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Messages - Look-Up!

#1
GAA Discussion / Re: Division 2 2024
February 16, 2024, 02:12:33 PM
Quote from: mup on February 16, 2024, 01:57:07 PM
Quote from: Look-Up! on February 16, 2024, 01:28:22 PMThis is a Division 2 league thread. Dublin are not in this division. I expected Kildare to be in the shake up for promotion start of year.

We're after a break and still 10 points to fight for so they can still turn it around but I cannot get my head around the defeatist attitude of some on here. Kildare have competed in Div1 recently, were in the super 8's when they were a thing. Narrowly lost to Dublin in Leinster last year, narrowly lost to Monaghan to make AIQF. Have been in 3 of the last 6 U20 AI finals, winning 2. Have a large passionate following so money is flowing. Are a stones throw from Dublin so educational and work options are optimal for players and travel distances for collective training shouldn't prove too problematic. There are so many counties in Ireland would give their right arms to have their "problems"!

Get a grip FFS. Go out and play the game and forget about the Dubs unless ye meet them come championship. But if some of your players have the same attitude as some of the posters on here, maybe ye'd be better off in Division 3.

Dublin are not in Div 2 yet you go on to mention them several times in your post.

Kildare and Meath are in Div 2 and are going poorly. There is no rule against putting forward opinions on why they that may be.

The attitude or opinion of some anonymous posters on a message board has no effect on the Kildare players.
Last time I checked Kildare players were from Kildare. If some of the attitudes on here are a prevailing attitude within the county then it would explain your performances.
#2
GAA Discussion / Re: Division 2 2024
February 16, 2024, 01:28:22 PM
This is a Division 2 league thread. Dublin are not in this division. I expected Kildare to be in the shake up for promotion start of year.

We're after a break and still 10 points to fight for so they can still turn it around but I cannot get my head around the defeatist attitude of some on here. Kildare have competed in Div1 recently, were in the super 8's when they were a thing. Narrowly lost to Dublin in Leinster last year, narrowly lost to Monaghan to make AIQF. Have been in 3 of the last 6 U20 AI finals, winning 2. Have a large passionate following so money is flowing. Are a stones throw from Dublin so educational and work options are optimal for players and travel distances for collective training shouldn't prove too problematic. There are so many counties in Ireland would give their right arms to have their "problems"!

Get a grip FFS. Go out and play the game and forget about the Dubs unless ye meet them come championship. But if some of your players have the same attitude as some of the posters on here, maybe ye'd be better off in Division 3.
#3
General discussion / Re: Premier League 2023-2024
February 07, 2024, 04:31:08 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on February 07, 2024, 03:28:27 PM
Quote from: Look-Up! on February 07, 2024, 02:54:08 PMPep is a special manager, no question. Klopp too. Both well run clubs, you cannot but be impressed by how both clubs have gone about their business last while, on and off field. Klopp had something very special in Merseyside, it's just unfortunate for them they met the perfect storm in City. Great manager and well run club with an unlimited blank cheque book. That's the only difference between the two.

When Pep goes things will even out. It will be nothing to do with other clubs getting their act together or putting on big boy pants. It will be City regressing. The managerial position is that important. FFP or money will not keep them where they are. Look at Utd, have spent more than anyone but don't have a manager of their calibre.

But for now, cannot see past City and it is getting boring. But it will be interesting to see who their next manager is, who Liverpool get in and indeed who's at the helm in Old Trafford next couple of years. There is a change coming soon.

As you say Liverpool, Man City are well run clubs and both Klopp and Pep can get the best out of their teams in that environment. At United they have gone through numerous managers the last decade and another change of manager won't make a big difference until they become a well run club. Jury is out on what Radcliffe and Co can do now they have control of the sport side of the club.
I can see the truth in what you're saying but end of the day bean counters run every club and if the football man in charge is not of strong enough personality or competence, and doesn't impress and domineer to them what exactly he needs from them, or indeed he doesn't truly know himself what he needs, then success is unlikely. It's a balancing act where either or can come first.
#4
General discussion / Re: Premier League 2023-2024
February 07, 2024, 03:33:55 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on February 07, 2024, 03:13:31 PM
Quote from: J70 on February 07, 2024, 10:57:18 AMPerhaps we're just surveying the considerable stack of evidence before us when reaching the conclusion that City will win it again MR2.

