More Dissident-Republican Activity

Started by sammymaguire, November 19, 2009, 06:02:24 PM

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Gnevin

Quote from: stew on November 23, 2009, 08:28:45 PM

As for Gnevin, he knows feck all about the north and what goes on, he has demonstrated that time and time again in his posts over the past year.

That's a shocking partitionist post, no true Gael would ever say that!


;)
How about that for Nordie speak :)
Anyway, long story short... is a phrase whose origins are complicated and rambling.

brokencrossbar1

Quote from: Gnevin on November 23, 2009, 08:24:40 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on November 23, 2009, 08:18:05 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on November 23, 2009, 08:10:28 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on November 23, 2009, 08:07:27 PM
There is good reason to question the length of time that this "hoax" took to be sorted out.  Gnevin, with respect, I have experienced disarming of bombs near my house and it didn't take them 10 hours to disarm a bomb never mind a hoax.  Each individual case must stand on its own facts but given experience questions need to be asked. 

There are movements behind the scenes that will never make it to the news headlines but all events are instrinsically linked.  The hoax bomb in a van a few weeks back, the "bomb" in Forkhill, this here today, the check points where Willie Frazer was able to walk around with impunity and film, there are too many coincidences.  As I said earlier, there is a lunatic element but there is assistance or at the very least a watchful eye within the ranks keeping things on a certain course.
So why don't the RIRA call BS on the Brits. Imagen the PR . The Brits caught trying to keep the war going etc.

As i said earlier Gnevin, the history of splinter groups and in particular, and Republicans as a whole, shows a fair level of touting/infiltration.  I would suggest that there is some level of that at a senior level within the group and they are directing things down certain pathways or keeping the police informed of what is happening.  Given the nature of the individulas who are involved in what is happening they are not "true" republicans in the old fashioned sense and would sell their grannies to keep the dope coming their way.  They are a threat, but at this stage a relatively insignificant one.  They will be broken up from the inside out and that is the way to succeed against them.
An informant is an entirely different prospect to POG's the police are planting the bombs them self nonsense and if their is an informant they are doing there job correctly as this and other bombs have be discovered .

I think that it is more than an informant, more someone directing things a certain way.  There are 3-4 people who are needed off the streets completely and there is a need to finally destroy the notions of armed force resistance.  The only to do that is to get the big guns out as there are no more crazies seen out there at the minute.  If the security forces can get these individuals "decommissioned" this will pave the way for devolution of policing etc and a finalisation of the current stage of the peace process.  There is not the political will at the minute within SF to push for a united Ireland and DUP know that but they are afraid of the dissidents.  Once these armed dissidents are gone then there will be a lot of political movement.

Gnevin

Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on November 23, 2009, 08:31:19 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on November 23, 2009, 08:24:40 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on November 23, 2009, 08:18:05 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on November 23, 2009, 08:10:28 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on November 23, 2009, 08:07:27 PM
There is good reason to question the length of time that this "hoax" took to be sorted out.  Gnevin, with respect, I have experienced disarming of bombs near my house and it didn't take them 10 hours to disarm a bomb never mind a hoax.  Each individual case must stand on its own facts but given experience questions need to be asked. 

There are movements behind the scenes that will never make it to the news headlines but all events are instrinsically linked.  The hoax bomb in a van a few weeks back, the "bomb" in Forkhill, this here today, the check points where Willie Frazer was able to walk around with impunity and film, there are too many coincidences.  As I said earlier, there is a lunatic element but there is assistance or at the very least a watchful eye within the ranks keeping things on a certain course.
So why don't the RIRA call BS on the Brits. Imagen the PR . The Brits caught trying to keep the war going etc.

