Hong Kong standoff with China over voting rights

Started by seafoid, October 01, 2014, 02:11:02 PM

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seafoid

What do you think ?

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/asia-pacific/calm-descends-as-hong-kong-protesters-await-response-1.1947908

Protesters are calling for Hong Kong Chief Executive Leung Chun-ying to step down. Mr Leung faces a challenge in trying to balance the situation. A serious crackdown could damage confidence in Hong Kong as a financial centre, but a weak response could encourage democracy activists in mainland China, and anger Beijing.

He said that Hong Kong police would be able to maintain security without help from People's Liberation Army (PLA) troops from the mainland.

Beijing has declared the protests illegal and made its opposition clear.

"In today's China, engaging in an election system of one-man-one-vote is bound to quickly lead to turmoil, unrest and even a situation of civil war," the deputy director of China's National People's Congress Internal and Judicial Affairs Committee, Li Shenming, wrote in the People's Daily, the Communist Party's mouthpiece. The Beijing leadership has been censoring news and social media comments about the Hong Kong demonstrations.
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

mikehunt

If the Chinese Army roll into town I wonder how many will stay out and protest. After Tiananmen Square I'd be inclined to scatter.

OakleafCounty

A girl from my university class is there protesting. The protesters seem to have serious resolve!

seafoid

Quote from: mikehunt on October 01, 2014, 03:57:55 PM
If the Chinese Army roll into town I wonder how many will stay out and protest. After Tiananmen Square I'd be inclined to scatter.
But they need HK's financial business

It's very delicate
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

johnneycool

Quote from: OakleafCounty on October 01, 2014, 04:07:26 PM
A girl from my university class is there protesting. The protesters seem to have serious resolve!


The decisions of the hierarchy must be obeyed without question as they are divinely informed at all times.

(c) Tony Fearon 2014

stew

The idiots promised democratic elections and have now reneged, they are going to have to back daccountable! e face or, they can large in with tanks and slaughter the protesters.

The problem here is that they  are going to face serious sanctions if they do that.


A horrible gaggle of arrogant bastards run  China, I hope the world has the balls to hold them accountabme











Armagh, the one true love of a mans life.

muppet

Quote from: stew on October 01, 2014, 05:45:41 PM
The idiots promised democratic elections and have now reneged, they are going to have to back daccountable! e face or, they can large in with tanks and slaughter the protesters.

The problem here is that they  are going to face serious sanctions if they do that.


A horrible gaggle of arrogant b**tards run  China, I hope the world has the balls to hold them accountabme

Somehow I seriously doubt that.

The Chinese could probably collapse the $ within days if they wanted.

MWWSI 2017

macdanger2


Asal Mor

If this had happened in mainland China, the police would undoubtedly have dealt ruthlessly with it, as they have with Uyghur protests in Xinjiang earlier this year. The coverage of the Hong Kong protests in state-controlled Chinese media is minimal. Some short reports about an illegal assembly in Hong Kong but no photos(wouldn't want anyone getting ideas). And internet censorship has been stepped up to stop Chinese people reading about or discussing the protests on Chinese social media. There's a huge list of blocked search items from"umbrella" to "pepper spray". Most Chinese people don't know what happened in Tiananmen square in '89 but the rise of social media(in spite of Government censorship) has made the Communist party more accountable for their actions these days. Lots of cases of government corruption have been highlighted on social media, especially cases of impossibly wealthy local party officials. So it'll be fascinating to see how China deals with this.

under the bar

Looks like what's left of the protestors are now cornered in the University. Those that aren't killed will never be heard of again.

omaghjoe

Not exactly sure what the protests have been about lately, seems like their original demands were met which just seemed to embolden them into increasing the intensity of the disruption.

Eamonnca1

Will be interesting to see how this plays out all right. You've got the sheer power of the Chinese state on one side, and on the other you've got the protesters who know full well that Beijing daren't do anything (like a violent crackdown) that undermines Hong Kong's position as a financial powerhouse. Two very powerful forces facing off.

