More Dissident-Republican Activity

[pintsofguinness]

I think personally that SF would gain a lot more credibility if it was to state publicly that the tactic of targeting police officers in the the 69-94 era was wrong! Totally wrong, counter-productive and bordering on the sectarian. It would help add credibility to any condemnations of attacks such as those on Friday. However, there are those now in positions of community leadership - all card carrying republicans - whose role in the targeting the police left a lot to be desired. The attack on Mr Heffron was something that republicans would have thought to have been 'fair game' up until 1994 ("it's not the person, it's the uniform you are targeting"), so the 'evil' argument is something that a lot of Born-Again Republicans use when in fact they should look long and hard at a campaign that was guilty of the same - even worse!

Right after FF say the targeting of policemen between 1918-1922 was wrong?

[Hurler on the Bitch]

I think personally that SF would gain a lot more credibility if it was to state publicly that the tactic of targeting police officers in the the 69-94 era was wrong! Totally wrong, counter-productive and bordering on the sectarian. It would help add credibility to any condemnations of attacks such as those on Friday. However, there are those now in positions of community leadership - all card carrying republicans - whose role in the targeting the police left a lot to be desired. The attack on Mr Heffron was something that republicans would have thought to have been 'fair game' up until 1994 ("it's not the person, it's the uniform you are targeting"), so the 'evil' argument is something that a lot of Born-Again Republicans use when in fact they should look long and hard at a campaign that was guilty of the same - even worse!

Surely that would be impossible ? It might take another generation or so for this to happen ?

IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN. There is this old SHITE that the IRA in days of yore (1916, 1921, 1922, 1956, early 1970s etc) were proud and upstanding fearless men. All crap! There is - and never will be - a clean war. The IRA men of the last epoch are now being turned into clean cut and brave defenders of the Nationalist people. History is being re-written by SF and the truth will be lost in a load of bollox! Just as the IRA tried to blame the Brits on Enniskillen, Bloody Friday etc, by the year 2016, the whole of the c**k-ups over the last 30 years will have been designated as Their Fault! ie - the Brits.
SF want a truth commission so as they can expose the collusion in the dirty war. That type of 'Truth' will only c ome when republicanism faces up to a few home truths - i.e. that the 'Long War' was a waste of time; "Victory" was never going to be realised; and basically that the targeting of police satisfied only a blood lust from within the hawk base of the IRA.

[Milltown Row2]

What is their objective? united Ireland, brits/prods out?  are we to go for another 30 odd years before this is achieved and another 'group' starts up and fights for something else?

I've been very lucky growing up in a troubled land and avoiding the pitfalls, would be sad to see my kids grow up in something that has the potential to maim and kill loved ones.

wont be long before our prisons will be full of young men

[Myles Na G.]

What is their objective? united Ireland, brits/prods out?  are we to go for another 30 odd years before this is achieved and another 'group' starts up and fights for something else?

I've been very lucky growing up in a troubled land and avoiding the pitfalls, would be sad to see my kids grow up in something that has the potential to maim and kill loved ones.

wont be long before our prisons will be full of young men

If these young men are the ones going about planting bombs under police officers' cars, the sooner the better.

[longrunsthefox]

If they condemn the attacks now orangeman then yeah they're hypocrites, it was fine when the PIRA were killing people.

Things evolve and change. What happened before and took off in 1969 was against a backround of inequality and total oppresion of nationalists. While it is not  a perfect world, it can hardly be said that conditions are now the same or that the only recourse is armed insurrection. Maybe the ceasefire should have come before 1994 but what were nationalsits to do before that, lie down and be trampled underfoot by Unionist supremacy... no jobs, no rights, housing etc... and when they protested were battered off the streets.
Different times called for different actions...   

[Hurler on the Bitch]

If they condemn the attacks now orangeman then yeah they're hypocrites, it was fine when the PIRA were killing people.

Things evolve and change. What happened before and took off in 1969 was against a backround of inequality and total oppresion of nationalists. While it is not  a perfect world, it can hardly be said that conditions are now the same or that the only recourse is armed insurrection. Maybe the ceasefire should have come before 1994 but what were nationalsits to do before that, lie down and be trampled underfoot by Unionist supremacy... no jobs, no rights, housing etc... and when they protested were battered off the streets.
Different times called for different actions...

Jesus Christ! - did you get that from "The ABSOLUTE Beginners' Guide to Irish Politics"? There is nobody from the Nationalist community - and increasingly few from a Unionist perspective - who will argue against the existence of institutionalised discrimination, but hold on! I think that the Brits and the Orange State got the message about 1973. PS - getting "battered of the streets" did call for radical tactics, but when it meant targeting off-duty RUC officers in front of their kids etc, then a bit of thought was called for. The sectarian state of Northern Ireland was bad; but, perhaps, some of the methods used to destroy it were worse. The high moral ground in Northern Ireland my friend is now a very crowded piece of land.

