Assaults at GAA games

[Sportacus]

Terrible events. 
The refereeing situation is a mess, they are set up to fail.  Congress passes stupid rule changes and the disciplinary committees let people away with murder.  Result is that many talented people give refereeing a miss and we end up with an overall poor standard of refereeing and a downward spiral. The system creates the mess and there's been a complete lack of leadership to address it.  Too many GAA people would rather do 'wink and a nod' than face into what needs to be done.

[Milltown Row2]

Terrible events. 
The refereeing situation is a mess, they are set up to fail.  Congress passes stupid rule changes and the disciplinary committees let people away with murder.  Result is that many talented people give refereeing a miss and we end up with an overall poor standard of refereeing and a downward spiral. The system creates the mess and there's been a complete lack of leadership to address it.  Too many GAA people would rather do 'wink and a nod' than face into what needs to be done.

So explain who are these talented people giving refereeing a miss?

Outlay what you feel makes a person a better ref?

You're a sensible poster btw so I'm not taking a shot at you, just want to know the profile you feel is needed.

I know plenty ref's who have played at Croke some ex county players and lots that played senior at club level, they still get abuse and called cheats!

[Ciarrai_thuaidh]

This was very disturbing news to hear and when you see the footage going around, it's just not good enough. Hope the 2 people injured are ok and the kids watching (and let's not forget, they are kids..this was a bloody u16 game) are ok and not too shook.

A poster mentioned a few posts back - we've a huge problem all over the country now. There have been refs harassed and assaulted in virtually every county I'd say in last few years. If we don't take hard action now, we'll struggle to have referees and run games pretty soon. Everyone has to realise that surely?
So as mentioned already, I think we need strict enforcement of a zero policy approach for mentors entering pitches - straight automatic red card, also a club who does what the mentors of the club did last night - which lets be honest must be fairly scary for the ref being hounded after the game. For that, the team must be removed from that competition and the club hit with an automatic fine.

Much more that could be said and done - I 100% think we have made sh*t of refereeing in recent years in Gaelic football with all these rule changes and it hasn't helped BUT the standard of refereeing at inter county level even does frustrate me, so a lot more referee training is needed aswell, but that's down the list compared to the above in my view.

[Sportacus]

Terrible events. 
The refereeing situation is a mess, they are set up to fail.  Congress passes stupid rule changes and the disciplinary committees let people away with murder.  Result is that many talented people give refereeing a miss and we end up with an overall poor standard of refereeing and a downward spiral. The system creates the mess and there's been a complete lack of leadership to address it.  Too many GAA people would rather do 'wink and a nod' than face into what needs to be done.

So explain who are these talented people giving refereeing a miss?

Outlay what you feel makes a person a better ref?

You're a sensible poster btw so I'm not taking a shot at you, just want to know the profile you feel is needed.

I know plenty ref's who have played at Croke some ex county players and lots that played senior at club level, they still get abuse and called cheats!

What I mean is the overall talent pool is shrinking because the culture and practise in the GAA is a deterrent when it should be an incentive. Just rank and file sensible GAA people, mostly past players, who if the system supported refs, would potentially put their hand up and give it a go. It follows on (just my opinion) that the 'overall' standard isn't as good as it could be. Notwithstanding some individual refs who may be very good.
And just one specific issue - clubs and counties all try their hand at Appeals, even when the offence is absolutely bare faced.  Certain people are 'admired' for their ability to get people off the hook (ironically not least a prominent Tyrone figure in days gone by).  It's a  ridiculous culture and it plays its part in undermining refs authority.  Rightly send a man off on a Sunday - take dogs abuse for your decision - then watch a committee a week later overturn your decision. Why would you!

[rrhf]

Excellent post from the Kerry Man among many good ones.
Lets wise up, bite your lip and allow the 31 on the field to get on with it...
(in a black humourous way that is not a reference to Kilmacud Crokes but obviously the ref)

[general_lee]

Is there a bit of conflation going on?