And it's not like the team are giving up. But most supporters of any team, once they're beyond the age of 12, are sensible enough to call things as they are.

When Liverpool won it by a country mile they had to reach levels of performance which are simply not sustainable or repeatable.

82 points would have been enough to win that league title. Mid 80 points will likely be enough to finish 1st this season. At home to City a huge fixture for Liverpoool in the run in and even a draw would be a decent result.
I thought similar last year but this City team have a tendency to hit beast mode from Feb to April, especially when the pressure is really put on them. And their squad affords them more options and unlikely match winners and probably can absorb injuries better.
#5
General discussion / Re: Premier League 2023-2024
February 07, 2024, 02:54:08 PM
Pep is a special manager, no question. Klopp too. Both well run clubs, you cannot but be impressed by how both clubs have gone about their business last while, on and off field. Klopp had something very special in Merseyside, it's just unfortunate for them they met the perfect storm in City. Great manager and well run club with an unlimited blank cheque book. That's the only difference between the two.

When Pep goes things will even out. It will be nothing to do with other clubs getting their act together or putting on big boy pants. It will be City regressing. The managerial position is that important. FFP or money will not keep them where they are. Look at Utd, have spent more than anyone but don't have a manager of their calibre.

But for now, cannot see past City and it is getting boring. But it will be interesting to see who their next manager is, who Liverpool get in and indeed who's at the helm in Old Trafford next couple of years. There is a change coming soon.
#6
General discussion / Re: Premier League 2023-2024
February 06, 2024, 11:31:06 AM
Still 17 games to play so an awful lot can happen but they're exactly where they want to be. Injury crises can often swing momentum in a title chase but as things stand it's hard to see past them doing 4 in a row. If it weren't for a certain German, it'd be 7 in a row.
#7
General discussion / Re: On this day.
February 03, 2024, 08:49:39 PM
Quote from: AustinPowers on February 03, 2024, 10:29:41 AM3rd February 1959:

Buddy Holly, Ritchie Valens  and the Big Bopper  (and their pilot) were killed in a plane crash in Iowa.

The  day the music died.
Apparently last thing he said getting on the plane was we can't travel in that shit heap.
#8
Cavan / Re: Official Cavan GAA Thread
January 29, 2024, 10:02:34 AM
Excellent game and performance. Early days to be getting too excited, but already speed and intensity looks way above Div3 levels and the quality of play too (from both teams), so hopefully this is where we stay long term.

Was a bit worried we'd go very defensive with a fear of losing but the opposite was the case. Set up very positive, broke well and kept men in their half at all times. Took some great scores, tackled and defended well and managed the game in an assured fashion especially second half when it looked like they were getting into it and coming back at us.

Watched a bit of Cork and Donegal. A lot of twists and turns yet but thought Donegal looked fairly mean and Div1 bound so how we go against them will be a good gauge. Hopefully the good performance in Carlow and Jimmy McGuinness factor generates a bit of interest and we get a good vocal home turnout next Sunday evening but pricing will be a factor. No two ways about it, it's steep.
#9
GAA Discussion / Re: Ulster Club IFC/JFC 2023
January 20, 2024, 10:10:24 AM
Quote from: intheknowhow on January 20, 2024, 09:47:03 AM
Quote from: Look-Up! on January 19, 2024, 10:33:14 PM
Quote from: marty34 on January 19, 2024, 08:32:13 PM
Quote from: Dreadnought on January 19, 2024, 06:40:48 PM
Quote from: intheknowhow on January 19, 2024, 05:42:03 PM
Quote from: Dreadnought on January 19, 2024, 05:28:41 PM
Quote from: Ethan Tremblay on January 19, 2024, 04:25:52 PMHow are teams relegated to Intermediate and Junior championships in Cavan? I understand winning is the pathway to the level above, but how do you go about going down?
1 up 1 down. Essentially the bottom 4 in the group stages play off in relegation semi finals, and then losers play relegation final when the Championship quarters, semi etc are ongoing. So overall loser relegated and replaced by below Championship winner. You have to win to move up, lose to move down

Only exception to this is when rejigging numbers, and the odd year you relegate 2 and so on. Covid also messed it here when none were relegated in 2020, but had a promotion, so 2 were relegated in 2021 and so on to rejig numbers across the 3 Championships

Your league is a farce so and handy for outside managers to make a few bob. Mess about in the league and win an odd game in champ and your grand.

