Armagh v Tyrone [Athletic Grounds, Sun 5th June, 1.30]

[Orior]

Any word yet on who left the car engine running and went on into the match? 😮

[Armagh18]

The big difference in Armagh is they are making teams now  go down the wings were they do the fouling. Making sure they can funnell players back then. As a Dublin poster put it the ref hadn't the balls to send a few of double yellow. Everyone says it's poor tackling but it's far from it. Kermit took 7 steps for the goal

Dry your eyes

[Ethan Tremblay]

Great game of football on display yesterday and some great scores.  My summary

Armagh
I though they won the majority of their battles across the pitch.  Playing Rafferty in nets when the midfield options were sparce was a brave decision.
Very impressed with Morgan in the backline, he seems to have cut out the reckless fouling he was becoming known for and made some crucial, direct runs. 
The Armagh bench flattered as well, great to see Murnin get a few scores and Turbitt tipping over with one also.  Thought grugan had a very subdued game.
 
Tyrone
With the Jekyll and Hyde season they had it was hard to see what was going to turn up today.  Their early goal should have made them kick on and try and establish a lead on Armagh, but they allowed them back into the game too easy. 
Some of the bigger players never showed up, Donnelly was anonymous as was Harte as the game progressed.  Killpatrick was a miss also, Tyrone struggled around the middle in terms of kickouts and runners breaking the lines. 
Management have to look at the decision to hand number 2 his debut.  Maybe it was a lack of belief that Nugent would be a big scoring threat for Armagh, but he had a tough day at the office and McGeary sorted that as soon as he came on. 
Also found it odd Canavan wasn't introduced earlier.  He is a direct player and his first time getting the ball he went straight through the middle of the Armagh defence and got fouled for a free. 

Referee
I thought he done alright considering.  I noticed a few Tyrone frees, the players were playing for the fouls, leaning into the Armagh players as the tackles were coming in.  The ref will tend to give the man on the ball the benefit of the doubt, but it's a small bit of gamesmanship that they could have held off on until later in the second half.  A few times it was attempted and Tyrone got penalised for it when they needed possession the most. 

Again this was an ideal match for both teams, again I felt there was no point in a handy draw and extending the inevitable.  For Tyrone, a mental break until Christmas time is the best thing for a lot of those players.  You can rest assured they will come back swinging next year. 

[trueblue1234]

Well done to Armagh. Well worth their victory and played some great football to boot.
Chat about the ref not being good only distracts from the lack of urgency there seemed to be in Tyrone this year. Bit of a reset required and perhaps some new personnel for start of next year.
Hopefully a few like Burns, McShane, McGeary can go back to the clubs and pull together some performances . It all seemed like a chore to some of them this year, so maybe a long break like this will give them a chance to get the hungry back. Plus with some of the U20's raring to get a chance it's not all doom and gloom.
I'd definitely have questions over the management. Tactically we just don't seem to be able to change up during games anymore. And a bit slow to react to some obvious dangers. But they have a bit in the tank from last year. But they also looked a bit jaded this year. Managing Tyrone isn't an easy job and you'll always have the complainers. It's bound to take its toll when things aren't going well.

Good luck to Armagh for the rest of the year. With Derry and Armagh starting to get competitive, Ulsters still in a good position. Just don't see an AI coming this year unfortunately. That said, I didn't see one last year either!!

[tbrick18]

Armagh by a mile the better team on the day.
However, like the Derry v Tyrone game its difficult to judge how good Armagh were as Tyrone were brutal.
The kicking game certainly suits Armagh I think. They've also improved defensively. The keeper was a master stroke, but not sure he'd get the free run in the next game.

Tyrone have a long way to go to get back I think.

[Taylor]

There definitely seems to be something amiss in the camp.
To have so many defections on an AI winning team shows something isnt right.

We havent performed all year - the game in Killarney was a nothing game to Kerry so you could discount it.

We have been average to poor in every other game this season.

Bringing on McGlennon would be a serious kick in the teeth for any other man on the bench given he just joined the panel.

The two managers have to take responsibility for leaving Campbell free for so long - it was like he was a free man FFS.

A break will do us no harm.

Best wishes to our near neighbours - but I would hasten to add that it is no big deal beating us this year

[thewobbler]

There definitely seems to be something amiss in the camp.
To have so many defections on an AI winning team shows something isnt right.

We havent performed all year - the game in Killarney was a nothing game to Kerry so you could discount it.

We have been average to poor in every other game this season.

Bringing on McGlennon would be a serious kick in the teeth for any other man on the bench given he just joined the panel.

