Money, Dublin and the GAA

[Jinxy]

Sounds like classic pub-talk.

[Wildweasel74]

Am sure St Vincents have got 40 senior players; Slaughtneil woukd have 30 odd! Whether they are all fitter than a professional soccer playsr is another matter

[Gael85]

Am sure St Vincents have got 40 senior players; Slaughtneil woukd have 30 odd! Whether they are all fitter than a professional soccer playsr is another matter

Vincents don't have 40 in their senior squad. They have 3 additional football adult teams. How many football teams do Slaughtneil have?

[Wildweasel74]

Would had 3 up to last year! First 40 players combine senior and reserve with over 10 of the reserve good enough for the senior. The 3rds would be to give another 20 odd players fball but i say like most 3rds they there for playing games and likely dont train much!

[manfromdelmonte]

Level playing field, my arse

Even the refs are corrupt

[Lar Naparka]

The number of registered adult players per county is very interesting. Dublin's numerical advantage far less pronounced that the pure population figures, which are obviously a complete nonsense given the amount of people in Dublin with no interest in, and often severe dislike of GAA.

But that 39k is sure to grow and the difference increase, given the ever increasing number of country people moving to Dublin. Would be interesting to see the full list of the home county of current Dubs' players parents



Would be interesting to see these figures further broken down between football, hurling, dual. At first glance it would seem that Galway have twice the pick of Mayo, and when comparing football to football, I'd guess it would be a lot closer.

Its the number of juveniles that are playing I'd be much more interested in for each county. Obviously there will be a drop out due to other sports, it's a bad way of phrasing it but the better players in the main will be the ones to carry on to play as adults and the lesser players weeded out due to being down the pecking order or on b, c and d teams. I've no idea what the numbers of juveniles in each county, maybe it does mimic the adult numbers in terms of differences

I think Hound is one of the very few Dubs that realises that Dublin clubs aren't in the healthy state the statistics might imply.
Looking at the infographic above, it's obvious that Dublin has approx four times as many registered players as Mayo.
But it has ten times its population!
Doing a bit of bog mathematics, you could say that the percentage of Mayo people actively involved in GAA activities is two and a half times that of Dublin.
There are many reasons, in part historical, that are the cause of this low participation rate  but all of them are not outside Dublin/s clubs' control.
There is a fundamental flaw in the Dublin club model and no amount of development grants is going to eradicate this.
A couple of weeks ago, the chairman of Na Fianna club said that the club caters for up to 2,000 juveniles every weekend. (Personally, I can't see this being the case but Jimmy Grey is a well-known and respected GAA man and I can't say the figure he gave is over exaggerated.)
IMO, the main problem I am talking about can be seen here. Out of a starting figure of 2,000, how many are likely to play senior football for the club, never mind intercounty? What percentage is likely to play adult football of any grade. (Junior etc.) How about under 20s or even minor?
The drop out rate is staggering and there's little point in looking elsewhere when the main problem is the sheer size of most Dublin clubs. Mega clubs are ideal for producing elite players but are a very inefficient way of appealing to kids to come and join up unless the they have a few pals joining up also.
The soccer model is far more successful at attracting juveniles than the gah  will ever be and no amount of GPO or whatever will overcome this. There are hundreds of small soccer clubs where the members are drawn for the same couple of streets and everyone knows everybody else. The manager is likely to be someone's da or uncle or neighbour or whatever. No massive infrastructures to .be paid for and maintained- a disused 40 foot containers and a council pitch is all that needed. There's serious rivalry between kids from different primary schools in many cases that must be kept in mind also. You could be pardoned for thinking that the prospect of a hot shower at the end of a game would be an inducement for kids to join up but the exact is very often the case. Children can very very skittish about stripping off in front of strangers.There are lots of similar disincentives that make most kids less likely to join a gah club over a soccer one 
There's another infographic on page two of this thread that will back up what I am saying. During the period 2010-2014 Dublin got ten times as much development funds from the GAA as Mayo did and yet club football in Mayo is on a far more solid footing than their Dublin counterparts.
Lashing money into GPO structures is very inefficient way of putting development money. People who advocate this have very short memories.
The number of males teaching at primary level is dropping rapidly but every boys' school from the foundation of the GAA up to the first years of this century had one or more individuals actively promoting Gaelic games. There was no need for clubs to go looking for new members back then and yet less than 5% of those who played Gaelic for their schools went on to play for their local club.
I was involved in primary school GAA for many years and I'm talking from experience here.
Starving other counties of the cash they could do with and diverting it to Dublin where it's not put to good use is no way to promote GAA games.