They'll probably try to contain and quell it, with a few concessions here, a few disappearances there for the most vocal protesters, a few non-lethal beatings to put off the casual protesters, and wait for the movement to run out of stamina. I'd be surprised if another Tiananmen Square massacre would be on the cards, this time around the protest doesn't have any defined leadership that can be decapitated. I'd say this one is more likely to fizzle out. The people have to go back to work and domestic chores some time.

seafoid

https://www.ft.com/content/3fd44d40-bced-11e9-89e2-41e555e96722

"As well as attempting to reconcile totally incompatible political systems, Beijing's decision to leave the economic structure of Hong Kong intact now also looks like a miscalculation. Following the lead of colonial Britain, Beijing has effectively outsourced control of the city to a tiny group of oligarchs who dominate the local economy. For the 25th consecutive year, Hong Kong was named the freest economy in the world in 2019 by the Heritage Foundation, the conservative American think-tank. But each year, this ranking elicits scorn from those who actually live and work in the city, especially from anyone who has ever tried to start a company that might encroach on the business of the tycoon families. Today, the biggest fortunes in Hong Kong rely on control of land and property in what is the most expensive real estate market in the world. The average monthly salary in Hong Kong is around HK$17,500 ($2,230), while the average rent for a one-bedroom flat in the city centre is HK$16,500. Extreme inequality, unaffordability of housing and a huge influx of residents and visitors from the mainland are all contributing factors to the eruption of anger on the streets in recent months."
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

seafoid

https://www.ft.com/content/e5c32e5a-0217-11ea-be59-e49b2a136b8d

Jardine Matheson: the Hong Kong conglomerate under pressure Colonial-legacy group was a winner from territory's boom but unrest is a threat to revenues Protesters have linked some of Jardines' assets with support for Beijing
Don Weinland in Beijing and George Hammond in Hong Kong NOVEMBER 16 2019

When clashes between police and protesters spilled into the heart of Hong Kong's business district this week, one company provided the backdrop. Jardine Matheson's status as one of the largest property owners in Central, as the district is known, is at the heart of a fortune that dates back almost two centuries to the opium trade with China's Qing dynasty. But as unrest engulfs the Asian financial hub, Jardine Matheson is among the territory's largest and most exposed conglomerates. It has been one of the biggest winners from an economic boom in Hong Kong, but one that has also seen inequality spiral and the property market become increasingly unaffordable for many. Assets owned by the 187-year-old company — hotels, numerous office towers, a vast shopping and dining complex, a Mercedes dealership — form the core of Central, one of the densest business districts in the world. Franchises it controls, such as 7-Eleven, are ubiquitous in the area. "The key family conglomerates, including Jardines, are all facing pressure with no visibility as to when these troubles may end," said David Blennerhassett at Ballingal Investment Advisors.

The group derives at least a third of its revenues from the city, according to analysts' estimates, who also point out that a significant portion of that income comes directly from its businesses in Central. Jardines has grown into a conglomerate with more than 460,000 employees and has nearly doubled its annual revenues over the past 10 years to $42.5bn in 2018. [Jardines] functioned in effect as a kind of bridge-builder between Hong Kong and China, between the outside world and China Steve Tsang, professor at the School of Oriental and African Studies The threat of chaos in Hong Kong intensified this week, as the scent of tear gas wafted through the financial district, businesses shut down and banks and law firms sent employees home. Analysts predict revenue at the conglomerate will fall this year, having risen in each year since 2015. The risks for the group deepened in September, when protesters began linking some of Jardines' assets with support for Beijing. Its retail sales holding company Dairy Farm, one of the earliest companies established on Hong Kong island in the 1880s, holds a 50 per cent stake in Maxim's Caterers. Maxim's and its franchises, including Starbucks, became the target of protester attacks after Annie Wu, the daughter of the founder of Maxim's, criticised protesters at the United Nations human rights council. The strains facing the business are evident. Shares in Dairy Farm, which also operates stores including 7-Eleven in Hong Kong, have fallen by almost a fifth since the protests began this year. The company's third-quarter statement, released this month, blamed weak consumer sentiment. But far from being a pro-Beijing company, Jardines has had a fraught relationship for most of its history with the rulers of China, from the Qing dynasty's Daoguang Emperor to the Communist party. Along with Swire Group, Jardines is one of the original foreign trading houses, or "hongs", that smuggled opium into China starting in the 1830s. The trade led to the opium wars with Britain and kicked off a long period of foreign interference in China, referred to today by the Communist party as its "century of shame". Both Jardine and Swire have remained under the control of the families that launched the businesses. Ben Keswick, scion of the family that married into the Jardine family that has owned the business since the 19th century, became the so-called "taipan", or top boss, of Jardine Matheson at the start of the year.

