Antrim Football Thread

Started by theskull1, November 09, 2006, 11:48:40 PM

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Dreen

#23940
Agreed on results but there is definitely more GAA in the school than ever and that now has to be moved on to the next level.

You raised St Ronans who have risen to a great level but there are big differences there with St Louis and that's not just on the staff side. 

As has been raised it's up to clubs to provide the standard of player to excel as schools level and this is the one challenge everyone on here can actually have an effect on

Flanker

Quote from: country bumpkin on January 28, 2022, 10:58:14 AM
Quote from: Saffsof82 on January 28, 2022, 10:40:10 AM
So as ITG says is it chicken and egg?  I still beleive we have to go back to the clubs here. If clubs were supplying players of high standard to St Marys St Louis etc we would be competing in A grade Year 8 competitions and then the poor quality of Gaa progression that Bannside says is happening at St Louis would kick in and everything would go all pete tong from there on.

Elephant in the room is the utter failure of Belfast based schools in major college competitions over the past generation.....
A major city with a population 600k and schools within cannot make a dent I'm Mc Crory cup...
St Louis sits as close as you are going to get to the centre of SW Antrim (Hot bed of Antrim football 😁). With the possible exception of Lisburn, Aghagallen, St Enda's & possibly Glenavy there have been pupils from every other clubs catchment area through the school. Outside of moving it 7/8 miles to Antrim and catching the exceptions above it should with the drive and cooperation. of clubs be a lot more competitive with or without 3G's.


Saffsof82

Quote from: Flanker on January 28, 2022, 11:42:45 AM
Quote from: country bumpkin on January 28, 2022, 10:58:14 AM
Quote from: Saffsof82 on January 28, 2022, 10:40:10 AM
So as ITG says is it chicken and egg?  I still beleive we have to go back to the clubs here. If clubs were supplying players of high standard to St Marys St Louis etc we would be competing in A grade Year 8 competitions and then the poor quality of Gaa progression that Bannside says is happening at St Louis would kick in and everything would go all pete tong from there on.

Elephant in the room is the utter failure of Belfast based schools in major college competitions over the past generation.....
A major city with a population 600k and schools within cannot make a dent I'm Mc Crory cup...
St Louis sits as close as you are going to get to the centre of SW Antrim (Hot bed of Antrim football 😁). With the possible exception of Lisburn, Aghagallen, St Enda's & possibly Glenavy there have been pupils from every other clubs catchment area through the school. Outside of moving it 7/8 miles to Antrim and catching the exceptions above it should with the drive and cooperation. of clubs be a lot more competitive with or without 3G's.

So why is it not winning McCrorys Flanker?

Flanker

Quote from: Dreen on January 28, 2022, 11:41:41 AM
Agreed on results but there is definitely more GAA in the school than ever and that now has to be moved on to the next level.

You raised St Ronans who have risen to a great level but there are big differences there with St Louis and that's not just on the staff side.  They do have the likes of Mickey Donnelly driving the thing

What are the big differences ? Don't forget they are surrounded by multiple schools drawing from / overlapping the catchment area

They do have the likes of Mickey Donnelly driving the thing. Not sure everyone would agree with this


Flanker

Quote from: Saffsof82 on January 28, 2022, 11:45:41 AM
Quote from: Flanker on January 28, 2022, 11:42:45 AM
Quote from: country bumpkin on January 28, 2022, 10:58:14 AM
Quote from: Saffsof82 on January 28, 2022, 10:40:10 AM
So as ITG says is it chicken and egg?  I still beleive we have to go back to the clubs here. If clubs were supplying players of high standard to St Marys St Louis etc we would be competing in A grade Year 8 competitions and then the poor quality of Gaa progression that Bannside says is happening at St Louis would kick in and everything would go all pete tong from there on.

