Quinn Insurance in Administration

Started by An Gaeilgoir, March 30, 2010, 12:15:49 PM

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Hardy

Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 06, 2010, 04:41:16 PM
lets hope they bring regulation in for all these offenders
- including the former financial regulator


If they do that, they'll have to go after Cowen and Ahern as well, because Neary was simply implementing policy and I'm sure he'll sing some song if he's put in the dock. The IFSC and all the foreign banks who sail in her are only here specifically because of "light touch" regulation. It was specifically marketed as such and the financial analysts and journalists who are now screaming about it knew that all the time.

I'm not making excuses for Neary - he should have done his job anyway. But you can bet your sweet bippy if his crew had shown up at Seanie's office anytime pre September '98 and started talking about ratios and prudential requirements and creative financing, he and they would have been looking for jobs half an hour later.

Hardy

Quote from: sammymaguire on April 06, 2010, 05:16:52 PM
Quote from: Hardy on April 06, 2010, 04:27:40 PM
Quote from: sammymaguire on April 06, 2010, 04:22:43 PM
John McManus  ::) well qualified I am sure to speak from his pulpit in such a manner

I'd love to hear what Michael O'Leary or Denis O'Brien has to say about Sean Quinn's wreckless business attitude and his abhorrence and disregard for corporate governance in Ireland

What's that got to do with the issue of the regulator stepping in to prevent Mr. Quinn running an insurance company like a betting shop? Do you disapprove of the solvency requirements for insurance companies or just for insurance companies run by Fermanagh men?

I was referring to the nice piece my McManus, nothing in that comment about Elderfield or FF's decsion. You have to speculate to accumulate Hardy my old chap thats what business is all about; you won't make any money by saying NO. I really don't think Quinn has been playing with fire here like it is made out thats all.

The world is a different place now than when the cowboys ran the town and you can't run an insurance company on betting dockets. You either regulate or you don't. It's as simple as that.

lynchbhoy

Quote from: Hardy on April 06, 2010, 05:18:54 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on April 06, 2010, 04:41:16 PM
lets hope they bring regulation in for all these offenders
- including the former financial regulator
If they do that, they'll have to go after Cowen and Ahern as well, because Neary was simply implementing policy and I'm sure he'll sing some song if he's put in the dock. The IFSC and all the foreign banks who sail in her are only here specifically because of "light touch" regulation. It was specifically marketed as such and the financial analysts and journalists who are now screaming about it knew that all the time.

I'm not making excuses for Neary - he should have done his job anyway. But you can bet your sweet bippy if his crew had shown up at Seanie's office anytime pre September '98 and started talking about ratios and prudential requirements and creative financing, he and they would have been looking for jobs half an hour later.
as you say yourself- you either regulate or you dont
I am somewhat sceptical that those responsible (or is it irresponsible) will face punishment - worst case scenario for them , a few more tribunals will be set up and after years of nothingness, apathy will kick in and one or two scapegoats might carry the can or else those guilty (or deemed guilty) will have died and end up posthumously shouldering all the blame again.

still the financial regulator should have done his job. he didnt. so shoul dgo to jail like the rest.
this wont happen for any of them as we all know.
..........

sammymaguire

is this about saving a company or destroying it?
DRIVE THAT BALL ON!!

lynchbhoy

Quote from: sammymaguire on April 06, 2010, 05:25:39 PM
is this about saving a company or destroying it?
i'd expect they can 'save' the company (ie continue running as is ) - but need to regulate operations and procedures to offer that required level of solvency. That will cost them profits, but I'd expect them to be able and to be allowed do this- as lets face it, the gov will not want this falling over with the massive job loss and huge pr disaster.
..........

muppet

Quote from: sammymaguire on April 06, 2010, 04:22:43 PM
John McManus  ::) well qualified I am sure to speak from his pulpit in such a manner

I'd love to hear what Michael O'Leary or Denis O'Brien has to say about Sean Quinn's wreckless business attitude and his abhorrence and disregard for corporate governance in Ireland

I'd say Michael O'Leary would say that all regulators should be shot. He is completely anti everything that gets in the way of him making a profit. Hardly the man to ask is it?

Denis O'Brien would be a different matter altogether.
MWWSI 2017

Bogball XV

Quote from: sammymaguire on April 06, 2010, 05:16:52 PM
Quote from: Hardy on April 06, 2010, 04:27:40 PM
Quote from: sammymaguire on April 06, 2010, 04:22:43 PM
John McManus  ::) well qualified I am sure to speak from his pulpit in such a manner

I'd love to hear what Michael O'Leary or Denis O'Brien has to say about Sean Quinn's wreckless business attitude and his abhorrence and disregard for corporate governance in Ireland

What's that got to do with the issue of the regulator stepping in to prevent Mr. Quinn running an insurance company like a betting shop? Do you disapprove of the solvency requirements for insurance companies or just for insurance companies run by Fermanagh men?