The two managers have to take responsibility for leaving Campbell free for so long - it was like he was a free man FFS.

A break will do us no harm.

Best wishes to our near neighbours - but I would hasten to add that it is no big deal beating us this year

Why does something have to be amiss?

Up until Mayo beat Dublin last year, deep down, not one person in the Tyrone camp really believed they could win an All Ireland. Dublin were just better than them and 95% of the Tyrone panel had the scars to prove it.

Then over the course of 5 weeks, an experienced and talented group of players gained belief, came together and delivered.

They were never going to a be a 3-in-a-row kind of side as actually winning an AI final was absolute bonus territory. They have achieved their holy grail.

So anyone expecting them to come out this year with focused determination to prove themselves a team for the ages, was, well, misplaced in their expectations.

Give it a season or two for the most fiercely competitive current squad players to take the younger players under the wing, ms dislodge those who just don't have the same fires in their bellies, and Tyrone will be back competing again.

[trueblue1234]

There definitely seems to be something amiss in the camp.
To have so many defections on an AI winning team shows something isnt right.

We havent performed all year - the game in Killarney was a nothing game to Kerry so you could discount it.

We have been average to poor in every other game this season.

Bringing on McGlennon would be a serious kick in the teeth for any other man on the bench given he just joined the panel.

The two managers have to take responsibility for leaving Campbell free for so long - it was like he was a free man FFS.

A break will do us no harm.

Best wishes to our near neighbours - but I would hasten to add that it is no big deal beating us this year

Why does something have to be amiss?

Up until Mayo beat Dublin last year, deep down, not one person in the Tyrone camp really believed they could win an All Ireland. Dublin were just better than them and 95% of the Tyrone panel had the scars to prove it.

Then over the course of 5 weeks, an experienced and talented group of players gained belief, came together and delivered.

They were never going to a be a 3-in-a-row kind of side as actually winning an AI final was absolute bonus territory. They have achieved their holy grail.

So anyone expecting them to come out this year with focused determination to prove themselves a team for the ages, was, well, misplaced in their expectations.

Give it a season or two for the most fiercely competitive current squad players to take the younger players under the wing, ms dislodge those who just don't have the same fires in their bellies, and Tyrone will be back competing again.

It's the deflections that would raise question marks tbh and the manor or defeat in some games. I don't think they are serial AI champions. But I do think they have better players than both Derry and Armagh (No disrespect intended, just my opinion). 
I agree we'll be back, we have been there or thereabouts for the guts of 20 odd years now. And there seems to be a supply of stronger players beginning to rear its head again. So fingers crossed. But I don't think it's crazy territory to wonder what caused the deflections and poor performances this year. Maybe it was nothing but lack of hunger. But we're not Dublin, That was these guys first AI. And given the shorter commitment required this year I'd be surprised at that. And if it was, I would expect the management to address that better and at least get a better tune from them. We didn't turn into a bad team overnight. So there's always a cause imo.

[thewobbler]

But the cause is simple to identify: a group of established players unexpectedly won an All Ireland title. Their life goal was achieved. So some of the players sailed off into the sunset, and some more turned it down a notch. Even if there's a couple of psychotic must-win-at-all-costs leaders within the camp, it's not enough to counteract a reduction in effort and desire from so many.

[trueblue1234]

But the cause is simple to identify: a group of established players unexpectedly won an All Ireland title. Their life goal was achieved. So some of the players sailed off into the sunset, and some more turned it down a notch. Even if there's a couple of psychotic must-win-at-all-costs leaders within the camp, it's not enough to counteract a reduction in effort and desire from so many.

But it's not, because you are just throwing out a possibility same as everyone else.
It's not one I'd subscribe to tbh, it may be part of the issue but in my view I think there were other issues. So we're hardly losing the run of ourselves to be discussing them.

[Gael80]

But the cause is simple to identify: a group of established players unexpectedly won an All Ireland title. Their life goal was achieved. So some of the players sailed off into the sunset, and some more turned it down a notch. Even if there's a couple of psychotic must-win-at-all-costs leaders within the camp, it's not enough to counteract a reduction in effort and desire from so many.

But it's not, because you are just throwing out a possibility same as everyone else.
It's not one I'd subscribe to tbh, it may be part of the issue but in my view I think there were other issues. So we're hardly losing the run of ourselves to be discussing them.

Imo the issue is Tyrone played Division 1, beat a few Ulster teams but were never really genuine All Ireland contenders in the years before 2021. Dublin and Mayo were the two contenders 2015 - 2020. Tyrone got a bit of luck last season and my guess is many in the Tyrone camp knew that, and realise getting it again would be unlikely.