Elephant in the room is the utter failure of Belfast based schools in major college competitions over the past generation.....
A major city with a population 600k and schools within cannot make a dent I'm Mc Crory cup...
St Louis sits as close as you are going to get to the centre of SW Antrim (Hot bed of Antrim football 😁). With the possible exception of Lisburn, Aghagallen, St Enda's & possibly Glenavy there have been pupils from every other clubs catchment area through the school. Outside of moving it 7/8 miles to Antrim and catching the exceptions above it should with the drive and cooperation. of clubs be a lot more competitive with or without 3G's.

So why is it not winning McCrorys Flanker?

I would settle for business end of McLarnon on a regular basis. I believe this should be achievable given the catchment area and a small amount of focus and drive.

Would you not think that is a reasonable goal ?

On MacRorys that would require a much broader approach in ground up coaching at club level delivering a higher calibre player into the school.

It would require support from S/W and Antrim Board to support the school with regard to High quality coaching.

The top level schools are using additional outside resources funded or partially funded by other sources (Not sure if this is county or Ulster funded. Appreciate this may have been difficult over the last couple of years with less funds available)

Dreen

Flanker you raise a fair point but there are many variables to consider in that.  St Louis doesn't get many students from some of the top SW clubs just based on geography to St Mary's Magherafelt which is the closest school and historically was seen as a better school for academic performance.  When dealing with history you would have some parents also wanting the child to go to the same school they did.

The quality of the school team no matter who the coach is will be driven by the success of the Clubs closest to the school and for the players in those clubs to pass the transfer test to get it.

The most successful group of players in my memory of the school had players who were involved in multiple minor championships wins with Sean Stinsons along with a couple of standout players from Glenravel and input from Rasharkin,Dunloy and even Tir Na Nog who were strong at underage then too.



bannside

If we are all genuinely on the same page here about wanting to see football flourishing in the county and us having a county team that has the respect of all, then - leaving all vested interests aside - we need to agree that teams representing us at school level and county minor cship level have been extremely disappointing.

When this subject is raised the usual defences go up and queue the cohort of posters out to protect their interests. I get accused of county bashing..come on, anyone with an inkling of sense knows we are a fair bit off in these departments.

That's not down to one person or one body, it's been going on far too long for that. But to deny it, to say it's not struggling is bullshit and needs to be called out for what it is.

There's plenty of positives. Financially SBF and CA are doing great work. Dunsilly project going well. A few clubs have upped the ante and look to be making good progress. Enda on good progress curve with seniors. That's good, call it as it is. But don't try and mask what we really need to do with county development and schools. We all know that's the area that needs fixing.

But the big prizes await the club's who are doing their juveniles properly. If clubs stepped up to the mark in this area a lot of other problems would be greatly eased.

Saffsof82

Yes BS, its the clubs that must step up. We don't have the same level of passion for gaa in Antrim as you find in south derry or Tyrone (plenty of good gaels on here i know but in clubs it tends to be one or two really dedicated drivers who keep the whole thing going, while in other counties you have 20 of those drivers in every club)
Our juvenile leagues are very poor. The move to All county from divisional boards has been a disaster for sw teams, cant see city teams seeing it as much of an improvement either. How can young players develop only getting 5-6 league games a year!!!

Dreen

Agreed with you the club's BS and there's no doubt about the disappointing results at minor and schools level.

I personally don't have a vested interest, I was just giving my view on Saint Louis which I think is a fair assessment even though I did attend the school.

How do we sort the county development and schools?

Saffsof82

if you had money in the pot, would you employ an outside coach to come into st louis to be head coach? Do the same with St Marys Belfast? Who would you get for such a role?

Spike

Simply if St Louis is to thrive at football you need to convince the parents to send their kids there to get quality education (which it is known for) AND quality football education (which it is not known for).

In the 'hotbed' of SW football - the vast majority of parents of Cargin, Creggan, Moneyglass, Tir na nOg send their kids to South Derry Schools - St Marys, St Pats and St Pius, with sizeable numbers from PG1, Ahoghill and Antrim Town also following suit - all 3 schools now have a highly visible GAA culture within the school and a constant presence of the status of football.   For whatever reason St Louis do not seem to promote that adequately and are known in the area as for their academic excellence only - hardly a slight but GAA mad parents see the south derry schools as a major 2 for 1 offer which can only assist their children.

