Ashers cake controversy.

Started by T Fearon, November 07, 2014, 06:36:39 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

T Fearon

Yes.I am only interested in football ability.

muppet

Quote from: T Fearon on October 26, 2016, 07:39:37 PM
Yes.I am only interested in football ability.

Good!

Maybe Ashers should focus on cake making ability?
MWWSI 2017

seafoid

Quote from: muppet on October 26, 2016, 08:25:32 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on October 26, 2016, 07:39:37 PM
Yes.I am only interested in football ability.

Good!

Maybe Ashers should focus on cake making ability?
That analogy doesn't work. the openly gay Celtic player would need to force his views on an Evangelical Rangers player via a kick in the nuts or something in order to get the law involved.
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

No wides

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/vegetarian-cafe-boycotts-new-5-note-amid-row-it-contains-animal-fat-a3411406.html

So if I go in to buy something and all I have is the new five pound note, surely this is no different from Ashers refusing to make a gay cake!

J70

Quote from: No wides on December 03, 2016, 11:56:47 AM
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/vegetarian-cafe-boycotts-new-5-note-amid-row-it-contains-animal-fat-a3411406.html

So if I go in to buy something and all I have is the new five pound note, surely this is no different from Ashers refusing to make a gay cake!

You can go out and get some different notes or coins. They're not refusing to provide the specific service you're looking to pay for.

Some businesses operate cash only. Some will accept debit cards, but not credit cards and vice versa.

Is there a law against some shop owner refusing to accept payment for 100 pounds worth of goods in pennies?



No wides

They are not refusing it because it isn't legal tender, they are refusing it because it goes against their beliefs, why couldn't the offended gay just go to another cake shop?

J70

The cash-only shopkeeper isn't turning down credit cards because they aren't legal tender either.

If one business has the right to refuse service to a gay person (or Christian or Muslim or black person etc.), then any business has that right. So you could end up with a person with no place to go to get their cake or whatever it is they need.

Look, I'm not saying this vegan place is not over the top. But I don't see what legal rights are being violated.

If there were laws saying any business has to accept all legal tender of the jurisdiction, you might have a case.

No wides

So if the UK issues a five pound note with the image of Stephen Fry would Asher's be ok to refuse it as they don't want to be handling money with gays on it, after all you could get the five pounds changed into coins or go away and get another five pounds?

J70

Quote from: No wides on December 03, 2016, 04:09:30 PM
So if the UK issues a five pound note with the image of Stephen Fry would Asher's be ok to refuse it as they don't want to be handling money with gays on it, after all you could get the five pounds changed into coins or go away and get another five pounds?

It would appear so.

Not living in the UK, I stand to be corrected.

J70

Quote from: hardstation on December 03, 2016, 05:02:25 PM
Quote from: J70 on December 03, 2016, 03:15:32 PM
The cash-only shopkeeper isn't turning down credit cards because they aren't legal tender either.

If one business has the right to refuse service to a gay person (or Christian or Muslim or black person etc.), then any business has that right. So you could end up with a person with no place to go to get their cake or whatever it is they need.

Look, I'm not saying this vegan place is not over the top. But I don't see what legal rights are being violated.

If there were laws saying any business has to accept all legal tender of the jurisdiction, you might have a case.
I don't think Asher's refuse service to gay people. I'm sure a gay person could walk in and purchase a sweet chilli sausage roll in an Asher's bakery. They don't produce goods which carry pro-gay messages, regardless of whether the person requiring the service is gay or not.

Fair enough, but their actions were still a form of discrimination not allowed under the law.

Does this cash thing fall into that bracket? I don't see how.

Has it ever come up before? Have any fundamentalist christians ever refused to deal in Charles Darwin 10 pound notes?

seafoid

Would Ashers produce a cake with a message about climate change on it?
Their brethren evangelical bakers in Missouri probably would not .
Do the Ashers people believe in the Rapture?
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

under the bar

Presumably they wouldn't produce a "Santa is the best thing about Christmas" cake either then? 

By preventing gay people the rights that are afforded by every other forward thinking western nation,  the DUP has effectively hung Christian business community here out to dry. 

red hander

Yer man McArthur's wife, she's fond of the oul camera... she's loving the publicity. Expect her to become a regular in the Belfast Telegraph a la 'inspirational'  female types (ie non-entities with mammaries) like Brenda Shankey, Mairia Cahill and Kerry McLean

screenexile

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-37748681

In their ruling, they said: "The fact that a baker provides a cake for a particular team or portrays witches on a Halloween cake does not indicate any support for either."

The judges also said that Ashers would not have objected to a cake carrying the message: "Support Heterosexual Marriage" or indeed "Support Marriage".

"We accept that it was the use of the word 'gay' in the context of the message which prevented the order from being fulfilled," they said.

"The reason that the order was cancelled was that the appellants would not provide a cake with a message supporting a right to marry for those of a particular sexual orientation.

"This was a case of association with the gay and bisexual community and the protected personal characteristic was the sexual orientation of that community.

"Accordingly this was direct discrimination."

T Fearon

I see Ashers profits topped £1.5m last year.Seems all the gay supremacists have done is boost the profile of this company.