As i said earlier Gnevin, the history of splinter groups and in particular, and Republicans as a whole, shows a fair level of touting/infiltration.  I would suggest that there is some level of that at a senior level within the group and they are directing things down certain pathways or keeping the police informed of what is happening.  Given the nature of the individulas who are involved in what is happening they are not "true" republicans in the old fashioned sense and would sell their grannies to keep the dope coming their way.  They are a threat, but at this stage a relatively insignificant one.  They will be broken up from the inside out and that is the way to succeed against them.
An informant is an entirely different prospect to POG's the police are planting the bombs them self nonsense and if their is an informant they are doing there job correctly as this and other bombs have be discovered .

I think that it is more than an informant, more someone directing things a certain way.  There are 3-4 people who are needed off the streets completely and there is a need to finally destroy the notions of armed force resistance.  The only to do that is to get the big guns out as there are no more crazies seen out there at the minute.  If the security forces can get these individuals "decommissioned" this will pave the way for devolution of policing etc and a finalisation of the current stage of the peace process.  There is not the political will at the minute within SF to push for a united Ireland and DUP know that but they are afraid of the dissidents.  Once these armed dissidents are gone then there will be a lot of political movement.
100% agree with that.
Anyway, long story short... is a phrase whose origins are complicated and rambling.

Maguire01

Quote from: stew on November 23, 2009, 08:28:45 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 23, 2009, 08:07:39 PM
Quote from: pintsofguinness on November 23, 2009, 07:34:31 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 23, 2009, 07:23:35 PM
Quote from: pintsofguinness on November 23, 2009, 06:48:27 PM
You're wasting your time stew, sure the police can do no wrong in some of these boy's eyes.   ::)
Yes, you're definitely wasting your time if your only arguments are:
1 - police = bad
2 - "these boys think the police can do no wrong"

That's a lot easier than actually discussing the issues at hand - i.e.

What have the police done wrong in this instance?

Given the limited info we have in the news report (and any expert knowledge you may have), what would be an acceptable amount of time to deal with an incident like this, if not 8 hours?
I never said police = bad.  I am suspicious about their actions and their intent and their willingness to hold up an area for so long.
Considering their past, why is that so hard to believe?

When I think of all those checkpoints I've had to sit at down through the years and the endless questions and bullshit, and it was all for my own safety! Silly me.  ::)
You're more than suspicious though. You're basically saying they didn't need to take 8 hours in Armagh, with no real knowledge of the detailed facts or basis for that argument, other than your past experience of checkpoints - many years ago at this stage.

I spent quite a bit of time waiting at checkpoints over the years as well, but I don't see any reason to point the finger at the police for taking a certain amount of time to reopen an area after an alert, especially without knowing more than the most vague details.

It was ten hours not eight, I too have seen them in action defusing bombs and/or coming to the conclusion it was a hoax, it never came close to ten hours.
I will never trust the police in the north no matter their make up, they have assisted loyalist terrorists in murders and have actually killed the very people they were supposed to protect themselves, they held us at checkpoints many times because they were crooked b**tards that loved to mess with Catholics, I dont trust them and I think that since they are not making the money they used to make they are coming up with new and interesting ways to make a few extra bob.

8 hours is too long, tens hours is  far  too long, 2 hours should be more than enough time to figure out a feckin hoax.

As for Gnevin, he knows feck all about the north and what goes on, he has demonstrated that time and time again in his posts over the past year.
Re the first bit in bold, what were the start and finish times of the operation that made you conclude that it was 10 hours?

Re the second bit - you clearly can't be objective then.

pintsofguinness

Quote from: Maguire01 on November 23, 2009, 08:27:21 PM
Quote from: pintsofguinness on November 23, 2009, 08:18:26 PM
Maguire, maybe I'm not just a gullible as some.
It's not about being gullible.
We can base our opinions today on what the police/army did in the past. But why stop at the police and army - using the same logic, should we not also assume that Sinn Fein are no different than they were 20 years ago?
Sinn Fein have demonstrated they've changed, not that I have any love for them.  The police and army have not. 