Not to take away from the seriousness of the situation; or from the very obvious problem we have at club level when it comes to respecting match officials, verbal abuse, assaults etc... but it's not like this sort of incident is a regular occurrence - especially at a juvenile match. A couple of posters have provided some context with regards to the alleged perpetrator who it seems has some behavioural issues. Talk of a referee strike is a bit ott.

I recently heard abuse being shouted at a referee at an under 8s tournament, by fully grown men. This is not the rare occurrence you think it is.

I'm talking about someone pulling a knife - it's unheard of.
Verbal abuse is rampant.

[JohnDenver]

I've never been to an amateur or Sunday league soccer game - does the same go on there or is it worse at GAA games?

Never heard of a referee being stabbed at the soccer, so no.

But why even start the whataboutery

I don't think O'Neill is going for the "whataboutery" angle. Seemed like a genuine question to me.

I too would be interested in the answer. I am imaging there wouldn't be the same vitriol as you don't have the same parish vibes and that the soccer games are a gather up of people from everywhere with less spectators.

Referees went on strike in Dublin and last year. Abuse happens. The difference is it isn't tolerated.

And spare us the 'we are more passionate' justification

What shite are you spouting now? Who is the "we" ?

I am saying that GAA club matches probably have more of a crowd and the crowd has more of a connection to the team given the parish rule compared to an amateur soccer team who can transfer players in from everywhere.

I am also none the wiser as to whether the same abuse and vitriol is directed at referees in the amateur soccer league games.

[cornerback]

The referee in this case refereed on behalf of Ballinderry; has he changed clubs or was there a conscious decision by Tyrone county board to get an "outside" referee for championship games?

[Itchy]

I think we are all missing the point here, if we remove the gent who stabbed the parties there was a serious issue in  itself which lead up to this in the form of players and mentor haranguing a ref and stopping him from leaving the field of play.

Managers and clubs really need to take a look at their conduct when a manager challenges evry decision a ref makes, the players and bench join in, when the players and bench join in it starts to get the people behind the wire started and therefore makes a rod for a ref. How often do you see a manager or player jostled off the pitch by their supporters due to a error in judgment during play. Managers use refs to mask their own deficiencies at times all to protect their £70 per training session 'expenses'.

At the moment our attitudes are pathetic and I would support a nationwide strike from our refs to get people to pull their head out of their a**

I could not agree more with this post.

I agree with that but I do believe a more hollistic approach is needed as there are lots of issues which are all related.

- Managers and players not respecting the referee
- abuse from supporters
- Vagueness & complexity of the rules
- Inconsistency in refereeing as a result of above
- Lack of young people/former players getting involved due to all of the above
- pressure and effort that goes into preparing a team, hard to take a tight loss if there is perceived injustice

You can see all this is inter-related and it really needs a big coming together of people with expertise to sort it out. A protest might seem like a good idea (maybe it is) but if you want robust long term solutions more than that is needed

The referee prepares just as much, these 'injustices' is just an excuse, most of the time the well prepared manager doesn't even know the rules same for well prepared players, I'm bored at times and shocked at how many times I've to explain the rule to an adult.

Referee blows his whistle, rightly or wrongly, you move on. Explain to me the logic of ranting to the ref? I'd be interested in wanting to know how that'll help with the next 50/50 call

I am sorry to say that shouting and roaring at a ref does have an effect. You have heard the term "hometown" decision? Well its the same thing. Referees are human and can be effected and intimidated by shouting. And while i respect a referee puts a lot of effort in I do not accept that it comes close to the efforts teams put into training and preparation.

[Louther]

Listen to commentary round games now - Sunday game, live games, podcasts, newspapers etc and large part of it can be focused on decisions the ref made. And this is at senior inter county level.

Then listen to managers after games and they go after refs. Glen Ryan recently, McGeeney last weekend.

Go on social media and you've ex players slating refs and decisions they have made in games. This is picked up on by the click bait sites and they make stories out of it. It's lazy and easy narrative. They have no fear of slating a ref, as it's easy and doesn't take much analysis to criticise a decision that others agree with. Will they go after players or managers and call out their mistakes or preformance to the same degree or with the same language? Never, cause they want to be buddies or be able to meet them wherever and be their friend or have some connection to them.