I was referring to the nice piece my McManus, nothing in that comment about Elderfield or FF's decsion. You have to speculate to accumulate Hardy my old chap thats what business is all about; you won't make any money by saying NO. I really don't think Quinn has been playing with fire here like it is made out thats all.
It's unlikely that O'Leary or O'Brien would have put themselves into a position where they ended up losing 2.8Bn betting on the price of shares of companies over which they did not have direct control.  I've said before I feel very sorry for Sean Quinn, but, he has brought this on himself and as for playing with fire, he's been throwing petrol on the fire imo.  Chasing losses, tilting, anyone who bets regularly knows these emotions and the importance on trying to keep a lid on them.

Dubh driocht

Have to say the John Mc Manus piece made it clear for me , a Quinns policy-holder.I recall Peter Quinn recently made a remark about liking someone but suggesting he didn't take enough risks for his liking.I think what he was saying was if it hadn't been for people like him ( PQ) then Croke Park would never have been built. Fair enough point but his brother's actions seem to have made a significant contribution to the mess that Ireland finds itself in, and while risk-taking is good, it should never be wreckless. Bingobus is bang on about our attitude to regulators.

orangeman

How much does Quinn Direct need to put into their reserves to bring the company's ratios into line ???


€400million ??

muppet

Quote from: orangeman on April 06, 2010, 09:47:04 PM
How much does Quinn Direct need to put into their reserves to bring the company's ratios into line ???


€400million ??

Depends who you believe Quinn or the regulator but they also need to pay that annually to Anglo.
MWWSI 2017

orangeman

Quote from: muppet on April 06, 2010, 09:51:36 PM
Quote from: orangeman on April 06, 2010, 09:47:04 PM
How much does Quinn Direct need to put into their reserves to bring the company's ratios into line ???


€400million ??

Depends who you believe Quinn or the regulator but they also need to pay that annually to Anglo.


They owe €2.8 billion to Anglo - 5,6,7 % interest plus capital would be say - €300m a year -

How much does Quinn non insurance related activities make / lose a year ??

In other words, is it the insurance company that is keeping the whole Quinn group going ??

muppet

Quote from: orangeman on April 06, 2010, 09:57:57 PM
Quote from: muppet on April 06, 2010, 09:51:36 PM
Quote from: orangeman on April 06, 2010, 09:47:04 PM
How much does Quinn Direct need to put into their reserves to bring the company's ratios into line ???


€400million ??

Depends who you believe Quinn or the regulator but they also need to pay that annually to Anglo.


They owe €2.8 billion to Anglo - 5,6,7 % interest plus capital would be say - €300m a year -

How much does Quinn non insurance related activities make / lose a year ??

In other words, is it the insurance company that is keeping the whole Quinn group going ??

Hope not, or else we will have a levy in the next budget to pay for it.
MWWSI 2017

Declan

Again listening to Quinn employees on the radio tonight completely disregarding the fact that their boss played fast and loose with the rules. Kept going on about being profitable and yet ignored the fact that an insurance company is in business to pay claims. Being used and abused yet they can't see it.
As i said previously insurance side of the business is basically sound and the question remains how many jobs can be saved if it's taken over. 

orangeman

Quote from: Declan on April 06, 2010, 10:15:18 PM
Again listening to Quinn employees on the radio tonight completely disregarding the fact that their boss played fast and loose with the rules. Kept going on about being profitable and yet ignored the fact that an insurance company is in business to pay claims. Being used and abused yet they can't see it.
As i said previously insurance side of the business is basically sound and the question remains how many jobs can be saved if it's taken over.


Given that the business is sound, are / will the job losses be as a result of the decline in the UK business ?.

Bogball XV

Quote from: muppet on April 06, 2010, 09:51:36 PM
Quote from: orangeman on April 06, 2010, 09:47:04 PM
How much does Quinn Direct need to put into their reserves to bring the company's ratios into line ???


€400million ??

Depends who you believe Quinn or the regulator but they also need to pay that annually to Anglo.
The anglo loan is to the Quinn Family, but is secured on the assets of the Quinn Group afaik - small, but subtle difference. 

They don't have to transfer any money (I think) to shore up the problem with QI, just get the companies holding the guarantees over QI assets to release them, according to Quinn, this was only a matter of days away from happening, one wonders why Quinn allowed the situation to exist for so long then.