And at no stage did I say the police were planting bombs.
Which one of you bitches wants to dance?

pintsofguinness

Quote from: Gnevin on November 23, 2009, 08:22:35 PM
Quote from: pintsofguinness on November 23, 2009, 08:18:26 PM
Quote from: Gnevin on November 23, 2009, 08:10:28 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on November 23, 2009, 08:07:27 PM
There is good reason to question the length of time that this "hoax" took to be sorted out.  Gnevin, with respect, I have experienced disarming of bombs near my house and it didn't take them 10 hours to disarm a bomb never mind a hoax.  Each individual case must stand on its own facts but given experience questions need to be asked. 

There are movements behind the scenes that will never make it to the news headlines but all events are instrinsically linked.  The hoax bomb in a van a few weeks back, the "bomb" in Forkhill, this here today, the check points where Willie Frazer was able to walk around with impunity and film, there are too many coincidences.  As I said earlier, there is a lunatic element but there is assistance or at the very least a watchful eye within the ranks keeping things on a certain course.
So why don't the RIRA call BS on the Brits. Imagen the PR . The Brits caught trying to keep the war going etc.
because people like you would say they're lying.  How many times that the PIRA said they weren't involved in things, the Northern bank robbery for instance, do you believe the PIRA weren't involved? and there's been dozens of other incidents.  What sort of cuckoo land do you live in?


Maguire, maybe I'm not just a gullible as some.
Who cares what I believe . It would be up to the IMC to investigate or are they a tool of empire too?
So you wouldnt believe them, you wouldnt be alone.  So what point would there be? You're placing a lot of faith in the IMC.
You haven't a clue do you  ::)
Which one of you bitches wants to dance?

saffron sam2

Quote from: Gnevin on November 23, 2009, 08:24:40 PM
An informant is an entirely different prospect to POG's the police are planting the bombs them self nonsense and if their is an informant they are doing there job correctly as this and other bombs have be discovered .

Something like that would never happen. Ever been to Donegal? The names Noel McMahon and Kevin Lennon ring any bells?

I could have some fun explaining there / their and they're to you, but I can't be bothered.

Have you been drinking?
the breathing of the vanished lies in acres round my feet

Maguire01

Quote from: pintsofguinness on November 23, 2009, 08:54:39 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 23, 2009, 08:27:21 PM
Quote from: pintsofguinness on November 23, 2009, 08:18:26 PM
Maguire, maybe I'm not just a gullible as some.
It's not about being gullible.
We can base our opinions today on what the police/army did in the past. But why stop at the police and army - using the same logic, should we not also assume that Sinn Fein are no different than they were 20 years ago?
Sinn Fein have demonstrated they've changed, not that I have any love for them.  The police and army have not. 


And at no stage did I say the police were planting bombs.
I never said you did.

I'm not quite sure how you can say that SF has changed, but the police, with the Patten reforms substantially implemented, haven't. And again, no one is saying that it's fait accompli at this stage, but the fact that you don't acknowledge any change or substantial change makes it a bit difficult to take your other arguments serious.

pintsofguinness

Quote from: Maguire01 on November 23, 2009, 09:07:50 PM
Quote from: pintsofguinness on November 23, 2009, 08:54:39 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 23, 2009, 08:27:21 PM
Quote from: pintsofguinness on November 23, 2009, 08:18:26 PM
Maguire, maybe I'm not just a gullible as some.
It's not about being gullible.
We can base our opinions today on what the police/army did in the past. But why stop at the police and army - using the same logic, should we not also assume that Sinn Fein are no different than they were 20 years ago?
Sinn Fein have demonstrated they've changed, not that I have any love for them.  The police and army have not. 


And at no stage did I say the police were planting bombs.
I never said you did.

I'm not quite sure how you can say that SF has changed, but the police, with the Patten reforms substantially implemented, haven't. And again, no one is saying that it's fait accompli at this stage, but the fact that you don't acknowledge any change or substantial change makes it a bit difficult to take your other arguments serious.
I know, gnevin did, I meant to address that to him.