He took over from his uncle Henry Keswick, who held the job since 1972. Barnaby Swire holds a similar role at his eponymous company. The two "hongs" are a final holdover from Asia's bygone colonial era. Many of Jardines' China-based businesses were wiped out in the early 1950s after Mao Zedong and the Communist party came to power in 1949. Following a communist insurgency that culminated in a series of deadly riots in Hong Kong in 1967, the group began a diversification campaign that helped spread its businesses into several new markets across the region. "This is a century-old institution that was here in the 60s when things were really ugly," said one adviser who is familiar with the workings of the group. "I doubt they will make any long-term decisions right at this moment. It's also tough for them to make any sudden changes given how big they are in Hong Kong." Jardines has long exhibited wariness toward China's reach into its home base. Ben Keswick took the top job at Jardine Matheson this year after taking over from his uncle Henry Keswick © Jessica Hromas/Getty When talks between the UK and China kicked off in the early 1980s concerning the handover of control of Hong Kong to Beijing, Jardines was quick to defend itself from Chinese influence by redomiciling from Hong Kong to Bermuda. By 1994, with the handover of Hong Kong just three years away, the company delivered another blow to the city by delisting from the local bourse and relisting in Singapore. But Jardines has since changed tack on China. As the country's economy boomed through the 2000s, the group built up a large business in China.

"[Jardines] functioned in effect as a kind of bridge-builder between Hong Kong and China, between the outside world and China," said Steve Tsang, a professor of Chinese history at the School of Oriental and African Studies. "They have always tried not to get involved in the politics." The company has sought to distance itself from the Hong Kong protests and has made few public comments on them. Its leadership keeps a low profile and declined to speak with the FT for this article. The unrest was set in motion in June when the Hong Kong government proposed passing a bill that would allow people in the city to be extradited to mainland China. In response, more than 1m people took to the streets. From the top floors of Jardine House, the company's flagship office space in Central, it has had a prime view of the protests seizing key areas of Hong Kong's downtown over the past week. Hong Kong Land, Jardine's property holding company that contributed 27 per cent of the group's profits in the first half of 2019, is one of the most visible groups in Central. The property portfolio is the "jewel in the crown" for Jardine, according to one analyst, but is being buffeted by a decline in rents in those Central areas snared by protests. "Jardines is all over Central," said Raymond Cheng, a property analyst at CIMB. "Retail property has definitely been hurt by the protests." Mr Cheng noted that office space, the bulk of Hong Kong Land's portfolio, would hold up better than retail shops. The economic outlook for Hong Kong after months of protests is gloomy, according to analysts. "Recent monthly statistics echo no signs of a quick turnround," Kelvin Lau, Standard Chartered's senior economist for greater China, said of general retail and tourism in Hong Kong after the city posted its first decline in gross domestic product growth since the global financial crisis 10 years ago.