Lots of promotional work needed in the primary schools allied to a huge promotion within the school 

bannside

Great points being made now. Saffsof82, you've hit the nail on the head sir.

County needs to appoint one or two full time coaches, paid by county funds, to make themselves available to drive on post primary school development.

Between coaching teams, mentoring promising individuals, advocating good practices (S&C, lifestyle diet etc) and monitoring the individual progress in particular of the fellas likely to wear Saffron at senior level in the future.

To act as a safety net to see there is no slippage - how many players slip through the net, it's scary.

Participating schools should be asked to contribute financially pro rata depending on their needs.

Pay these two football coaches well. Don't train them up for a year to leave for another job because they can't get a mortgage. Make it a job quality coaches desire. Let them see it as a career.

If two are working well, maybe think about funding a third or fourth in time.

Love your idea Saffs. Could solve so many problems in one swoop. Simple effective and utterly doable!

And could these two coaches step up for a bit of overtime with development squads?

clootfromthe21

Quote from: Spike on January 28, 2022, 12:46:39 PM
Simply if St Louis is to thrive at football you need to convince the parents to send their kids there to get quality education (which it is known for) AND quality football education (which it is not known for).

In the 'hotbed' of SW football - the vast majority of parents of Cargin, Creggan, Moneyglass, Tir na nOg send their kids to South Derry Schools - St Marys, St Pats and St Pius, with sizeable numbers from PG1, Ahoghill and Antrim Town also following suit - all 3 schools now have a highly visible GAA culture within the school and a constant presence of the status of football.   For whatever reason St Louis do not seem to promote that adequately and are known in the area as for their academic excellence only - hardly a slight but GAA mad parents see the south derry schools as a major 2 for 1 offer which can only assist their children.

Lots of promotional work needed in the primary schools allied to a huge promotion within the school

Because football is essentially the third game in the school behind hurling and soccer???

If you live the South West and football is a significant factor in where you want to send your son to school, as many posters here have already said, you send your child to Maghera or Magherafelt. If all the "good" footballers are already going to Derry schools, how do you realistically expect St Louis to address that situation?

Saffsof82

yes cloot, needs to be some major carrot to entice those who would head across the Bann to convent, st pious or maghera.

Flanker

Quote from: clootfromthe21 on January 28, 2022, 01:39:00 PM
Quote from: Spike on January 28, 2022, 12:46:39 PM
Simply if St Louis is to thrive at football you need to convince the parents to send their kids there to get quality education (which it is known for) AND quality football education (which it is not known for).

In the 'hotbed' of SW football - the vast majority of parents of Cargin, Creggan, Moneyglass, Tir na nOg send their kids to South Derry Schools - St Marys, St Pats and St Pius, with sizeable numbers from PG1, Ahoghill and Antrim Town also following suit - all 3 schools now have a highly visible GAA culture within the school and a constant presence of the status of football.   For whatever reason St Louis do not seem to promote that adequately and are known in the area as for their academic excellence only - hardly a slight but GAA mad parents see the south derry schools as a major 2 for 1 offer which can only assist their children.

Lots of promotional work needed in the primary schools allied to a huge promotion within the school

Because football is essentially the third game in the school behind hurling and soccer???

If you live the South West and football is a significant factor in where you want to send your son to school, as many posters here have already said, you send your child to Maghera or Magherafelt. If all the "good" footballers are already going to Derry schools, how do you realistically expect St Louis to address that situation?
If you look at the Maghera & Magherafelt squads  and teams there would be a small proportion from Antrim clubs most years but not big numbers. The chicken and egg situation is for St Louis to attract some of the guys who would go to the South Derry schools and also some of the guys who go to  St Killians. Become consistently competitive at B level and work from there. There will always be some guys who go to the South Derry schools but every school be it Down Armagh Tyrone etc have players who cross borders and catchment aeeas. Maximise the available talent and they won't be far awsy