[pintsofguinness]

If they condemn the attacks now orangeman then yeah they're hypocrites, it was fine when the PIRA were killing people.

Things evolve and change. What happened before and took off in 1969 was against a backround of inequality and total oppresion of nationalists. While it is not  a perfect world, it can hardly be said that conditions are now the same or that the only recourse is armed insurrection. Maybe the ceasefire should have come before 1994 but what were nationalsits to do before that, lie down and be trampled underfoot by Unionist supremacy... no jobs, no rights, housing etc... and when they protested were battered off the streets.
Different times called for different actions...

Jesus Christ! - did you get that from "The ABSOLUTE Beginners' Guide to Irish Politics"? There is nobody from the Nationalist community - and increasingly few from a Unionist perspective - who will argue against the existence of institutionalised discrimination, but hold on! I think that the Brits and the Orange State got the message about 1973. PS - getting "battered of the streets" did call for radical tactics, but when it meant targeting off-duty RUC officers in front of their kids etc, then a bit of thought was called for. The sectarian state of Northern Ireland was bad; but, perhaps, some of the methods used to destroy it were worse. The high moral ground in Northern Ireland my friend is now a very crowded piece of land.

You'd know all about that. 

[boojangles]

If they condemn the attacks now orangeman then yeah they're hypocrites, it was fine when the PIRA were killing people.

Things evolve and change. What happened before and took off in 1969 was against a backround of inequality and total oppresion of nationalists. While it is not  a perfect world, it can hardly be said that conditions are now the same or that the only recourse is armed insurrection. Maybe the ceasefire should have come before 1994 but what were nationalsits to do before that, lie down and be trampled underfoot by Unionist supremacy... no jobs, no rights, housing etc... and when they protested were battered off the streets.
Different times called for different actions...

Totally agree. The f**k wits involved in Fridays act wouldn't know what oppression,inequality or human rights are. Call me a hypocrite all ya want but there is no way anybody can compare what happened on Friday to what was happening back in the 60's or 70's.
Expecting the full brunt of EG/Myles etc I firmly believe that relative peace on this island would never have been achieved without the armed struggle,like it or not, I think thats a fact.

[Maguire01]

If they condemn the attacks now orangeman then yeah they're hypocrites, it was fine when the PIRA were killing people.

Things evolve and change. What happened before and took off in 1969 was against a backround of inequality and total oppresion of nationalists. While it is not  a perfect world, it can hardly be said that conditions are now the same or that the only recourse is armed insurrection. Maybe the ceasefire should have come before 1994 but what were nationalsits to do before that, lie down and be trampled underfoot by Unionist supremacy... no jobs, no rights, housing etc... and when they protested were battered off the streets.
Different times called for different actions...

Totally agree. The f**k wits involved in Fridays act wouldn't know what oppression,inequality or human rights are. Call me a hypocrite all ya want but there is no way anybody can compare what happened on Friday to what was happening back in the 60's or 70's.
Expecting the full brunt of EG/Myles etc I firmly believe that relative peace on this island would never have been achieved without the armed struggle,like it or not, I think thats a fact.

What about what happened in the 80s and 90s?

[longrunsthefox]

If they condemn the attacks now orangeman then yeah they're hypocrites, it was fine when the PIRA were killing people.

Things evolve and change. What happened before and took off in 1969 was against a backround of inequality and total oppresion of nationalists. While it is not  a perfect world, it can hardly be said that conditions are now the same or that the only recourse is armed insurrection. Maybe the ceasefire should have come before 1994 but what were nationalsits to do before that, lie down and be trampled underfoot by Unionist supremacy... no jobs, no rights, housing etc... and when they protested were battered off the streets.
Different times called for different actions...

Jesus Christ! - did you get that from "The ABSOLUTE Beginners' Guide to Irish Politics"? There is nobody from the Nationalist community - and increasingly few from a Unionist perspective - who will argue against the existence of institutionalised discrimination, but hold on! I think that the Brits and the Orange State got the message about 1973. PS - getting "battered of the streets" did call for radical tactics, but when it meant targeting off-duty RUC officers in front of their kids etc, then a bit of thought was called for. The sectarian state of Northern Ireland was bad; but, perhaps, some of the methods used to destroy it were worse. The high moral ground in Northern Ireland my friend is now a very crowded piece of land.

