Quinn Insurance in Administration

[Bogball XV]

The regulators are now being ultra careful - they sat on their holes throughout the entire boom and let banks and developers etc do whatever the hell they liked and then the shit hit the fan.


The insurance regulator is now probably being ultra careful and potentially jumping the gun.

I don't know all the details but I'd say they're trying to put manners in Quinn.


Quinn I've no doubt will emerge from this but not without a kicking.

Quinn has undoubtedly been a boon for the fermanagh/cavan area, he's looked after the region well and it's heartening to see such an operation stay true to its roots and create local jobs etc.  But, as the lads say the way he operates we could all be left with a huge bill, the group or QIL will probably come out of this okay, I would think that some sacrifice might be required at the top of the operation though.

[orangeman]

But is not simply to do with guarantees and corss guarantees to associated companies which would now on paper seem to be taking away from the liquidity of the insurance business ?.

[sammymaguire]

I think the Irish banks have alot more to answer for than the Quinn Group and those twats are effectively being rewarded because they are above being punished  the Irish doing things arse about tit as usual

[haranguerer]

The regulators are now being ultra careful - they sat on their holes throughout the entire boom and let banks and developers etc do whatever the hell they liked and then the shit hit the fan.


The insurance regulator is now probably being ultra careful and potentially jumping the gun.

I don't know all the details but I'd say they're trying to put manners in Quinn.


Quinn I've no doubt will emerge from this but not without a kicking.

Quinn has undoubtedly been a boon for the fermanagh/cavan area, he's looked after the region well and it's heartening to see such an operation stay true to its roots and create local jobs etc.  But, as the lads say the way he operates we could all be left with a huge bill, the group or QIL will probably come out of this okay, I would think that some sacrifice might be required at the top of the operation though.

How?

It'd be nothing compared to the bill left if he pulled out of the region anyway. I know that all us fermanagh lads are on here defending him, and we're not exactly unbiased, but, most of the people I know at home work for some part of his operation, and noone who does ever has a bad word for it or him, I think that in itself is rare and while anecdotal, says something for me. I dont know much about the whole ins and outs, but he certainly did seem to be badly treated when that fat bitch Harney ran to make new laws to screw him after he bought into the healthcare market. Who was being unscrupulous there?

[supersarsfields]

The regulators are now being ultra careful - they sat on their holes throughout the entire boom and let banks and developers etc do whatever the hell they liked and then the shit hit the fan.


The insurance regulator is now probably being ultra careful and potentially jumping the gun.

I don't know all the details but I'd say they're trying to put manners in Quinn.


Quinn I've no doubt will emerge from this but not without a kicking.

Quinn has undoubtedly been a boon for the fermanagh/cavan area, he's looked after the region well and it's heartening to see such an operation stay true to its roots and create local jobs etc.  But, as the lads say the way he operates we could all be left with a huge bill, the group or QIL will probably come out of this okay, I would think that some sacrifice might be required at the top of the operation though.

How?

It'd be nothing compared to the bill left if he pulled out of the region anyway. I know that all us fermanagh lads are on here defending him, and we're not exactly unbiased, but, most of the people I know at home work for some part of his operation, and noone who does ever has a bad word for it or him, I think that in itself is rare and while anecdotal, says something for me. I dont know much about the whole ins and outs, but he certainly did seem to be badly treated when that fat bitch Harney ran to make new laws to screw him after he bought into the healthcare market. Who was being unscrupulous there?

I take exception to that!!

[haranguerer]

Merely pointing out my own and a few others geograpical bias, before someone points it out for us in an attempt to rubbish our points

Discerning people from other regions are available, of course: I particularly recommend supersarsfields! 

[screenexile]

Merely pointing out my own and a few others geograpical bias, before someone points it out for us in an attempt to rubbish our points

Discerning people from other regions are available, of course: I particularly recommend supersarsfields! 

Just got word that Quinns are not renewing any business in Northern Ireland anymore!!!

[muppet]

The regulators are now being ultra careful - they sat on their holes throughout the entire boom and let banks and developers etc do whatever the hell they liked and then the shit hit the fan.


The insurance regulator is now probably being ultra careful and potentially jumping the gun.

I don't know all the details but I'd say they're trying to put manners in Quinn.


Quinn I've no doubt will emerge from this but not without a kicking.

Quinn has undoubtedly been a boon for the fermanagh/cavan area, he's looked after the region well and it's heartening to see such an operation stay true to its roots and create local jobs etc.  But, as the lads say the way he operates we could all be left with a huge bill, the group or QIL will probably come out of this okay, I would think that some sacrifice might be required at the top of the operation though.

How?

It'd be nothing compared to the bill left if he pulled out of the region anyway. I know that all us fermanagh lads are on here defending him, and we're not exactly unbiased, but, most of the people I know at home work for some part of his operation, and noone who does ever has a bad word for it or him, I think that in itself is rare and while anecdotal, says something for me. I dont know much about the whole ins and outs, but he certainly did seem to be badly treated when that fat bitch Harney ran to make new laws to screw him after he bought into the healthcare market. Who was being unscrupulous there?

Believe me when I say I detest Harney, but that is a long way from what I remember at the time. Quinn bought in after the (albeit crazy) support scheme for VHI was announced.

[haranguerer]

I'm referring to the initial takeover of BUPA: This is vague because I cant remember the details, and dont have time to check them, but my understanding was that a big factor in his decision to buy was that he would be exempt from payments BUPA had to make to VHI, but the government subsequently rushed through legislation to change this? Sounded like an absolute disgrace I thought at the time...