All this filters back to the ref, often on his own running a game at any level in club football. People - supporters, mgt and players - see all of the above, added to the emotion of their own involvement and connection to the game and they think it gives them fair game to give their opinion.

This isn't an excuse but there needs to a collective approach to change this and not just lip service. The whole culture and commentary towards refs need to change. This is a shocking incident and I hope those affected recover soon.

[J70]

I think we are all missing the point here, if we remove the gent who stabbed the parties there was a serious issue in  itself which lead up to this in the form of players and mentor haranguing a ref and stopping him from leaving the field of play.

Managers and clubs really need to take a look at their conduct when a manager challenges evry decision a ref makes, the players and bench join in, when the players and bench join in it starts to get the people behind the wire started and therefore makes a rod for a ref. How often do you see a manager or player jostled off the pitch by their supporters due to a error in judgment during play. Managers use refs to mask their own deficiencies at times all to protect their £70 per training session 'expenses'.

At the moment our attitudes are pathetic and I would support a nationwide strike from our refs to get people to pull their head out of their a**

Well said.

[Milltown Row2]

This was very disturbing news to hear and when you see the footage going around, it's just not good enough. Hope the 2 people injured are ok and the kids watching (and let's not forget, they are kids..this was a bloody u16 game) are ok and not too shook.

A poster mentioned a few posts back - we've a huge problem all over the country now. There have been refs harassed and assaulted in virtually every county I'd say in last few years. If we don't take hard action now, we'll struggle to have referees and run games pretty soon. Everyone has to realise that surely?
So as mentioned already, I think we need strict enforcement of a zero policy approach for mentors entering pitches - straight automatic red card, also a club who does what the mentors of the club did last night - which lets be honest must be fairly scary for the ref being hounded after the game. For that, the team must be removed from that competition and the club hit with an automatic fine.

Much more that could be said and done - I 100% think we have made sh*t of refereeing in recent years in Gaelic football with all these rule changes and it hasn't helped BUT the standard of refereeing at inter county level even does frustrate me, so a lot more referee training is needed aswell, but that's down the list compared to the above in my view.

So with your knowledge what do you feel needs to be done with this training for ref's? And from your knowledge of inter county referees, what do they do with regards to training assessments and support?

Also it's very strange but oddly not that the narrative starts with someone stabbing somebody and then goes to ref's need more training? Like self defence training might be part of the new training, or stab vest becoming part of the new kit!

[FermPundit]

The referee in this case refereed on behalf of Ballinderry; has he changed clubs or was there a conscious decision by Tyrone county board to get an "outside" referee for championship games?

I think referees can move to other counties if the matches fees are higher - Tyrone referees definitely do games in Fermanagh

[JoG2]

The referee in this case refereed on behalf of Ballinderry; has he changed clubs or was there a conscious decision by Tyrone county board to get an "outside" referee for championship games?

I think referees can move to other counties if the matches fees are higher - Tyrone referees definitely do games in Fermanagh

Happens all the time, Derry has Tyrone and Donegal refs on their list.

One of the text pieces from the WhatsApps last night was that Chicken 'fixed the game for Cookstown to win'... Jesus wept

[marty34]

Is there a bit of conflation going on?

Not to take away from the seriousness of the situation; or from the very obvious problem we have at club level when it comes to respecting match officials, verbal abuse, assaults etc... but it's not like this sort of incident is a regular occurrence - especially at a juvenile match. A couple of posters have provided some context with regards to the alleged perpetrator who it seems has some behavioural issues. Talk of a referee strike is a bit ott.

I recently heard abuse being shouted at a referee at an under 8s tournament, by fully grown men. This is not the rare occurrence you think it is.

I'm talking about someone pulling a knife - it's unheard of.
Verbal abuse is rampant.

Key point is where do we, as GAA people, draw the line?

Is physical abuse not ok but verbal abuse ok?

Do we say to kids who are getting bullied, take the verbal bullying but tell someone when it start to get physical?

Good opportunity now for the GAA, and especially Jarlath Burns, to draw up a proper code of conduct and tie it in with disclipline.

Over to the GAA now.