Rangers FC to go into administration

[Main Street]

The SFA are today making charges against Rangers, some of which relate to Craig Whyte not being a fit and proper person to run a club.
Isn't it a bit strange that a rogue chairman has to prove himself unfit by his actions with the club before the SFA will consider the merits of his character in the first place to run a club? It's almost as if the SFA just took Ranger's word for it, that this conman/chancer was in fact a bona fide businessman and simply turned off the tv when those journalist investigations were raising serious questions about Whyte that deserved a serious inquiry by the SFA.

When it comes to reviewing the conduct of the SFA one can be both rational and paranoid at the same time.

[Lamh Dhearg Alba]

thats fine about the flag - but the puzzling thing is why did you mention it in the first place (an attempt at inferring something that has backfired)
again please let me know which song you are referring to about blowing up people - I am intrigued as I dont think I know this one...
simple question. you keep banging on about it, so you must know what it is..

It's not puzzling in the slightest if you are not a simpleton. I have referred you back to the original post countless times but it doesn't seem you bothered to look, so here it is.  "The vast majority of the fans of other clubs couldn't give a shit about Irish politics yet since time immemorial have been subjected to morons brandishing red hand flags/tricolours". There is absolutely no suggestion that either flag is sectarian. As for the songs you seemed to accept yourself on the previous page that you were being pedantic on this issue and as such I'm not sure why you are now returning to it. I don't need to explain it you again, I have already made the point for your benefit in a number of posts. 

I don't agree with everything that Main Street, Deiseach and London Camanachd have posted in this debate but I think they have all made some very good and reasoned points. The same could not be said of you and I won't waste any more time replying to you.

[Lamh Dhearg Alba]

LondonCamanachd

I ended up ordering that map and it arrived yesterday. I never new that Kingussie meant Ceann Gaoitheach or windy mountain.  Kirkintilloch is the Gaidhlig equivalent of Ceathar Ceann Tulach .  The Scottish names are fascinating.  There seems to be an original  Gaidhlig name for at least 75%  of the towns on the map. The English names are just like colonial overlays.

It doesn't! Kingussie is Ceann a' Ghiuthsaich - the head of the pine forest. The spread of Gaelic placenames in Scotland is certainly very interesting with names appearing in places where some people now claim Gaelic was never spoken. The irony is, as pointed out by London Camanachd earlier on, that in the islands where Gaelic is now at it's strongest  the majority of the placenames are of Norse origin.

[Lamh Dhearg Alba]

The SFA are today making charges against Rangers, some of which relate to Craig Whyte not being a fit and proper person to run a club.
Isn't it a bit strange that a rogue chairman has to prove himself unfit by his actions with the club before the SFA will consider the merits of his character in the first place to run a club? It's almost as if the SFA just took Ranger's word for it, that this conman/chancer was in fact a bona fide businessman and simply turned off the tv when those journalist investigations were raising serious questions about Whyte that deserved a serious inquiry by the SFA.

When it comes to reviewing the conduct of the SFA one can be both rational and paranoid at the same time.

I thought the most staggering comments regarding Whyte came from David Murray himself. He said how hard it was to get info on Whyte's background and that a google search would only bring up one article . As Roddy Forsyth says in this excellent article http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/rangers/9146997/Rangers-in-administration-Its-too-late-to-send-in-the-clowns....html there were plenty of questions over Whyte in the public domain at the time of the takeover. Murray simply ignored them such was his haste to get shot of Rangers. He has no credibility anymore.

The idea of Rangers directors ever being "fit and proper" is a strange one anyway, this is the club that operated a sectarian signing policy for over a century. Whyte wasn't fit and proper but he was just the latest in a long line of Ibrox directors to whom that applied.

Another piece that caught my eye was from former Celtic chairman Michael Kelly, one of those who landed Celtic in the sh*t back in the 90's. He takes a very conciliatory tone indeed. http://www.scotsman.com/news/michael-kelly-helping-rangers-would-be-sporting-thing-to-do-1-2173011   

Kelly himself blew a lot of his credibility back in the 90's (Cambuslag ) but this quote is still revealing "After the initial wave of pleasure at Rangers' discomfiture most Celtic fans realise the necessity of restoring them to health. Those who still resist this notion are on the fringes. They are the ones who sing most passionately about Celtic's history. Here is a piece of that history which they do not know but which might convince them that the club should extend a helping hand to their great rivals. Rangers were once before in financial difficulty. It was in the 1920's when my grandfather, James Kelly (a former Scotland centre-half), was chairman of Celtic. Rangers had a temporary cash flow problem and their board came out to his house in Blantyre to explain the problem and seek help. Celtic gave them an unconditional short-term loan. The fact that Rangers felt able to ask and that Celtic willingly responded indicates that both clubs were aware of their inter-dependence. Murray sought to supplant that symbiosis – possibly because he never came to Rangers as a supporter. He would have been the first to boast that Rangers could prosper outwith the Old Firm.".