For starters I aren't your friend... you really think the Brits/Orange state (same thing...rem collusion  ) got the message in 1973... wat age are you? 21?  I ain't justifying everything the Provos did, I'm saying  something that could be justified in one era may be a lot harder to justify it now. Anyway, you protest too much whatever your baggage is.

[Hardy]

To those differentiating between the moral basis of killing pre-1994 and now, what are the substantive differences between Sunningdale and Good Friday?

[Edit] Remiss of me to omit my good wishes to GAA man Peadar Heffron and my hope for his full recovery.

[Hurler on the Bitch]

If they condemn the attacks now orangeman then yeah they're hypocrites, it was fine when the PIRA were killing people.

Things evolve and change. What happened before and took off in 1969 was against a backround of inequality and total oppresion of nationalists. While it is not  a perfect world, it can hardly be said that conditions are now the same or that the only recourse is armed insurrection. Maybe the ceasefire should have come before 1994 but what were nationalsits to do before that, lie down and be trampled underfoot by Unionist supremacy... no jobs, no rights, housing etc... and when they protested were battered off the streets.
Different times called for different actions...

Jesus Christ! - did you get that from "The ABSOLUTE Beginners' Guide to Irish Politics"? There is nobody from the Nationalist community - and increasingly few from a Unionist perspective - who will argue against the existence of institutionalised discrimination, but hold on! I think that the Brits and the Orange State got the message about 1973. PS - getting "battered of the streets" did call for radical tactics, but when it meant targeting off-duty RUC officers in front of their kids etc, then a bit of thought was called for. The sectarian state of Northern Ireland was bad; but, perhaps, some of the methods used to destroy it were worse. The high moral ground in Northern Ireland my friend is now a very crowded piece of land.

For starters I aren't your friend... you really think the Brits/Orange state (same thing...rem collusion  ) got the message in 1973... wat age are you? 21?  I ain't justifying everything the Provos did, I'm saying  something that could be justified in one era may be a lot harder to justify it now. Anyway, you protest too much whatever your baggage is.

I am not your friend either. So nah, na, ne, nah nah!!!

(a) So, IRA man booby-traps RUC car in 1970s and kills officer all in the name of a United Ireland and that was ALRIGHT - considering what they (the Brits) put us through! and (b) Militant republican booby-traps PSNI car in 2010 and maims officer all in the name of a United Ireland and that is BAD? because the Brits are ok now! (keep us in community-based jobs)   .. The fact is that (a) was roundly condemned back then as "f**k wits who wouldn't know what oppression, inequality or human rights are" ... especially by constitutional Nationalists. Today, those involved in (b) are condemned by mainstream republicans as "f**k wits who wouldn't know what oppression, inequality or human rights are" .. The more things change, the more they stay the same. Either the past is something that is being view through rose-tinted spectacles or, Heaven forbid, we are all members of the SDLP / Workers Party now?

ps - no agenda, just Devil's Advocate - a bit of debate on the past is not a bad thing.

[magickingdom]

violence can never be justified when it can achieve absolutely nothing, that is the case in ni today. that may or may not have been the case in the past

[windyshepardhenderson]

firstly, i wish a speedy recovery to the officer injured and wholeheartedly condemn those who did it, they represent no one...

As for this debate regarding attacks on police during the troubles and attacks nowadays, jees its like black and white.
How are SF hyprocites if they fully support the police now? As you all know during the troubles they were quite opposed to the RUC and with good reason too. The actions of the RUC were downright disgraceful and they were responsible for so much turmoil including collusion with paramilitaries and murder, put simply they were not an acceptable police force. the PSNI whilst not perfect do not engage in such activity.

[Hurler on the Bitch]

firstly, i wish a speedy recovery to the officer injured and wholeheartedly condemn those who did it, they represent no one...

As for this debate regarding attacks on police during the troubles and attacks nowadays, jees its like black and white.
How are SF hyprocites if they fully support the police now? As you all know during the troubles they were quite opposed to the RUC and with good reason too. The actions of the RUC were downright disgraceful and they were responsible for so much turmoil including collusion with paramilitaries and murder, put simply they were not an acceptable police force. the PSNI whilst not perfect do not engage in such activity.

We are talking about tactics (not the small mint flavoured sweets) and the fact remains that if it was wrong in the 70s and 80s, it is wrong today. You are guilty of generalising in that the RUC was, according to your own logic, one worthy and legitimate target. Catholic, Protestant, male, female etc, all up to their necks in the "conspiracy" and therefore deserving of what they got. So it was okay to shoot and bomb all police prior to 1994, but things are okay now.