[muppet]

I'm referring to the initial takeover of BUPA: This is vague because I cant remember the details, and dont have time to check them, but my understanding was that a big factor in his decision to buy was that he would be exempt from payments BUPA had to make to VHI, but the government subsequently rushed through legislation to change this? Sounded like an absolute disgrace I thought at the time...

BUPA pulled out because of the legislation, it can't possibly be claimed that he didn't know about it.

[supersarsfields]

I think we'll hear a lot more tomorrow from Quinns perspective on recent events.

[muppet]

http://www.rte.ie/business/2007/0201/bupa.html


"But the Quinn Group says that, as a new entrant to the market, it will be exempt from these risk equalisation payments for the next three years."

Funnily enough that was early 2007. They knew all about the payments but were happy to have 3 good years before they kicked in.

[haranguerer]

I'm referring to the initial takeover of BUPA: This is vague because I cant remember the details, and dont have time to check them, but my understanding was that a big factor in his decision to buy was that he would be exempt from payments BUPA had to make to VHI, but the government subsequently rushed through legislation to change this? Sounded like an absolute disgrace I thought at the time...

BUPA pulled out because of the legislation, it can't possibly be claimed that he didn't know about it.

How can you read that as saying he didnt know about them? 

I'm saying that in my understanding he should have been exempt from the payments as a new entrant, and this would have been a strong reason supporting the purchase, but they changed the law after he bought it so that he did have to make said payments.

Is that or similar not the case?

[muppet]

I'm referring to the initial takeover of BUPA: This is vague because I cant remember the details, and dont have time to check them, but my understanding was that a big factor in his decision to buy was that he would be exempt from payments BUPA had to make to VHI, but the government subsequently rushed through legislation to change this? Sounded like an absolute disgrace I thought at the time...

BUPA pulled out because of the legislation, it can't possibly be claimed that he didn't know about it.

How can you read that as saying he didnt know about them? 

I'm saying that in my understanding he should have been exempt from the payments as a new entrant, and this would have been a strong reason supporting the purchase, but they changed the law after he bought it so that he did have to make said payments.

Is that or similar not the case?

The risk equalisation law was there before he purchased BUPA. It was the reason BUPA left the Irish market.

To me it looks as if he gambled that he could either be considered a new entrant and not pay for 3 years or that he could appeal the law.

Either way it was a gamble and he knew it going in.

[boojangles]

QUINN-group Ltd Press Release

QUINN-group Limited wishes to comment on the actions of the Financial Regulator yesterday to appoint provisional administrators to QUINN-Insurance Limited (QIL), which we consider to be pre-emptive, aggressive and unnecessary.
As a preliminary matter, we wish to confirm that the QUINN-group and QIL are fully able to meet all of their payment obligations, and (except as disrupted by the Regulator's Actions) our business continues as normal. Policyholders of QUINN-direct, QUINN-life and QUINN-healthcare, and staff, customers and suppliers of the entire QUINN-group, should continue to deal with us as usual.
The Financial Regulator has justified his actions on the grounds of "certain matters within QIL that have very recently come to light". We understand that he is referring to guarantees provided by certain subsidiaries of QIL, some dating back to 2005, supporting the general indebtedness of the QUINN-group. These guarantees are entirely lawful, do not breach any insurance regulations, and were fully disclosed in the statutory accounts of the relevant companies.
We reviewed these guarantees in the context of our current refinancing, and sought the opinion of the Financial Regulator last week. He took the view that the guarantees were inappropriate. Since then we, our financiers and our respective advisers have been working around the clock to respond to the Regulator's questions and to address his concerns. The guarantees have not been called upon, there was no reason to believe that they would be called upon, and the Regulator was provided with comfort on this by our financiers, most recently in a meeting on Monday 29 March. QUINN-group is in the process of negotiating a refinancing which would have addressed the concerns of the Regulator, and we and our financiers remain confident that this will be achieved. Therefore, the Regulator's analysis that these guarantees give rise to a €448m liability is totally incorrect. The Regulator's demand that the guarantees be released was therefore unnecessary, and not practical in the time which he allowed.
In the light of all these facts, of which the Regulator was well aware, we believe the Regulator made the wrong decision. We do not believe that his decision was in the interests of any of the relevant stakeholders - QUINN-group, its staff, its customers or indeed the Irish Exchequer, which has received well in excess of €1bn in tax from QUINN-group since it was established in 1973. Indeed, we note that yesterday was marked by significant announcements in relation to the Irish economy and the banking sector, and it is highly ironic that, on that same day, the Regulator's action was taken in respect of one of the most successful Irish companies, providing crucial jobs in the export sector.
Even if the Regulator's concerns in relation to QIL were well-founded (which we dispute), it is extraordinary that the Regulator was unwilling to give the necessary time to work through those concerns, rather than taking precipitate action which damages the interests of all stakeholders, including the State.
Separately the Financial Regulator has directed QIL to cease writing new business in the UK, and has commented that the UK business is currently unprofitable. We entirely disagree with this statement and unless reversed, this direction will be immensely damaging to the future prospects of QIL.
While we work through the issues which have been caused by the Financial Regulator's actions, QIL remains focussed on the future and will continue to provide a high level of service to all of its customers. We thank our staff, throughout the QUINN-group and especially in QIL, for their continued commitment to the business. We remain totally committed to working with them, and our customers, to get through this difficult period.

Notes for editors:
1.   The QUINN-group employs 5,500 people in Ireland of which 2,700 are employed in QIL.
2.   The Group is (disregarding the effect of the Financial Regulator's actions) on target to achieve cash profits of between €45m and €50m in the first quarter of 2010, and over €20m in each subsequent month during 2010, and between €1.1bn and €1.2bn over the next 3 years. How many Irish companies can say this today?