And that, ultimately, is why Celtic will make sure Rangers are allowed back to the top table.

[Main Street]

 On the contrary, every other club but Celtic desperately needs the ticket money that Rangers' travelling support provides, so much so that if Rangers don't pay up  or delay with paying for those tickets, the respective club is gasping for cash, ready to go belly up. Same goes for those clubs who can sell the odd player onto Rangers.
Celtic can survive quite nicely for a few years while waiting for the New Rangers to crawl up the leagues.
Meanwhile other clubs outside the SPL can benefit financially from their encounters with NRfc.

[LondonCamanachd]

@MS Been away from the world with the Norovirus, wouldn't wish it on Nacho Novo.

I don't think we'll agree or see eye to eye, but I should reiterate, there is no widespread hate or dislike of irish people in Scotland.

Celtic supporters are not told in Aberdeen "they're in the wrong f**king country", the inference, if you're not looking for bigotry, is that they appear to be lost, as Athenry is not in Scotland - it's not an expression of anti-Irish hatred in any way shape or form.  It also gets opened up when rangers indulge in their songs, and - more tongue-in-cheek, when Dundee Utd fans start singing about Barcelona.

[LondonCamanachd]

The clear accountable fact of history in Scotland, is that Celtic fc has been there as a focal point for Irish and Irish/Scottish ethnic groups and has had a immeasurable positive effect in raising the dignity of the diaspora. It may not be a crime to be Irish in Scotland, neither is discrimination a significant social factor these days, however it surely is regarded as a lower form of humankind to be Irish, it's something to taunt, to mock. Go to Aberdeen, the natives taunt the Celts with 'you're in the wrong country'.
Football is just another place where that hatred/ mocking ignorance from Scots towards Irish ethnicity, manifests itself.

In the mainstream of Scottish media opinion, this is what passes for intelligent comment,
"The problem with a large section of the Celtic support is that they do not think of themselves as Scots. They will tell you that they are Irish or Scots-Irish, whatever that's supposed to be."
'this fixation with Ireland which so many Scots have, makes my blood boil.'

When Scotland played Ireland 7 or 8 years ago at Hamden pk, how the redkneck Scottish bumpkins were outraged by the sight/sound of thousands of native Scots supporting Ireland.

Quite simply it boils down to one main prejudice held by the more primitive Scots
against those who have  Irish ethnicity in Scotland  or a Scots/Irish identity.
When that Celtic fan accepted that UEFA award for the supporters, he said  something to the effect that 'all over Europe we are welcomed, yet at home everywhere we go its hostile,  every expression/ celebration of our culture, our identity, is seen as a threat, even a sectarian threat.'

Yeah, maybe those all those Celts should keep quiet about their Irishness. How dare they sing old rebel folk songs, sing the 'soldiers song', wave the tricolour  
Even in Lisbon 1967, those Celtic hordes were waving the tricolour, a perceived blight on many a scottish tv screen 

irony?

[LondonCamanachd]

The SFA are today making charges against Rangers, some of which relate to Craig Whyte not being a fit and proper person to run a club.
Isn't it a bit strange that a rogue chairman has to prove himself unfit by his actions with the club before the SFA will consider the merits of his character in the first place to run a club? It's almost as if the SFA just took Ranger's word for it, that this conman/chancer was in fact a bona fide businessman and simply turned off the tv when those journalist investigations were raising serious questions about Whyte that deserved a serious inquiry by the SFA.

When it comes to reviewing the conduct of the SFA one can be both rational and paranoid at the same time.

It's because the SFA has no defined Fit and Proper Person test, in the manner that the English FA does.