The stuff I hear from home suggest the police haven't changed, I suppose there's not as much harassment as there was, great. 
Which one of you bitches wants to dance?

Maguire01

Quote from: pintsofguinness on November 23, 2009, 09:10:54 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 23, 2009, 09:07:50 PM
Quote from: pintsofguinness on November 23, 2009, 08:54:39 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 23, 2009, 08:27:21 PM
Quote from: pintsofguinness on November 23, 2009, 08:18:26 PM
Maguire, maybe I'm not just a gullible as some.
It's not about being gullible.
We can base our opinions today on what the police/army did in the past. But why stop at the police and army - using the same logic, should we not also assume that Sinn Fein are no different than they were 20 years ago?
Sinn Fein have demonstrated they've changed, not that I have any love for them.  The police and army have not. 


And at no stage did I say the police were planting bombs.
I never said you did.

I'm not quite sure how you can say that SF has changed, but the police, with the Patten reforms substantially implemented, haven't. And again, no one is saying that it's fait accompli at this stage, but the fact that you don't acknowledge any change or substantial change makes it a bit difficult to take your other arguments serious.
I know, gnevin did, I meant to address that to him.

The stuff I hear from home suggest the police haven't changed, I suppose there's not as much harassment as there was, great.
So you're basing everything on "stuff you hear from home"? And like anything, you only really hear the bad stuff. I've already acknowledged that it's not the end of the process, but you seem to be selecting only the news you want to hear.

Do you not see any value in the Pattern recommendations?
Do you not acknowledge that they are substantially implemented?
How can you say that SF has changed, but the police has not, given that SF has now accepted and supports the police?

pintsofguinness

Maguire I dont care who sinn fein support. 

All I hear from home is about break ins, old people terrorised, little c***ts running riot, racing around the Square in Cross (50 yards from a police station) and NOTHING being done about any of it.  Police with zero interest but if Willie Frazer turns up to shout abuse at someone's house they're out in force to give him a police escort. 
Which one of you bitches wants to dance?

Maguire01

Quote from: pintsofguinness on November 23, 2009, 09:21:38 PM
All I hear from home is about break ins, old people terrorised, little c***ts running riot, racing around the Square in Cross (50 yards from a police station) and NOTHING being done about any of it. 
Could be said about any police force anywhere in Ireland or the UK surely.

Not sure how that relates to how they handle a potential bomb situation.

Out of interest, are the people at home now happy to go to the police, make statements, stand up and give evidence against these criminals?

pintsofguinness

Quote from: Maguire01 on November 23, 2009, 09:39:53 PM
Quote from: pintsofguinness on November 23, 2009, 09:21:38 PM
All I hear from home is about break ins, old people terrorised, little c***ts running riot, racing around the Square in Cross (50 yards from a police station) and NOTHING being done about any of it. 
Could be said about any police force anywhere in Ireland or the UK surely.

Not sure how that relates to how they handle a potential bomb situation.

Out of interest, are the people at home now happy to go to the police, make statements, stand up and give evidence against these criminals?
Not in my experience of living here. 
Don't know about people being happy to make statements but I know several have, nothing done though.
Which one of you bitches wants to dance?

Maguire01

Quote from: pintsofguinness on November 23, 2009, 09:44:13 PM
Quote from: Maguire01 on November 23, 2009, 09:39:53 PM
Quote from: pintsofguinness on November 23, 2009, 09:21:38 PM
All I hear from home is about break ins, old people terrorised, little c***ts running riot, racing around the Square in Cross (50 yards from a police station) and NOTHING being done about any of it. 
Could be said about any police force anywhere in Ireland or the UK surely.

Not sure how that relates to how they handle a potential bomb situation.

Out of interest, are the people at home now happy to go to the police, make statements, stand up and give evidence against these criminals?
Not in my experience of living here. 
Don't know about people being happy to make statements but I know several have, nothing done though.
What about the middle line?

pintsofguinness

Which one of you bitches wants to dance?