Lose a few games in Monaghan and Tyrone in the league and your gone,you get found out pretty quick.
Yes, mostly. Not for the everyday club player, but mostly. Split season the issue here overall. Glad you've finally caught up

Managers still lose their jobs. Might not be as valued, but you can't lose all your games either. My own team cut their manager mid League last season.

So the league is juat a waste of time so. What's tbe point of lads playing if no interest in it.

Being a club manager in Cavan must be handy money...and no pressure.
There is interest in it, just a much lesser competition and a great chance for lads on the fringes to exposure to a higher level in a club with second team, or for bringing young lads through.

I'd argue taking the league so seriously is a gimmick managers use to rip clubs off and charge more for their services with all the additional training and fitness stats. You cannot expect club players to be at peak from March to October. So I'd take it with a pinch of salt how tough the leagues are or at least how practical it is from a player welfare POV.

Whatever little joy is left in the club game is slowly being sucked away completely by these "professional" managerial setups and they always know how to charge regardless of results. Northern managers are notorious for it and they're picking up plenty of work in Cavan. Indeed in Dreadnought's own club it was a northern duo who unceremoniously got the gate. Seriously ignorant pair completely stuck up their own holes and extremely detrimental to player morale and development. 

Very backward way of looking at it! Why would you train less than before champ?

You pay for what you get
Of course you have to train but you need to develop players too and you won't do that by sickening a large portion of the group who you have no intention of giving any meaningful time to. Or in some cases being on players back over the Xmas long long before anything will be kicked. That's OTT for ordinary club players.

I know what they pay for. These lads are paid by the training session. Any it's always the fix for every problem, more sessions, more sessions, more sessions.
#10
GAA Discussion / Re: Ulster Club IFC/JFC 2023
January 19, 2024, 10:33:14 PM
Quote from: marty34 on January 19, 2024, 08:32:13 PM
Quote from: Dreadnought on January 19, 2024, 06:40:48 PM
Quote from: intheknowhow on January 19, 2024, 05:42:03 PM
Quote from: Dreadnought on January 19, 2024, 05:28:41 PM
Quote from: Ethan Tremblay on January 19, 2024, 04:25:52 PMHow are teams relegated to Intermediate and Junior championships in Cavan? I understand winning is the pathway to the level above, but how do you go about going down?
1 up 1 down. Essentially the bottom 4 in the group stages play off in relegation semi finals, and then losers play relegation final when the Championship quarters, semi etc are ongoing. So overall loser relegated and replaced by below Championship winner. You have to win to move up, lose to move down

Only exception to this is when rejigging numbers, and the odd year you relegate 2 and so on. Covid also messed it here when none were relegated in 2020, but had a promotion, so 2 were relegated in 2021 and so on to rejig numbers across the 3 Championships

Your league is a farce so and handy for outside managers to make a few bob. Mess about in the league and win an odd game in champ and your grand.

Lose a few games in Monaghan and Tyrone in the league and your gone,you get found out pretty quick.
Yes, mostly. Not for the everyday club player, but mostly. Split season the issue here overall. Glad you've finally caught up

Managers still lose their jobs. Might not be as valued, but you can't lose all your games either. My own team cut their manager mid League last season.

So the league is juat a waste of time so. What's tbe point of lads playing if no interest in it.

Being a club manager in Cavan must be handy money...and no pressure.
There is interest in it, just a much lesser competition and a great chance for lads on the fringes to exposure to a higher level in a club with second team, or for bringing young lads through.

I'd argue taking the league so seriously is a gimmick managers use to rip clubs off and charge more for their services with all the additional training and fitness stats. You cannot expect club players to be at peak from March to October. So I'd take it with a pinch of salt how tough the leagues are or at least how practical it is from a player welfare POV.

