The SDLP

[Snapchap]

How long before we see Colum sitting in the Lords - under protest of course.

Colum has proven beyond all doubt that sitting in Westminster is pissing into the wind for any Nationalist party. Complete waste of time.

The A5 and Casement are 2 issues which are important to the people and over which SF has no leverage. Plaid Cymru ans the SNP bith take their seats. SF is an outlier.

Such a load of garbage. What leverage have the SDLP over Casement and the A5? These decisions aren't taken in the chamber in Westminster. British Goverments fund this place and history tells us that the only times these funds get signifcanty altered are as a result of cross party talks with a Secretary of State in Hillsborough Castle. Have a guess which two parties have historically wielded literally all the leverage in such talks? Clue: one of them isn't the SDLP. Once the package gets to Stormont, those who decide where is it spent are the executive ministers. That's an executive which the SDLP has decided to abstain from for the last two terms, meaning that when the funds are handed out, the SDLP opted out of the responsibility for deciding how they are spent.

If you want to get a better idea of the sort of impact the SDLP carries in the House of Commons Chamber, this report from the Irish News last week is a good reflection:

"Colum Eastwood the only backer of his own Armagh GAA Westminster motion"
A house of Commons motion to congratulate the Armagh team on its All-Ireland football final win by SDLP leader Colum Eastwood has attracted just one signature — his own.
The motion, which has been open for signing for more than two weeks, reads: "That this House congratulates Armagh on their 2024 All-Ireland Senior Football Championship victory".

[LoughNeagh]

How long before we see Colum sitting in the Lords - under protest of course.

Colum has proven beyond all doubt that sitting in Westminster is pissing into the wind for any Nationalist party. Complete waste of time.

The A5 and Casement are 2 issues which are important to the people and over which SF has no leverage. Plaid Cymru ans the SNP bith take their seats. SF is an outlier.

Such a load of garbage. What leverage have the SDLP over Casement and the A5? These decisions aren't taken in the chamber in Westminster. British Goverments fund this place and history tells us that the only times these funds get signifcanty altered are as a result of cross party talks with a Secretary of State in Hillsborough Castle. Have a guess which two parties have historically wielded literally all the leverage in such talks? Clue: one of them not the SDLP. Once the package gets to Stormont, those who decide where is it spent are the executive ministers. That's an executive which the SDLP has decided to abstain from for the last two terms, meaning that when the funds are handed out, the SDLP opted out of the responsibility for deciding how they are spent.

If you want to get a better idea of the sort of impact the SDLP carries in the House of Commons Chamber, this report from the Irish News last week is a good reflection:

"Colum Eastwood the only backer of his own Armagh GAA Westminster motion"
A house of Commons motion to congratulate the Armagh team on its All-Ireland football final win by SDLP leader Colum Eastwood has attracted just one signature — his own.
The motion, which has been open for signing for more than two weeks, reads: "That this House congratulates Armagh on their 2024 All-Ireland Senior Football Championship victory".

Sums him up really. As stated above, absolutely no leverage, pointless waste of time and constantly looking approval from the British.

What an embarrassment. Why would any GAA team want too be congratulated but Westminster?

[Snapchap]

They're going nowhere regardless. A busted flush.

Brian Feeney wrote a column last week where he referenced the turnover of leaders since Hume. Little did he/we know then that a week later, another leader would bite the dust. The parallels with the UUP are striking in that regard. Two parties dwarfed by a bigger party, with no identity, no raison d'être beyond "we're not the DUP/SF" (delete as appropriate). Claire Hannah is set to be their fifth leader since Hume, with Nesbitt set to be the 7th UUP leader since Trimble. What does that tell you about the reality inside both parties?

What have been the big plays for the SDLP in recent years? Two that I can think of: a pact with FF, and the setting up for the 'New Ireland Commission'. Both announced to much fanfare. So what of them? The former proved itself to be disastrous and was swiftly put out of its misery, the later appears to exist in name only.