Tyrone 2022 are similar to Tyrone pre 2020, they'll battle on but when challenged by a good team in the championship they more than not fall the wrong side of the result. The previous management team imo worked wonders with Tyrone football and the new management team benefited off the back of that but got the luck around the semi final issues.

Tyrone will regroup but this season shouldn't be a big shock, there'll be more defeats and early exits in the years ahead whilst they rebuild.

[Armamike]

Don't expect Tyrone ones will be too disappointed when the dust settles.  Winning the AI last year, and the gravy train rumbling on with more underage success, should lessen the pain a bit.  Most counties' supporters would be more than happy with that scenario and challenging every few years!

[trueblue1234]

But the cause is simple to identify: a group of established players unexpectedly won an All Ireland title. Their life goal was achieved. So some of the players sailed off into the sunset, and some more turned it down a notch. Even if there's a couple of psychotic must-win-at-all-costs leaders within the camp, it's not enough to counteract a reduction in effort and desire from so many.

But it's not, because you are just throwing out a possibility same as everyone else.
It's not one I'd subscribe to tbh, it may be part of the issue but in my view I think there were other issues. So we're hardly losing the run of ourselves to be discussing them.

Imo the issue is Tyrone played Division 1, beat a few Ulster teams but were never really genuine All Ireland contenders in the years before 2021. Dublin and Mayo were the two contenders 2015 - 2020. Tyrone got a bit of luck last season and my guess is many in the Tyrone camp knew that, and realise getting it again would be unlikely.

Tyrone 2022 are similar to Tyrone pre 2020, they'll battle on but when challenged by a good team in the championship they more than not fall the wrong side of the result. The previous management team imo worked wonders with Tyrone football and the new management team benefited off the back of that but got the luck around the semi final issues.

Tyrone will regroup but this season shouldn't be a big shock, there'll be more defeats and early exits in the years ahead whilst they rebuild.

Not winning an AI again definitely isn't a shock. But I'd have fancied them to get to the later stages at least. We usually do. More the manner in which we bowed out tbh. And the fact that we didn't click all year. It's not a big deal in the grand scheme of things and the under age looks good. But still poses some questions.

[tiempo]

Is there anything to be said against members of the backroom team double and triple jobbing? How many teams can someone be involved in before their headspace becomes so full of the various teams, players, schedules, venues, opposition, referees that they lose focus or burn out? You would think the Tyrone ticket is the biggest call-up you can get and while involved its the only show in town. Peaking in sport isn't a phenomenon exclusive to players, managers and backroom need to be at it that bit more during the business end too, if you're trying to peak for 2 or 3 different teams who are all at different stages of their season, when does the well run dry?

[tyrone08]

But the cause is simple to identify: a group of established players unexpectedly won an All Ireland title. Their life goal was achieved. So some of the players sailed off into the sunset, and some more turned it down a notch. Even if there's a couple of psychotic must-win-at-all-costs leaders within the camp, it's not enough to counteract a reduction in effort and desire from so many.

But it's not, because you are just throwing out a possibility same as everyone else.
It's not one I'd subscribe to tbh, it may be part of the issue but in my view I think there were other issues. So we're hardly losing the run of ourselves to be discussing them.

Imo the issue is Tyrone played Division 1, beat a few Ulster teams but were never really genuine All Ireland contenders in the years before 2021. Dublin and Mayo were the two contenders 2015 - 2020. Tyrone got a bit of luck last season and my guess is many in the Tyrone camp knew that, and realise getting it again would be unlikely.

Tyrone 2022 are similar to Tyrone pre 2020, they'll battle on but when challenged by a good team in the championship they more than not fall the wrong side of the result. The previous management team imo worked wonders with Tyrone football and the new management team benefited off the back of that but got the luck around the semi final issues.

Tyrone will regroup but this season shouldn't be a big shock, there'll be more defeats and early exits in the years ahead whilst they rebuild.

Not winning an AI again definitely isn't a shock. But I'd have fancied them to get to the later stages at least. We usually do. More the manner in which we bowed out tbh. And the fact that we didn't click all year. It's not a big deal in the grand scheme of things and the under age looks good. But still poses some questions.

An overlooked issue is that after winning the AI the players were playing with their clubs until Dec 2021. Then they had a holiday in Jan 2022 then straight I to mckenna cup, league and championship. There was no real time to rest and regroup and refocus like there normally is. Basically the team hadn't stopped since early 2021