Kerry v Mayo - Super 8s Round 1

[macdanger2]

Yes and the starting position of the attacking midfielder - i.e. coming from behind - is generally more advantageous for that type of kickout.  In this day and age a goalkeeper should not be making kickouts contestable if possible; he should be given as much of an advantage to his own players as possible.  I agree though that we should have been more aggressive for some of the kickouts the last day.  Also, Vaughan's aerial ability is very limited so that certainly didn't help.

Why do you say that the attacking midfielder is usually coming from behind? Surely both midfielders are free to position themselves as they see fit. As an aside, Coen / Boyle / Keegan  should have been in there blocking the run of Moran for these kickouts instead of letting him have free reign

If Clarke was able to ping a long kickout accurately, O'Shea or Vaughan wouldn't need to worry where Moran or Spillane positioned themselves.  Moran knew the type of kickout that was coming so ensured that he was coming at it from behind. 
In general it is too risky for a defending midfielder to deliberately play his man from behind on his own kickouts.  Unless he has 100% confidence in the keeper's ability to reach him with a long kick over the head of his marker.

Absolutely a pinged kickout is better so it can be won uncontested.

I disagree on the "too risky" bit though, Moran was winning every ball uncontested, it literally couldn't get much worse.

I'll leave it at this but imo, the blame for the kickout fiasco is collective for every player 1-12 and in particular the coaching team. It'll be interesting to see how we deal with this if Meath push up at the weekend or when Donegal (as they surely will) push up in castlebar.

[Drummer]

Yes and the starting position of the attacking midfielder - i.e. coming from behind - is generally more advantageous for that type of kickout.  In this day and age a goalkeeper should not be making kickouts contestable if possible; he should be given as much of an advantage to his own players as possible.  I agree though that we should have been more aggressive for some of the kickouts the last day.  Also, Vaughan's aerial ability is very limited so that certainly didn't help.

Why do you say that the attacking midfielder is usually coming from behind? Surely both midfielders are free to position themselves as they see fit. As an aside, Coen / Boyle / Keegan  should have been in there blocking the run of Moran for these kickouts instead of letting him have free reign

If Clarke was able to ping a long kickout accurately, O’Shea or Vaughan wouldn’t need to worry where Moran or Spillane positioned themselves.  Moran knew the type of kickout that was coming so ensured that he was coming at it from behind. 
In general it is too risky for a defending midfielder to deliberately play his man from behind on his own kickouts.  Unless he has 100% confidence in the keeper’s ability to reach him with a long kick over the head of his marker.

Absolutely a pinged kickout is better so it can be won uncontested.

I disagree on the "too risky" bit though, Moran was winning every ball uncontested, it literally couldn't get much worse.

I'll leave it at this but imo, the blame for the kickout fiasco is collective for every player 1-12 and in particular the coaching team. It'll be interesting to see how we deal with this if Meath push up at the weekend or when Donegal (as they surely will) push up in castlebar.

I agree that the blame doesn't lie solely at Clarke's feet (excuse the pun).  But a kickout that hangs high in the air is of little or no benefit to any kickout strategy in the modern game.  Hence you don't see it from any of the keepers these days.
Yes indeed will be interesting to see what we do in the next couple of games.

[highorlow]

All Donie Buckley needed to do was to watch the last ten minutes of the Armagh game to spot our weakness. Had Armagh pushed up on us earlier we were beaten that day.

Darren Coen and COC should have been told to head out to the half forward line to give Clarke an option with the long ones.

[kerryforsam19]

Hennelly be back in nets. I hear Matthew Flanagan from Balla called up
Might he be in nets the next day?

[moysider]

Yes and the starting position of the attacking midfielder - i.e. coming from behind - is generally more advantageous for that type of kickout.  In this day and age a goalkeeper should not be making kickouts contestable if possible; he should be given as much of an advantage to his own players as possible.  I agree though that we should have been more aggressive for some of the kickouts the last day.  Also, Vaughan's aerial ability is very limited so that certainly didn't help.

Why do you say that the attacking midfielder is usually coming from behind? Surely both midfielders are free to position themselves as they see fit. As an aside, Coen / Boyle / Keegan  should have been in there blocking the run of Moran for these kickouts instead of letting him have free reign

If Clarke was able to ping a long kickout accurately, O'Shea or Vaughan wouldn't need to worry where Moran or Spillane positioned themselves.  Moran knew the type of kickout that was coming so ensured that he was coming at it from behind. 
In general it is too risky for a defending midfielder to deliberately play his man from behind on his own kickouts.  Unless he has 100% confidence in the keeper's ability to reach him with a long kick over the head of his marker.