Feeney's column referenced Claire Hanna's recent appearance on the BBC Red Lines podcast, where she admitted that despite standing candidates in all 18 constituencies in the general election, they only campaigned in three. The only possible reasons he came up with for that were so that they could maintain notions of grandeur/being a big player and/or to try to maintain their vote share. End result, their vote share dropped yet again, by 3.8%, and the only two MPs they got elected, as Feeney pointed out, were elected "not because they're SDLP but for specific reasons: in Foyle with unionist support to keep SF out and in South Belfast because Hanna is neither SF nor DUP."

And as for their soon-to-be leader? A woman who so loathed FF that she considered leaving the SDLP to set up her own party when the SDLP/FF pact was formed, even though she has a track record of heading south and canvassing not only for FF's real sister party FG, but also for Labour, while herself an SDLP rep. How can the SDLP be confident of what it is politically, under a new leader who doesn't seem to know what she stands for herself?

Is it healthy to have a nationalist opposition party or do we all go in behind SF? There's no angle here btw, just want the opinion from someone that is full on SF and to be fair, pretty tuned into the political side of things on here

When you say "nationalist opposition party", do you mean Stormont opposition? Or opposition to SF? If the former, as far as I'm concerned, voluntarily choosing to go into opposition in the Assembly when you have an entitelment to a ministerial position, is an act of political self-harm for a party that's already struggling for relevance. If you mean as an opposition to Sinn Féin, then I think that's been part of their problem under Eastwood - the most recent election is the first time he seemed to cop on to the fact that standing for nothing except sniping at SF wasn't going to cut it. To quote Feeney again, "Sinn Féin represents 70% of northern nationalists, that it's a major national party, something northern nationalists like, something the SDLP isn't, and doesn't aspire to be." It took Eastwood too long to accept that trying to make an opponent of it's fellow nationalist party - one so overwhemlingly popular as SF - was not a clever tactic. As far as I can tell, natioanlists would have prefered the SDLP take on the DUP with even half the enthusiasm they showed for attacking SF.

BUT...

I do believe that an extinct SDLP is not a good thing for nationalism as it will do nothing to enhance the overall nationalist vote share - something which the British Government will obviously be only to happy to take into account when looking for reasons to not call a border poll.

And as for being "full on SF", that's not necessarily the case. I regard them as the best of a bad bunch, but their handling of the situation in Gaza, as far as I'm concerned, has been absolutely shameful. So much so that even Colum Eastwood took a more principled stand. One of the few things I'd give him credit for.

[Snapchap]

How long before we see Colum sitting in the Lords - under protest of course.

Colum has proven beyond all doubt that sitting in Westminster is pissing into the wind for any Nationalist party. Complete waste of time.

The A5 and Casement are 2 issues which are important to the people and over which SF has no leverage. Plaid Cymru ans the SNP bith take their seats. SF is an outlier.

Such a load of garbage. What leverage have the SDLP over Casement and the A5? These decisions aren't taken in the chamber in Westminster. British Goverments fund this place and history tells us that the only times these funds get signifcanty altered are as a result of cross party talks with a Secretary of State in Hillsborough Castle. Have a guess which two parties have historically wielded literally all the leverage in such talks? Clue: one of them not the SDLP. Once the package gets to Stormont, those who decide where is it spent are the executive ministers. That's an executive which the SDLP has decided to abstain from for the last two terms, meaning that when the funds are handed out, the SDLP opted out of the responsibility for deciding how they are spent.

If you want to get a better idea of the sort of impact the SDLP carries in the House of Commons Chamber, this report from the Irish News last week is a good reflection:

"Colum Eastwood the only backer of his own Armagh GAA Westminster motion"
A house of Commons motion to congratulate the Armagh team on its All-Ireland football final win by SDLP leader Colum Eastwood has attracted just one signature — his own.
The motion, which has been open for signing for more than two weeks, reads: "That this House congratulates Armagh on their 2024 All-Ireland Senior Football Championship victory".

Sums him up really. As stated above, absolutely no leverage, pointless waste of time and constantly looking approval from the British.

What an embarrassment. Why would any GAA team want too be congratulated but Westminster?

Precisely. Yet somehow that most obvious of obvious points never even dawned on Column.