Whatever little joy is left in the club game is slowly being sucked away completely by these "professional" managerial setups and they always know how to charge regardless of results. Northern managers are notorious for it and they're picking up plenty of work in Cavan. Indeed in Dreadnought's own club it was a northern duo who unceremoniously got the gate. Seriously ignorant pair completely stuck up their own holes and extremely detrimental to player morale and development. 
#11
GAA Discussion / Re: Ulster Club IFC/JFC 2023
January 19, 2024, 06:05:05 PM
The League is hardly a friendly competition. Players who don't perform will not be in contention for a championship start. Winning a league is a nice feather for a manager so long as he doesn't flop come championship. Same as performing poorly in the league will either be forgiven if you go well in championship, or it will be used as a stick to further beat a manager with if he also performs poorly come championship. But this is all old news to any GAA fan. I think some on here are being deliberately disingenuous. 

And just on the unavailability of county players for league. "County player" is a bit of a stretch. Lads not within an ass's roar of a match day panel, basically anyone sniffing around a county panel will be kicked off it if they play club league. This is something I completely and utterly disagree with and really annoys me but was introduced by, funnily enough a Tyrone man and his Monaghan side kick. Then the new man after them kept it going.
#12
GAA Discussion / Re: Ulster Club IFC/JFC 2023
January 19, 2024, 01:24:19 PM
Quote from: Ethan Tremblay on January 19, 2024, 01:06:38 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on January 19, 2024, 12:45:35 PM
Quote from: Look-Up! on January 19, 2024, 12:43:29 PM
Quote from: Ethan Tremblay on January 19, 2024, 12:36:05 PM
Quote from: Look-Up! on January 19, 2024, 12:21:22 PM
Quote from: Ethan Tremblay on January 19, 2024, 12:14:22 PMI mentioned it before, but the biggest issue seems to be they had played, and maintained their division 1 league status, and played in a junior championship. 

Had it been intermediate championship they had won, I would say people, like myself, could reconcile more with that. 

This is coming from my own point of view where, in Armagh, the leagues and championships are linked, the idea of a senior league team entering a junior championship would seem preposterous, and the outcome would be inevitable. 


Just one caveat there though. By any league metric Arva are a div 2 side. It was a championship style one game knockout kept them there when they were completely adrift of everyone. So you absolutely cannot call them a senior side. That is completely disingenuous.

Elaborate?

Finished rock bottom of league. In any league scenario this should mean relegation.
But they were a (albeit struggling) division 1 team in 2023 and played junior championship.

Aye generally it does, in this case it didn't. 

You can't argue that by all conceivable metrics they are a division 2 team based on their final league position, when the same county board that allowed them to play junior championship also allowed them the chance to stay in division 1 with a relegation playoff. 



If I'm arguing anything at all it's that you can't argue by all conceivable metrics that they are a div1/senior side based on a knockout playoff ad hoc format to league, when the same knockout championship proper format has kept them Junior. 
#13
GAA Discussion / Re: Ulster Club IFC/JFC 2023
January 19, 2024, 01:09:41 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on January 19, 2024, 12:45:35 PM
Quote from: Look-Up! on January 19, 2024, 12:43:29 PM
Quote from: Ethan Tremblay on January 19, 2024, 12:36:05 PM
Quote from: Look-Up! on January 19, 2024, 12:21:22 PM
Quote from: Ethan Tremblay on January 19, 2024, 12:14:22 PMI mentioned it before, but the biggest issue seems to be they had played, and maintained their division 1 league status, and played in a junior championship. 

Had it been intermediate championship they had won, I would say people, like myself, could reconcile more with that. 

This is coming from my own point of view where, in Armagh, the leagues and championships are linked, the idea of a senior league team entering a junior championship would seem preposterous, and the outcome would be inevitable. 


Just one caveat there though. By any league metric Arva are a div 2 side. It was a championship style one game knockout kept them there when they were completely adrift of everyone. So you absolutely cannot call them a senior side. That is completely disingenuous.

Elaborate?