[Main Street]

The clear accountable fact of history in Scotland, is that Celtic fc has been there as a focal point for Irish and Irish/Scottish ethnic groups and has had a immeasurable positive effect in raising the dignity of the diaspora. It may not be a crime to be Irish in Scotland, neither is discrimination a significant social factor these days, however it surely is regarded as a lower form of humankind to be Irish, it's something to taunt, to mock. Go to Aberdeen, the natives taunt the Celts with 'you're in the wrong country'.
Football is just another place where that hatred/ mocking ignorance from Scots towards Irish ethnicity, manifests itself.

In the mainstream of Scottish media opinion, this is what passes for intelligent comment,
"The problem with a large section of the Celtic support is that they do not think of themselves as Scots. They will tell you that they are Irish or Scots-Irish, whatever that's supposed to be."
'this fixation with Ireland which so many Scots have, makes my blood boil.'

When Scotland played Ireland 7 or 8 years ago at Hamden pk, how the redkneck Scottish bumpkins were outraged by the sight/sound of thousands of native Scots supporting Ireland.

Quite simply it boils down to one main prejudice held by the more primitive Scots
against those who have  Irish ethnicity in Scotland  or a Scots/Irish identity.
When that Celtic fan accepted that UEFA award for the supporters, he said  something to the effect that 'all over Europe we are welcomed, yet at home everywhere we go its hostile,  every expression/ celebration of our culture, our identity, is seen as a threat, even a sectarian threat.'

Yeah, maybe those all those Celts should keep quiet about their Irishness. How dare they sing old rebel folk songs, sing the 'soldiers song', wave the tricolour  
Even in Lisbon 1967, those Celtic hordes were waving the tricolour, a perceived blight on many a scottish tv screen 

irony?

No, just obvious hyperbole.

[Main Street]

Celtic supporters are not told in Aberdeen "they're in the wrong f**king country", the inference, if you're not looking for bigotry, is that they appear to be lost, as Athenry is not in Scotland - it's not an expression of anti-Irish hatred in any way shape or form.

Celtic supporters are not told in Aberdeen "they're in the wrong f**king country"

Maybe because those Aberdeen fans are not that dumb to curse their own country, but instead would aim the profanity at the target.

Sure, when I call a 'Traveller' a 'Knácker', I really don't hate him, I didn't use a profanity:
Take any taunt in isolation and one can say in defence, 'why are you being so sensitive?', 'it's your fault for being so sensitive that's making an issue out of nothing'. 'When Aberdeen fans do their taunts (just another version of the 'Famine Song'), it's all a bit of a laugh really.'

What a terrible misunderstanding it all has been. How on earth could members of the Irish ethnic group in Scotland actually believe their ethnicity was being taunted?


Let me direct you to the definition as used by  Scotland against Racism,  which in general can apply

'Racism can be defined in different ways, but for the purposes of this website we have used the following definition:

Conduct, words or practices which disadvantage or advantage people because of their colour, culture or ethnic origin. It can be subtle or overt, intentional or unwitting.
Racism can therefore manifest itself in many different ways, not just through people's language or physical actions.
Racism and discrimination can take different forms, including direct, indirect and institutional.
Racism has often been related to particular economic and social circumstances when migrants have been perceived by the resident population to represent some form of economic or social threat.
Racism today is experienced by many communities, both visible and non-visible minorities. During the 18th and 19th centuries, and even still in the 20th century, hostility and prejudice was expressed towards migrants from Ireland, Italy and even the Highlands of Scotland.'

[Main Street]

The SFA are today making charges against Rangers, some of which relate to Craig Whyte not being a fit and proper person to run a club.
Isn't it a bit strange that a rogue chairman has to prove himself unfit by his actions with the club before the SFA will consider the merits of his character in the first place to run a club? It's almost as if the SFA just took Ranger's word for it, that this conman/chancer was in fact a bona fide businessman and simply turned off the tv when those journalist investigations were raising serious questions about Whyte that deserved a serious inquiry by the SFA.

When it comes to reviewing the conduct of the SFA one can be both rational and paranoid at the same time.

It's because the SFA has no defined Fit and Proper Person test, in the manner that the English FA does.

Well maybe so, but the SFA have the constitutional right to investigate his integrity as a fit and proper person and since the name Whyte appeared on the football scene, they had plenty of substantial accusations flying around to inspire them to do so.