[JPGJOHNNYG]

Nationalism still needs the SDLP. If the SDLP finished then yes some more votes would go to SF but even more would would go to Alliance who will not forward the UI project one bit. People hoping for the SDLp demise are as daft as the unionists calling for unionist unity or a single party it will only result in a decrease in return

[Pub Bore]

As regards Westminster, Plaid and the SNP aren't sitting on the government benches.  It's one thing tut-tutting and eye rolling when Johnson is waffling about Brexit and parties, another when your "sister party" in GB is cutting pensioners' winter fuel allowance and is about to raise taxes for everyone.  A hard position for the SDLP to defend, SF will be happy to be outside, pissing in, for another few years.

[armaghniac]

As regards Westminster, Plaid and the SNP aren't sitting on the government benches.  It's one thing tut-tutting and eye rolling when Johnson is waffling about Brexit and parties, another when your "sister party" in GB is cutting pensioners' winter fuel allowance and is about to raise taxes for everyone.  A hard position for the SDLP to defend, SF will be happy to be outside, pissing in, for another few years.

The government in London needs to pay for itself. Presumably, the SDLP might advocate other types of spending cuts or other types of tax changes.

What it can do it note that pensioners in the ROI still get such payments and why is NI associated with the London government at all.

[Pub Bore]

Nationalism still needs the SDLP. If the SDLP finished then yes some more votes would go to SF but even more would would go to Alliance who will not forward the UI project one bit. People hoping for the SDLp demise are as daft as the unionists calling for unionist unity or a single party it will only result in a decrease in return

Those SDLP voters who go to Alliance wouldn't vote for a UI anyway.  This can only be good news for SF.  Claire Hanna is about as interested in a UI as Jim Allister.  Her Belfast centric approach may actually attract a few Alliance voters in the short term but will push places like Foyle, East Derry and Upper Bann towards SF.

[weareros]

Nationalism still needs the SDLP. If the SDLP finished then yes some more votes would go to SF but even more would would go to Alliance who will not forward the UI project one bit. People hoping for the SDLp demise are as daft as the unionists calling for unionist unity or a single party it will only result in a decrease in return

Those SDLP voters who go to Alliance wouldn't vote for a UI anyway.  This can only be good news for SF.  Claire Hanna is about as interested in a UI as Jim Allister.  Her Belfast centric approach may actually attract a few Alliance voters in the short term but will push places like Foyle, East Derry and Upper Bann towards SF.

Is it good news for SF? In the recent Lucid poll, the combined SF/SDlP vote in the 18-24 age group was only 30%. Alliance was at 20% in that grouping. The two parties look like they will struggle to maximize the nationalist gene pool vote and those other right or left parties Aontu and PBP will not secure it either. 5% was going to Green in that age group so old nationalist parties not appealing to younger voters on issues like climate, and SF siding with Unionism and Tory policy to block trans medication won't help them with astute younger voters either.

[RedHand88]

Nationalism still needs the SDLP. If the SDLP finished then yes some more votes would go to SF but even more would would go to Alliance who will not forward the UI project one bit. People hoping for the SDLp demise are as daft as the unionists calling for unionist unity or a single party it will only result in a decrease in return

Those SDLP voters who go to Alliance wouldn't vote for a UI anyway.  This can only be good news for SF.  Claire Hanna is about as interested in a UI as Jim Allister.  Her Belfast centric approach may actually attract a few Alliance voters in the short term but will push places like Foyle, East Derry and Upper Bann towards SF.

What. In the name of God are you talking about? Do you have to be a SF voter now to support a United Ireland?

[Saffrongael]

Nationalism still needs the SDLP. If the SDLP finished then yes some more votes would go to SF but even more would would go to Alliance who will not forward the UI project one bit. People hoping for the SDLp demise are as daft as the unionists calling for unionist unity or a single party it will only result in a decrease in return

Those SDLP voters who go to Alliance wouldn't vote for a UI anyway.  This can only be good news for SF.  Claire Hanna is about as interested in a UI as Jim Allister.  Her Belfast centric approach may actually attract a few Alliance voters in the short term but will push places like Foyle, East Derry and Upper Bann towards SF.