Apart from the detail about the kickouts there was other stuff. The dogs in the street knew that AOS was carrying an injury into last 2 games and we were scrabbling around for another midfielder to go with him. Kerry are not stupid. 3 of our best performers in league final - Durcan, Ruane and Diarmuid O Connor were out as well. Younger lads that bring great energy.  Keegan playing injured as well. Kerry management got the perfect storm to attack Mayo on the day and it was a no brainer. Press up. Make us kick long into a struggling midfield and it was like a monkey picking low hanging fruit.
They also knew they could target Stephen Coen and Vaughan and burn them for pace and open things up. They have Donie Buckley in there who knows the Mayo lads inside out and what their limitations are.
When we lost the battle around the middle third (which we usually win and we lost it from the start ) our forwards were easily mopped up by defenders that were clued in to what was happening up the field. 

[Lar Naparka]

I hope it's not an omen of what's to come but there have  been more replies to a fairly straightforward I posted here than the total number of posts on the Mayo v Meath thread to date. When I logged onto the board a wee while ago, we had nearly 40 responds to my question; Some very instructive and a few going off on flights of fancy.
For instance, here's what I posted again:
"Anyway, if there is a problem with Clarke's restarting, why not get somebody else? There's no law, ASAIK, that says a goalie must kick the ball out. "
I only asked a simple question and put it up for discussion.
I did not give my own opinion one way or the other. I tried to make it as idiot-proof as possible but once again blast 05 chipped in to prove I need to set the bar a whole lot lower.
I can't see anyone other than the keeper taking kick outs in the modern game, except under unusual circumstances.
Did we have "unusual circumstances" last Sunday? Again, I just ask the question, that's not a firm opinion one way or the other. I wasn't on the field or even the sideline so I didn't understand why Mayo were getting cleaned out on Clarke's restarts.
Thanks to moysider, part of the mystery has been solved. I didn't realise that AOS was carrying an injury into the game. But one question answered means, for me, that one still remains.
If Donie Buckley engineered Kerry's match ups, what did Horan do to counteract this? Dammit all, he surely remembered that Bukley would be marking Kerry's cards. Or did he? I hate to admit it, but I am starting to think that he is losing the plot.

[blast05]

Given that Aidan O'Shea is carrying an ankle injury, i wonder would wearing knee length shorts like they used to wear in the 40's and 50's help him.
This is not my opinion. I'm only asking the question 

[Blowitupref]

I doubt Mayo management are foolish enough to play A O'Shea for a full 70 minutes in the last number of games if he's injured.  I think last Sunday proved Vaughan is no midfielder and shouldn't be played there again in such important game and Mayo's half back line really struggled with the pace of Kerry's runners, Mayo were better in midfield 2nd half once Seamus O'Shea was introduced and i can imagine the two brothers will be the midfield partnership v Meath.

On Lee Keegan he hasn't been the same player since those hip operations and understandably so.

[moysider]

I doubt Mayo management are foolish enough to play A O'Shea for a full 70 minutes in the last number of games if he's injured.  I think last Sunday proved Vaughan is no midfielder and shouldn't be played there again in such important game and Mayo's half back line really struggled with the pace of Kerry's runners, Mayo were better in midfield 2nd half once Seamus O'Shea was introduced and i can imagine the two brothers will be the midfield partnership v Meath.

On Lee Keegan he hasn't been the same player since those hip operations and understandably so.

Er, you've seen the last 2 games? They had no choice.
We're on Old Mother Hubbard territory now. The cupboard is bare.

[thejuice]

Lads, you do know that there's a game this weekend. I was really forward to having a nice wee chat with my good friends from Mayo but it's like a ghost town in the Meath vs Mayo thread. And here you all are still talking about the last game. I have to say I'm a bit hurt and a bit disappointed. 

[macdanger2]

Lads, you do know that there's a game this weekend. I was really forward to having a nice wee chat with my good friends from Mayo but it's like a ghost town in the Meath vs Mayo thread. And here you all are still talking about the last game. I have to say I'm a bit hurt and a bit disappointed. 

Tbf, you should have expected this, sure aren't we still talking about 1996!!!

[johnpower]

The irony of the weekend is that Kerry fans will be shouting on Mayo and Mayo fans will hope for a Kerry win to make round 3 easier

[Mayo4Sam14]

The irony of the weekend is that Kerry fans will be shouting on Mayo and Mayo fans will hope for a Kerry win to make round 3 easier

I cant imagine kerry fans will be shouting on Mayo

[johnpower]

The irony of the weekend is that Kerry fans will be shouting on Mayo and Mayo fans will hope for a Kerry win to make round 3 easier

I cant imagine kerry fans will be shouting on Mayo

I for one will be , was on the hill for the 1996 replay and love the Enthusiasm of the Mayo News podcast

[Mayo4Sam14]

The irony of the weekend is that Kerry fans will be shouting on Mayo and Mayo fans will hope for a Kerry win to make round 3 easier

I cant imagine kerry fans will be shouting on Mayo

I for one will be , was on the hill for the 1996 replay and love the Enthusiasm of the Mayo News podcast

A meath win would probably suit kerry better