[RadioGAAGAA]

Starving other counties of the cash they could do with and diverting it to Dublin where it's not put to good use is no way to promote GAA games.

Agreed.

The biggest role the GAA has in the Ireland of the future is in fighting the oncoming obesity crisis. For that, its all about participation levels and not the 3rd Sunday in September... errr, whatever date its gonna be now.

What is really needed in Dublin (and to be fair, most big towns/cities across the country) is more playing fields. Ideally these would be with new clubs aligned with primary schools. But that is a tough task due to history, or lack of.

[Tyrdub]

Level playing field, my arse

Even the refs are corrupt

Proof??

[manfromdelmonte]

Level playing field, my arse

Even the refs are corrupt

Proof??

The process for appointing them firstly is highly political within the GAA
Referees from bigger counties always seem to favour other big counties.

[GalwayBayBoy]

Ewan MacKenna

So what about that soothing influence of Ciarán Kilkenny... and that boundless pace and effort and energy of Jack McCaffrey... and the breakout and emergence of Brian Howard as the latest in a long line of the next big Dublin thing... and that wastefulness of the Tyrone forwards... and that undisruptable belief of the champions... and that penalty decision by Conor Lane... and that...

Ah forget it.

This is pointless.

For those of us that don't enjoy shopping, this season was again predictably grim. Indeed it's reached the stage where Stephen Cluxton's annual pilgrimage to hoist the Sam Maguire should be accompanied by the beep you hear at a supermarket check-out. There's much talent and much dedication for sure. But this has been in part bought for them.

In fact the mention of population and money by the goalkeeper in his speech was hugely revealing as deep down they know this is an artificial franchise doing no more than they should be given all their in-built advantages.

For instance, for some time it's been hard not to admire Sky's attempt to bring a tactical analysis to their coverage rather than broader brush strokes. Yet it was both funny and depressing to watch their efforts ahead of this rouse of a final. So much wasted work, all to convince themselves so they could convince viewers that the very cornerstone of sport – some semblance of uncertainty around the outcome – was present. It wasn't though, so why should anyone really care anymore? In the hours after the whistle, we asked ourselves that over and over and there's no answer.

We know how this will be met by those with their eyes closed and their hands over their ears that cannot and will not deal with the truth. They'll deflect with those lazy modern words meant to stunt debate so they don't have to think. Bitter. Begrudger. Negative. Jealous. They might even go on social media where a ready-made meme is awaiting to serve their idiocy. However, enough is enough, as our game has been sold from beneath us, with its greatest day reduced to a bounty for those big into sadism.

It's true Dublin winning was never popular in other places, however, there was a time when cheering against them was a form of entertainment regardless of the outcome. It brought out emotion but there's no longer a point as inevitability doesn't cause feelings. It's left it completely soulless. And largely pointless.

This isn't nice to write and there are those in the capital tired of hearing it, but can they imagine what it's like to be the rest living it? You'd want to be a serious schmuck to pull up a poker table where the guy with the pile of chips is best buddies with the dealer and is allowed to see your cards. But that is what the GAA has been asking the rest to do for some time. If they sell their sport on the wonderful notion of identity, then they are also asking the other 31 places to not just have that identity humiliated, but to pay for the privilege, all so their business partner and resident cash cow can celebrate more.

Watching on yesterday, and drifting away due to the numbness of it all, a long lost conversation was recalled. It was 2014, the days after the World Cup final, and as the dust settled a group of journalists gathered in a bar in Rio de Janeiro. A multinational group, they were soccer-ed out so I mentioned football back home and the championship.

The more I explained about Dublin and the way it was set-up for them to win, the others couldn't get over the monopolistic situation and funding discrepancies. These people cover what has become the most shallowly capitalistic sport of all, yet they laughed at what occurs here.


Do you know how much money Dublin were given in games development funding between 2007 and 2017? It was €16,612,847.

That will mean nothing without context so next try and take a stab at what Tyrone got? It was €560,256.

And yet earlier this summer, the GAA said that funding might – MIGHT – be an issue.

And now it's kind of dawning? Rock erodes faster.

What's a greater achievement than Dublin's on-field success though, as it's a large part of that on-field success, was the deal they struck. Funding levels should, of course, have either been based on actual population with the county split to mirror that, or on registered players with the fielding of one team. But it was in 2004, against the wishes and warnings of major players, that the Dublin chairman, with Bertie Ahern's help, managed to get the best of both worlds.