Finished rock bottom of league. In any league scenario this should mean relegation.
But they were a (albeit struggling) division 1 team in 2023 and played junior championship.
Because they struggled to win Junior for long enough.
#14
GAA Discussion / Re: Ulster Club IFC/JFC 2023
January 19, 2024, 01:04:56 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 19, 2024, 12:44:59 PM
Quote from: Look-Up! on January 19, 2024, 10:06:05 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 18, 2024, 04:04:55 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on January 18, 2024, 03:39:20 PM
Quote from: Armagh18 on January 18, 2024, 03:25:15 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on January 18, 2024, 03:12:19 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 18, 2024, 11:37:33 AM
Quote from: Eire90 on January 18, 2024, 06:59:53 AMyou could stop the whole argument about intermediate and junior championships by scrapping them and  just giving the intermediate and junior  champions a place in the county's  senior championships so there is a pathway for them to be provincial or all ireland champions.

Intermediate champions already get a place (if they want it) in the counties senior championship I'd imagine in most counties

The competition serves up a great carrot, to win a final at Croke park with your teammates

People growing up as kids playing soccer in the streets, wanted to score the winner in the FA Cup final at Wembley. It the same thing now in GAA at all levels, scoring the winner at Croke park with your club, parish town or City

No it's not, junior and intermediate aren't fit for purpose
Tell that to Cullyhanna and Arva...

You're not within a country mile of the point

Its fit for purpose with one simple rule, no div 1 teams in intermediate or Junior for that matter and only div 3 or 4 teams can play Junior ..

Whatever way a county runs off its championship is up to them, but no team can enter the all Ireland series based on those simple enough rules, they must nominate a team, even Jimmy McGuinness could understand that set up!

That will encourage teams to actually play at their level ad not 'below'

Cork and Dublin could really mix it up with their A and B championships though, but to be fair to them as a county they haven't, Kerry are just ruining it ;D
If people still have their knickers in a twist over the whole Arva thing then go get the rules changed for the sake of changing them, whatever. They have little to be at.

But that statement is a load of nonsense. Arva's priority would always have been championship. Winning the Junior championship was the only "encouragement" they'd ever have had. Took them a few years because that was their level, they couldn't rise "above" it. Your statement is implying there was something untoward going on, that they somehow designed this situation for unfair advantage. Other posters have implied this on here too. Need a serious bit of cop on.

There's no cop on required. Playing div 1 and playing junior championship is not the norm up and down the country.

All I'm saying is any county can run their own championship whatever way they feel works for them. But, a div 1 league team shouldn't be playing in the provincial championship and beyond. A nominated div 3-4 team that's reached further than a div 2 team and Div 1 team.

There's no beef with Cavan or Avra, they've done nowt wrong
I wouldn't be in favour of this but if it gets voted in that's the rules we'll go by.

We operate a 2 up 2 down in league, 1 up 1 down in championship so teams operating in different tiers for both competitions is completely normal for us. League playoffs instead of proper league standings might magnify the quirks at bit e.g as someone said Knockbride will play div1 next year but are still Junior. They finished 3rd in div2 but won a playoff.

I don't see the problem really. Complaining about other counties or team ranked 20 from county A playing team ranked 30 from count B is irrelevant. Counties are not standard units and clubs are not standard units. Absolutely no business comparing div1 in Cavan and say Dublin. AI Senior club championship is completely stacked with only a handful of elites capable of winning. Do we start handicapping some teams to make it "fairer" or just get on with it.
JFC and IFC have a much leveler playing field. So Kerry are strong in it. That's hardly surprising or worrying for a county with a huge GAA tradition and a huge rural population.
#15
GAA Discussion / Re: Ulster Club IFC/JFC 2023
January 19, 2024, 12:43:29 PM
Quote from: Ethan Tremblay on January 19, 2024, 12:36:05 PM
Quote from: Look-Up! on January 19, 2024, 12:21:22 PM
Quote from: Ethan Tremblay on January 19, 2024, 12:14:22 PMI mentioned it before, but the biggest issue seems to be they had played, and maintained their division 1 league status, and played in a junior championship. 

Had it been intermediate championship they had won, I would say people, like myself, could reconcile more with that. 

This is coming from my own point of view where, in Armagh, the leagues and championships are linked, the idea of a senior league team entering a junior championship would seem preposterous, and the outcome would be inevitable. 


Just one caveat there though. By any league metric Arva are a div 2 side. It was a championship style one game knockout kept them there when they were completely adrift of everyone. So you absolutely cannot call them a senior side. That is completely disingenuous.

Elaborate?

Finished rock bottom of league. In any league scenario this should mean relegation.