Gay marriage

[J70]

You boys have been asked a number of times to provide some evidence that the best interests of children would not be met by allowing gay adoption. Maybe YOU can give us some?

We don't have to provide any evidence. There is a long track record of adoption by regular couples, there is a large supply of such couples wishing to adopt. There is no need to subject children to experiments in untested arrangements which offer no advantages.

Bollocks. If you want to discriminate against gay couples based on fears that they might endanger a child's upbringing, you should be at least start with some smidgen of evidence to support your position. By your rationale, women should never have got into the workplace back in the day because separating young children from their mother and putting them in daycare might have been thought to be potentially be harmful.

[thebigfella]

You boys have been asked a number of times to provide some evidence that the best interests of children would not be met by allowing gay adoption. Maybe YOU can give us some?

We don't have to provide any evidence. There is a long track record of adoption by regular couples, there is a large supply of such couples wishing to adopt. There is no need to subject children to experiments in untested arrangements which offer no advantages.

Bollocks. If you want to discriminate against gay couples based on fears that they might endanger a child's upbringing, you should be at least start with some smidgen of evidence to support your position. By your rationale, women should never have got into the workplace back in the day because separating young children from their mother and putting them in daycare might have been thought to be potentially be harmful.

Only if the daycare was run by the church

[J70]

Ice, listen to me.

Nobody is stopping heterosexual couples from marrying or raising children.

Somebody is stopping gay couples from getting married and raising children.

Do you see the difference?

The PC brigade is trampling on his right to have his prejudice enshrined in law.

I'm assuming that's the right he's worried about losing, despite the fact that no one is forcing him to actually do anything or think differently.

[Blowitupref]

Eamonn, posting one video from youtube does not equate to evidence that gay couples provide a loving and valuable family.
I would point to us all, assuming we were all brought up in normal households (as I define the term and as God intended) that we turned out ok - is that not evidence enough that a hetrosexual set of parents are fit for the job? If God wanted two men to have children surely he would have equipped them with the bits and pieces to get the job done without the need for a woman?

I don't want the right to flaunt anything more that the PC brigade want the right to flaunt their opinions.
If laws have to be changed to appease the PC Brigade then why not changed to account for Christian's beliefs?
Why are the needs of Homosexuals and people who decide they are actually men born in women's bodies more important than mine?
Why should I be forced to go against my beliefs when every door has to be flung open for a love triangle of two men and one woman who call themselves a "family" and decide they want to adopt?

Am I saying that Gay couples cannot make good parents? NO
I am sure there are lots of examples and instances where they have. That doesn't mean I have to agree with it, it doesn't mean because the two lads you know from work have a lovely girl that they have tea parties with, that I have to applaud.

I have my beliefs and you have yours. My argument from the outset is that if you want your rights, then I am entitled to mine.

Can you elaborate and provide proof?

Yes please do.

[Mike Sheehy]

Given all thats gone on in the last few years we should probably be questioning the parenting abilities of the uber-"christians" instead of gay people. It was the traditionally married flock,and not gays, that turned a blind eye while the Magdelen beasts and fiddling priests had their wicked way. Some  "suitable" environment that created for children 

Then again, I suppose that is what god intended.

[Forever Green]

The wife and I had been thinking that it was about time that we told our teenage son that he was adopted. We sat him down and I said, "Son, there is something that your mother and I want to say and I want you to know this is the hardest thing we've ever had to do."

He said, "I know what you're going to say... It's true, I'm gay."

I said, "Well, thanks for making what I'm about to do a f**king pleasure."

[GAA_Talk]

Those opposed to gays raising children should watch this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FSQQK2Vuf9Q&feature=related

There it is again for those who missed it. What would you say to his female parents? Would you take one look at their gender and say that this lad turned out badly?

Inspiring video Ned. Did you watch him on The Ellen Degeneres show after that? Also, Gareth Thomas discussing the same topic with her?

[seafoid]

Eamonn, posting one video from youtube does not equate to evidence that gay couples provide a loving and valuable family.
I would point to us all, assuming we were all brought up in normal households

I don't think there is anything such as a cohort of "normal" people and that you can draw a line around them and define against the rest which would include people who are regarded as sexual deviants. Everyone has their bit of strangeness.  A lot of kids grow up in dysfunctional but apparently "normal" families.

Anyway I think gay people should be allowed to marry because it's about respect for their relationships. The debate about gay couples having kids is ever going to be finalised.   

[PadraicHenryPearse]

Firstly. I've no problem with gay people adopting. I see no logical reason why a gay couple would be any better or worst than a heterosexual couple. Can I throw out a new question? Do civil partnership get the same tax breaks as a married couple? If they do is there any reason why for instance 2 sisters who live together could not be afforded the same rights?if they lived together 5/10/15 years.