Money based on total population. While fielding just the single intercounty team. What we have today is a consequence of such biased lunacy. With Dublin having the funding of a province, sponsorship greater than any province, with government investment greater than any province, with the numbers of a province, we are told their winning always is to be considered some unbelievable achievement. So stacked is it in their favour that the only thing that would be unbelievable was if they weren't winning.

The reality is a sad one, but this Dublin should have been capturing Railway Cups and not All Irelands. And this Dublin should host its own intercounty championship as other provinces do. The idea of splitting the place is terrible given what they represent to many, but it's the only option as continuing on this way will no longer be accepted by the rest.

Still, through it all, we've been subjected to all the lies and excuses and bullsh*t.

That money doesn't kick the ball over the bar, as if the billion-dollar sports science and coaching industry worldwide is quackery.

That others need to get their house in order as if your local butcher doing much right will see him take over from Tesco.

That Kilkenny and Kerry won lots, as if they were massively favoured to the tune of tens of millions more than the rest.

That not being in awe knocks the effort and volunteerism of those in the county, when all put in the hours only no others get rewards.

That this is a golden generation, while redefining the length of a generation.

That Mayo used to get close, giving the illusion of competition.

Such blusterous nonsense no longer works, meaning those trying to pull off this heist and make you believe it's somehow organic as the conveyor belt runs smoothly will tell you that Stephen Cluxton is the card that will bring the house down. For sure he redefined his position but he was poor yesterday as his team played mostly in third gear and cruised home. And it's not like they won't find another goalkeeper as they have done with every other position.

Remember a few years back when the GAA and Dublin fobbed people off with the notion that when Alan Brogan retires it'd be all over. Soon after it became about Bernard. And then Diarmuid Connolly and Paul Flynn. Well, now there's Jack McCaffrey and John Small and Brian Fenton and Niall Scully and Ciarán Kilkenny and Con O'Callaghan and Paul Mannion and Brian Howard and Eoin Murchan and Colm Basquel and Cormac Costello. And many more young geniuses will follow their brilliance in the years to come.

Of course some of these players have incredible natural ability you cannot teach, but statistically, Dublin should have more of such players given population. And as for other attributes and other players, they have the money to coach them better than the rest. Look at it this way. If France, Spain and Germany with their economic engines joined for soccer, if on top of sponsorship money they were given the majority of Fifa funding too, if they won all before them, would you be celebrating that they won or deriding how they won?

There isn't parity in sport and there are always those that lose out. Look at Leitrim beside Galway and Mayo. Their situation sees them way behind but it wasn't made worse by giving Connacht's biggest and best so much more and telling its worst off to play ball. That's what happened at a national level though and as the gaps increase and more and more fall through the cracks, it's funny to hear people suggest a B championship is a solution. Will it have 31 teams?

Last year Dublin's winning margin per summer game was an astounding 12.5 points, the most of any champion in the modern era. This year it again surpassed the dozen mark. And what's next? With an urban shift it is the major growth centre in Ireland, in the best economic situation, as the wealth gap grows too.

This problem is, therefore, going to get worse. Way worse. And already we were only two freak games away from Dublin winning 14 provincials and six All Irelands on the bounce with that allowed to become the norm.

Intercounty football fell on bad health some years ago and people still celebrated.

Yesterday as the confetti fell, it flat-lined.

[manfromdelmonte]

Nobody is allowed question the funding of the Dublin empire.
Nor the fact they barely have to run any fundraising for their county teams as the sponsorship they rake in more than covers expenses.

[Wildweasel74]

Am still of the opinion that all teams are competing in the senior all Ireland series and gaa funding should be split equally no matter if your Dublin or leitrim

[Syferus]

Am still of the opinion that all teams are competing in the team all Ireland series and gaa funding should be split equally no matter if your Dublin or leitrim

They should be split equally with a spending cap and mileage centrally funded. And HQ need to provide access to expertise to smaller counties if they want to let larger counties uprise the likes of Donie Buckley or Caroline Currid. They need to understand that if they're treating the sport like a product by selling it to Sky, they need to treat the development of it like a product too and try to enforce as much parity as they possibly can.

[Baile Brigín 2]

Nobody is allowed question the funding of the Dublin empire.
Nor the fact they barely have to run any fundraising for their county teams as the sponsorship they rake in more than covers expenses.

Nobody is allowed question it? Really?

[From the Bunker]

What doesn't help matters is the present President of the GAA John Horan is a Dub. From listening to him in interviews, he is in as much denial as the average Dub supporter on the street. And the GAA President is enjoying their success (as he rightly is expected to).