentages by any measure and thus none of them have a strong hand when it comes to forming a government. I don't think you could even have another election now with the Coronavirus - don't think people will want politicians coming around giving the knee or the elbow and looking for a vote.

Jeepers Creepers

Quote from: weareros on March 06, 2020, 02:30:30 PM
I seem to recall a Fianna Fail TD back in the day quoting, was it Mark Twain, when he said: "the people have spoken, the bastards!" FF were just voted as the most popular party with over 40% of the vote but they had badly lost the election. The government was going to be two smaller parties, FG/Lab. SF are indeed the most popular party (and should be in gov), but it's a bit like saying the mother is the best musician in Crystal Swing, when none of them would be that great. By historical standards, SF/FF/FG are all in very unpopular percentages by any measure and thus none of them have a strong hand when it comes to forming a government. I don't think you could even have another election now with the Coronavirus - don't think people will want politicians coming around giving the knee or the elbow and looking for a vote.

Is that an actual Mark Twain quote?