[Eamonnca1]

Eamonn, posting one video from youtube does not equate to evidence that gay couples provide a loving and valuable family.

Even if that video shows a person who was brought up by gay parents who provided a loving and valuable family?  Well what kind of evidence would you consider admissible then?

I would point to us all, assuming we were all brought up in normal households (as I define the term and as God intended) that we turned out ok - is that not evidence enough that a hetrosexual set of parents are fit for the job?

Leaving aside your invocation of the invisible man in the sky, has anyone here suggested that all heterosexual parents are not fit for the job? I hope you're not because I can't be assed googling up a picture of a straw man so I can post it up here. In any case I have given examples of heterosexual parents who happen to be unfit for the job, you can see them for yourself in certain inner city areas.  But their ineptitude as parents is not a function of their sexual orientation, wouldn't you say? It's got more to do with their own upbringing and a host of other social factors. You wouldn't point at a bad parent and say "oh look, there's a bad parent. Must be because she likes boys."  That'd be a bit silly, wouldn't it?

If God wanted two men to have children surely he would have equipped them with the bits and pieces to get the job done without the need for a woman?

Well that is just spectacularly stupid even if you omitted the invisible man in the sky part. Are you suggesting that infertile couples should not be allowed to adopt or have babies by IVF?  Has to be all natural or nothing with you because the invisible man in the sky said so, is that it?

I don't want the right to flaunt anything more that the PC brigade want the right to flaunt their opinions.

Wa? "Flaunt their opinions?" Are you for freedom of speech or agen it?

If laws have to be changed to appease the PC Brigade ...

then why not changed to account for Christian's beliefs?

Do I really have to explain this? How not everyone in the country is a Christian?  How it's wrong to pick the doctrines of one particular religion and enshrine that in law? Come on...

Why are the needs of Homosexuals and people who decide they are actually men born in women's bodies more important than mine?

I think the right to the same dignity and legal standing as a heterosexual married couple is a tad higher in the priority list than your right to live in a fantasy land where everyone is straight and all families fit into a one-size-fits-all model prescribed by sinister middle aged (supposed) virgins in frocks who don't know the first thing about sexual relationships, married life, or raising a family. Your "right" to discriminate in the provision of social services to a vulnerable group of people, or to deprive your own employees of their legal entitlements, because of some outmoded myth is nowhere near as high on the moral scale as a couple who want to raise a family and have that unit recognized in law. Not even high enough to lick its boots.

Why should I be forced to go against my beliefs when every door has to be flung open for a love triangle of two men and one woman who call themselves a "family" and decide they want to adopt?

Three-way couples are asking for recognition as married?  When did that happen?

Am I saying that Gay couples cannot make good parents? NO

Yes you are.  A few sentences ago you questioned a video that I posted from youtube as evidence that gay parents can produce a good family setting in which to raise children.  You said "posting one video from youtube does not equate to evidence that gay couples provide a loving and valuable family."  That sounded to me like you were challenging the idea that  gay couples can provide a loving and valuable family, i.e. the idea that they can make good parents.

I am sure there are lots of examples and instances where they have. That doesn't mean I have to agree with it, it doesn't mean because the two lads you know from work have a lovely girl that they have tea parties with, that I have to applaud.

Applaud?  I don't expect you to applaud. Acknowledging that it can and does happen would be a good enough start. Acknowledging that sexual orientation is no grounds for opposing someone's right to be recognized as a married couple would be a good enough start. Acknowledging that sexual orientation is no grounds for denying people the right to become parents would be a good start.

[Eamonnca1]

Oh and would you please give it a rest with the "I'm entitled to my opinion" mantra? I heard you the first time! Nobody's telling you to shut up. You have the right to your opinions, and I have the right to challenge them. If you don't want to have your opinions challenged, why are you posting them up here for all the world to see? Do you think people are just going to sit back and be quiet or something? Coming in here, stating your opinions and then crying like a wounded puppy when they're challenged is not going to win you much sympathy from me. Man up and defend your case!

[Maguire01]

assuming we were all brought up in normal households (as I define the term and as God intended)

Where did God define this term?

[Eamonnca1]

assuming we were all brought up in normal households (as I define the term and as God intended)

Where did God define this term?

Iceman is God. He created God in his own image.

[Maguire01]

Eamonn, posting one video from youtube does not equate to evidence that gay couples provide a loving and valuable family.

What does it equate to?

[nifan]

Iceman is God. He created God in his own image.

Icemanpromorphism