Britain's Greatest Foe - Michael Collins ?

[Atticus_Finch]

Maradona 

Speaking of their enemies if it had been a poll of England's greatest foes then you would imagine William Wallace might have got a mention but i think he was plying his trade a good bit before the Acts of Union brought about GB.  But also I'm well aware there are a few porkies told to make the film the great show that it is. ... but even if you don't believe that he could shoot fire balls from his eyes and bolts of lightning from his arse  he is still a good foe !

Well yep, it's quite hard to be Britain's greatest foe when Britian doesn't exist yet.

Hitler would be a bit of a dodgy one, it would be pretty bad political capital if Hitler was seen to be voted as "the greatest xyz".

Michael Collins is a politcally safe choice in the UK, led a small army against a colonial power, led a nation that's now an EU partner of the UK, and the IRA will get the blame for his death.  Plus there was a big budget Hollywood biopic about him.

Hence the bit highlighted in bold ...

Agree with you on Adolf they wouldn't want to be announcing him as the winner.

I see they've gone with Rommel - just to give his lads a bit of representation.

[haranguerer]

Some foe aright!! Didnt they f**king hammer him in the easter rising, and then he signed away half his country!!

With enemies like that, who needs friends??

[AZOffaly]

Some foe aright!! Didnt they f**king hammer him in the easter rising, and then he signed away half his country!!

With enemies like that, who needs friends??

He didn't sign away half the country, just 6 bitter counties

[LondonCamanachd]

Maradona 

Speaking of their enemies if it had been a poll of England's greatest foes then you would imagine William Wallace might have got a mention but i think he was plying his trade a good bit before the Acts of Union brought about GB.  But also I'm well aware there are a few porkies told to make the film the great show that it is. ... but even if you don't believe that he could shoot fire balls from his eyes and bolts of lightning from his arse  he is still a good foe !

Well yep, it's quite hard to be Britain's greatest foe when Britian doesn't exist yet.

Hitler would be a bit of a dodgy one, it would be pretty bad political capital if Hitler was seen to be voted as "the greatest xyz".

Michael Collins is a politcally safe choice in the UK, led a small army against a colonial power, led a nation that's now an EU partner of the UK, and the IRA will get the blame for his death.  Plus there was a big budget Hollywood biopic about him.

Hence the bit highlighted in bold ...

Agree with you on Adolf they wouldn't want to be announcing him as the winner.

I see they've gone with Rommel - just to give his lads a bit of representation.

And "suicided" in 1944 so it can be claimed he wasn't really a Nazi.  And not an insurgent leader, which might lead to awkward questions about the UK's current foreign policy.

[AZOffaly]

I just scored the equalising point!! 1692 each. Is your man Attaturk the fella the stadium in Istanbul is named after?

[LondonCamanachd]

I just scored the equalising point!! 1692 each. Is your man Attaturk the fella the stadium in Istanbul is named after?

Yes.

Ataturk's an assumed name of the Turkish Army officer Kemal Mustafa who led a coup of young officers against the Ottoman regime and also defeated the Greek Army on the Anatolian peninsula.  And defeated the British Army as well.  I think that Britian might have been allied to Greece in the Balkan conflicts that followed the World War 1, I'm not sure, Balkan history is a bit murky in that period.

[moysider]

Still think it should be Napoleon. Only he and Hitler and Philip II ever threatened to invade Britain itself. The rest were more colonial rebellions.

[Hardy]

I just scored the equalising point!! 1692 each. Is your man Attaturk the fella the stadium in Istanbul is named after?

Attaboy!

[LondonCamanachd]

Still think it should be Napoleon. Only he and Hitler and Philip II ever threatened to invade Britain itself. The rest were more colonial rebellions.

Or Charles Stewart, who invaded with an army of 7.  Luckily, there was already one waiting for him in the Highlands, otherwise it would've all been a bit embarrassing.

Or the Dutch Navy, who didn't threaten to invade, they just got on with it, and managed to sink the Royal Navy at anchor.  (that may have been post Union of the crowns but pre-Acts of Union)

Philip II also sailed against England, rather than Britain.

[seafoid]

Truman made them give up India. 
Hitler brought them into a crippling war
Thatcher introduced neoliberalism

[Evil Genius]

Hitler would be a bit of a dodgy one, it would be pretty bad political capital if Hitler was seen to be voted as "the greatest xyz".

Hitler won't have been included because this is a list of Military, not Political, opponents, complied by the National Army Museum.

Indeed, Hitler's threat to Britain was at its greatest when he wasn't interfering with his Generals' military operations.

[Evil Genius]

Some foe aright!! Didnt they f**king hammer him in the easter rising, and then he signed away half his country!!

With enemies like that, who needs friends??

In a list of Britain's military opponents, Collins is actually a worthy contender (imo), since he personally devised and conducted a means (Guerilla Warfare) of countering an enemy whose forces were, by any conventional measure, much stronger than his own.

That said, I don't think he can rank above George Washington, or even Andrew Jackson (an Ulster-Scot, btw  ), from the American War of Independence alone. Plus I am presently reading "The Great Game", a history of Anglo-Russian rivalry over India, which makes a good case for another from the list, Akhbar Khan.

And from what little I know of him, Kemal Attaturk was a great General, as well a great Statesman (although Greeks and Armenians etc would no doubt have much to say about this latter accolade).

That all said, other than as a way of publicising the authors (NAM), these surveys are about as meaningful as the Eurovison Song Contest.

[LondonCamanachd]

Plus I am presently reading "The Great Game", a history of Anglo-Russian rivalry over India, which makes a good case for another from the list, Akhbar Khan.

Is that the Peter Hopkirk book?

I presume you can see why a central Asian leader wouldn't be the National Army Museum's choice right now.  The list will have been chosen to elicit the least controversy possible.

[muppet]

Some foe aright!! Didnt they f**king hammer him in the easter rising, and then he signed away half his country!!

With enemies like that, who needs friends??

He didn't sign away half the country, just 6 bitter counties

Jebus! Code red, code red!

[brokencrossbar1]

We caught the Turk, leading by 6 now!!!