Is it good news for SF? In the recent Lucid poll, the combined SF/SDlP vote in the 18-24 age group was only 30%. Alliance was at 20% in that grouping. The two parties look like they will struggle to maximize the nationalist gene pool vote and those other right or left parties Aontu and PBP will not secure it either. 5% was going to Green in that age group so old nationalist parties not appealing to younger voters on issues like climate, and SF siding with Unionism and Tory policy to block trans medication won't help them with astute younger voters either.

I would probably take issue with that, plenty of "astute" younger voters will be fine with the arrangements on "trans medication", you make it sound like it's a course of antibiotics.

[RedHand88]

Nationalism still needs the SDLP. If the SDLP finished then yes some more votes would go to SF but even more would would go to Alliance who will not forward the UI project one bit. People hoping for the SDLp demise are as daft as the unionists calling for unionist unity or a single party it will only result in a decrease in return

Those SDLP voters who go to Alliance wouldn't vote for a UI anyway.  This can only be good news for SF.  Claire Hanna is about as interested in a UI as Jim Allister.  Her Belfast centric approach may actually attract a few Alliance voters in the short term but will push places like Foyle, East Derry and Upper Bann towards SF.

Is it good news for SF? In the recent Lucid poll, the combined SF/SDlP vote in the 18-24 age group was only 30%. Alliance was at 20% in that grouping. The two parties look like they will struggle to maximize the nationalist gene pool vote and those other right or left parties Aontu and PBP will not secure it either. 5% was going to Green in that age group so old nationalist parties not appealing to younger voters on issues like climate, and SF siding with Unionism and Tory policy to block trans medication won't help them with astute younger voters either.

I don't see anyone clambering for this outside of activists on Twitter.

[weareros]

Nationalism still needs the SDLP. If the SDLP finished then yes some more votes would go to SF but even more would would go to Alliance who will not forward the UI project one bit. People hoping for the SDLp demise are as daft as the unionists calling for unionist unity or a single party it will only result in a decrease in return

Those SDLP voters who go to Alliance wouldn't vote for a UI anyway.  This can only be good news for SF.  Claire Hanna is about as interested in a UI as Jim Allister.  Her Belfast centric approach may actually attract a few Alliance voters in the short term but will push places like Foyle, East Derry and Upper Bann towards SF.

Is it good news for SF? In the recent Lucid poll, the combined SF/SDlP vote in the 18-24 age group was only 30%. Alliance was at 20% in that grouping. The two parties look like they will struggle to maximize the nationalist gene pool vote and those other right or left parties Aontu and PBP will not secure it either. 5% was going to Green in that age group so old nationalist parties not appealing to younger voters on issues like climate, and SF siding with Unionism and Tory policy to block trans medication won't help them with astute younger voters either.

I would probably take issue with that, plenty of "astute" younger voters will be fine with the arrangements on "trans medication", you make it sound like it's a course of antibiotics.

Maybe I should have used empathetic. I see my own teenage children. They are totally empathetic to the plight of young trans community. My parents generation mostly are not. Alliance will be on right side of history on this one with I'd say the younger demographics.

[JPGJOHNNYG]

SDLp folding and SF moving to 35% will do nothing to progress a UI. You already have the likes of Shirlow who does the polls for Liverpool uni claiming the middle ground are all unionist (pathetic I know but no f#cker on TV or radio ever challenges his nonsense), if these polls are being used in anyway to gauge the need for a border poll then it ain't happening.

[Pub Bore]

Nationalism still needs the SDLP. If the SDLP finished then yes some more votes would go to SF but even more would would go to Alliance who will not forward the UI project one bit. People hoping for the SDLp demise are as daft as the unionists calling for unionist unity or a single party it will only result in a decrease in return

Those SDLP voters who go to Alliance wouldn't vote for a UI anyway.  This can only be good news for SF.  Claire Hanna is about as interested in a UI as Jim Allister.  Her Belfast centric approach may actually attract a few Alliance voters in the short term but will push places like Foyle, East Derry and Upper Bann towards SF.

What. In the name of God are you talking about? Do you have to be a SF voter now to support a United Ireland?

You really didn't read both posts, did you?