SFA Handbook http://www.scottishfa.co.uk/resources/documents/SFAPublications/ScottishFApublications2011-12/Scottish%20FA%20Handbook.pdf
article 10.2

[camanchero]

thats fine about the flag - but the puzzling thing is why did you mention it in the first place (an attempt at inferring something that has backfired)
again please let me know which song you are referring to about blowing up people - I am intrigued as I dont think I know this one...
simple question. you keep banging on about it, so you must know what it is..

It's not puzzling in the slightest if you are not a simpleton. I have referred you back to the original post countless times but it doesn't seem you bothered to look, so here it is.  "The vast majority of the fans of other clubs couldn't give a shit about Irish politics yet since time immemorial have been subjected to morons brandishing red hand flags/tricolours". There is absolutely no suggestion that either flag is sectarian. As for the songs you seemed to accept yourself on the previous page that you were being pedantic on this issue and as such I'm not sure why you are now returning to it. I don't need to explain it you again, I have already made the point for your benefit in a number of posts. 

I don't agree with everything that Main Street, Deiseach and London Camanachd have posted in this debate but I think they have all made some very good and reasoned points. The same could not be said of you and I won't waste any more time replying to you.

...therein lies the problem

You brought up the notion of the Ieish flag and equated it with the red hand loyalist flag - and you call other people 'simpleton' ( resorting to that means you are obv very lever - you smoke and swear as well I expect!)

However you may wish to interpret my mention of being pedantic ( I'll spell it out for you - that was your cue to admit there are no such songs that celebrate blowing people up- but you didn't take the lifeline ) so unless you can name any such song ( and if it exists then I've never heard it sung at Celtic games - and all rebel songs I can think of celebrate martyrs who have been killed rather than bloodthirsty songs about killing - but folk like you don't want to admit this as it distorts and ruins your attacking point on Celtic fans) then stop trying to hype up what does not exist , just because you wish it were so!

Think you jockos need to have a harder look at your own people and culture. The sectarianism against catholic schools and against Irish and English residents/visitors of the country. Not isolated incidents either and not in Glasgow!!

[Denn Forever]

Dundee Utd. 2  Rangers 1

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17323889

Will Administration come soon enough?

5Live doing a program on the Rangers' situation on Monday at 7pm.  Should be interesting.

[seafoid]

LondonCamanachd

I ended up ordering that map and it arrived yesterday. I never new that Kingussie meant Ceann Gaoitheach or windy mountain.  Kirkintilloch is the Gaidhlig equivalent of Ceathar Ceann Tulach .  The Scottish names are fascinating.  There seems to be an original  Gaidhlig name for at least 75%  of the towns on the map. The English names are just like colonial overlays.

It doesn't! Kingussie is Ceann a' Ghiuthsaich - the head of the pine forest. The spread of Gaelic placenames in Scotland is certainly very interesting with names appearing in places where some people now claim Gaelic was never spoken. The irony is, as pointed out by London Camanachd earlier on, that in the islands where Gaelic is now at it's strongest  the majority of the placenames are of Norse origin.

Gaidhlig was spoken by the court in Edinburgh until the reign of James IV (1473-1513)
Looking at the placenames it must have been spoken as far south as Galloway although in the south and the far north on the east coast they spoke either Norse or some kind of English.   
Basically the Scots were Gaels  but it is hard to admit this even today.

[LondonCamanachd]

LondonCamanachd

I ended up ordering that map and it arrived yesterday. I never new that Kingussie meant Ceann Gaoitheach or windy mountain.  Kirkintilloch is the Gaidhlig equivalent of Ceathar Ceann Tulach .  The Scottish names are fascinating.  There seems to be an original  Gaidhlig name for at least 75%  of the towns on the map. The English names are just like colonial overlays.

It doesn't! Kingussie is Ceann a' Ghiuthsaich - the head of the pine forest. The spread of Gaelic placenames in Scotland is certainly very interesting with names appearing in places where some people now claim Gaelic was never spoken. The irony is, as pointed out by London Camanachd earlier on, that in the islands where Gaelic is now at it's strongest  the majority of the placenames are of Norse origin.

Gaidhlig was spoken by the court in Edinburgh until the reign of James IV (1473-1513)
Looking at the placenames it must have been spoken as far south as Galloway although in the south and the far north on the east coast they spoke either Norse or some kind of English.   
Basically the Scots were Gaels  but it is hard to admit this even today.

Not 'basically', so much as 100% correct.  The Scots were Gaels who came from Ireland.