The decline of the city is palpable at Jardines' flagship hotel, the Mandarin Oriental, in Central. Occupancy levels in the hotel were 49 per cent in the third quarter, compared to 71 per cent in the same period in 2018. On Thursday, the roads outside the Mandarin were strewn with bamboo scaffolding poles and bricks that protesters had torn out of the sidewalk. The remains of makeshift barricades the police have used to control crowds still blocked sections of the street. Like many hotels in the area, weekday rates have been reduced for visitors who walk in. The hotel management will even throw in a free room upgrade and a complimentary breakfast. With the Hong Kong government on Friday forecasting the first recession for the city in a decade, Jardine Matheson faces further tests. Additional reporting by Archie Hall in London
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

seafoid

https://www.ft.com/content/a74d9bbd-83b1-47ac-86ee-3102d19e54ff

Hong Kong's pre-eminence threatened by new law
Security provisions appear to sweep away the autonomy that made the territory Asia's financial centre JAMES KYNGE

Beijing's imposition of a tough new national security law in Hong Kong is raising fears that it will sweep away much of the autonomy and freedom that underpin the territory's role as Asia's world city. On the eve of the 23rd anniversary of Hong Kong's handover from UK to Chinese sovereignty, Beijing's top legislative body voted unanimously on Tuesday to insert the new law into Hong Kong's legal code. This was done without releasing a draft of the law for consultation in Hong Kong or running it through the city's legislature. Even the leader of a high-level Hong Kong delegation to Beijing said he had not seen the full text of the law that China's legislature had already passed. "First of all, we haven't seen the details," Henry Tang, a former chief secretary in Hong Kong's government, told journalists. "But all Hong Kong delegates firmly support the law," he added. When the full text was finally published at 11pm Hong Kong time — some 15 hours after it was passed — western commentators slammed it for eroding the "one country, two systems" principle that safeguards the territory's independent governance and legal systems. "The passing of the national security law by China's legislature absolutely undermines the principle of 'one country, two systems'," said Roderic Wye, associate fellow at Chatham House, a UK think-tank. He added that under the "Basic Law" that serves as a de facto constitution for Hong Kong, such legislation should have been passed by Hong Kong's legislature. "It threatens confidence in the rule of law since due processes have been overridden and the wideness and vagueness of the new provisions will enable authorities to act pretty much as they please," added Mr Wye, a former China expert at the UK Foreign Office. Beijing imposed the new law in a bid to restore order to a territory that has been roiled by months of mass protests — which sometimes flared into violence — since mid-2019.





A mainland Chinese businessman in Hong Kong, who spoke on condition of anonymity, said he fully supported the new law as a means to end "chaos" on the streets. But critics are concerned that the new law gives Beijing too much influence. For instance, one clause provides for the establishment of an "Office for Safeguarding National Security" in Hong Kong. Effectively controlled by Beijing, the office is charged with "overseeing" and "guiding" Hong Kong authorities in their efforts to protect national security. Crimes defined as secession, subversion, terrorism and collusion with foreign forces under the new law carry a maximum penalty of life in prison, with various shorter terms for lesser offences.  But the law is often vague about what constitutes an offence. In the section concerning "collusion with . . . external elements", the law says it is an offence to engage in activities that provoke "hatred among Hong Kong residents toward the Central People's Government".

In a separate section, the law makes clear that Hong Kong authorities should strengthen supervision over the media and internet, potentially jeopardising freedoms of expression. Other clauses suggest an extraterritorial reach. The law says its scope includes both people in Hong Kong and those not in the territory, meaning that foreign nationals who speak in favour of independence for the region, or advocate sanctions on China, could be prosecuted upon entering Hong Kong or mainland China. However, a well-connected former mainland Chinese official, who declined to be identified, said that the law would be enforced with a relatively light touch. "We are going to track down the ringleaders and troublemakers and snuff out their threat before they can really get going," he said. "But for everyone else, life will be pretty much as normal, aside from the fact that there will be much less chaos on the streets." james.kynge@ft.com
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU