Messages

It was hardly a contest. Not one tyrone supporter i talked to had any belief in winning the final. Please stop with the we got to an ai final last year. The only decent team we played on route was monaghan.

Can you honestly say if we had of played kerry or mayo in the semi final that we would have won?.

Its time to be realistic and stop blinding hoping for a miracle. We will not be close to winning an ai for at least another 4 years.

I expect Tyrone to be poor and get beat again. If thats the case the regulation is likely. Serious questions must then be asked.

The whole its only Feb or its only the league doesnt wash with me. If players cant kick the ball over the bar or win the breaking ball now then its not going to improve by June/July.

I could see past it if there was a raft of new players in the squad but this has been more or less the same squad for over 3 years now. Same problems year after year.

Dont shoot me down but I have been wondering why Dublin haven't re-developed Parnell park for a bigger capacity or built a new ground?

Does anyone know how many people need to attend croke park in order for it to make a profit. I heard years ago a figure of around 40,000 but not sure if this is true.

I would imagine there is alot of cost involved in opening it up for games where only 30,000 or so attend.

[Brolly and Dessie Dolan were almost creaming themselves last night watching the Kerry v Dubs game and saying this is how football should be played. Poor JC didn't know now whether to interrupt them and disagree with everything Joe said as before or to let them both off the leash.]

Yes i would agree with a lack of attacking plan. I cant get my head around how they think they are going to win matches without putting the ball over the bar.

You have to imagine their training is focused around defence snd retaining possession. What is the point in steve oneill? he must not be allowed too much input. Havent seen any benefit of him coming into the set up. Hes better off out of it if he is not allowed to input into attacking play. Most teams would love a player of oneills calibre coaching the forwards.

I wouldn't be holding out too much hope that this is some master plan not to peak early. This team cant even get the basics right at the minute.

Have we seen this before where we go into a new season full of hope and excitement with how good the new recruits look in the McKenna cup and talk of huge competition for places and then it all falls flat on its face.

A few weeks ago we were EXPECTING to win for the first time in a long time down in Killarney but again we are left feeling a little cheated as fans and wonder what the hell is going on.
It seems pretty obvious now that the team has no interest in fighting too hard for a win at this time of year and are just going through the motions. Our lack of an obvious Plan B has risen its head again as we continue to be very predictable and want to run with the ball all the time and then don't know how to break down a defensive blanket.

Brolly and Dessie Dolan were almost creaming themselves last night watching the Kerry v Dubs game and saying this is how football should be played. Poor JC didn't know now whether to interrupt them and disagree with everything Joe said as before or to let them both off the leash.

It seems pretty obvious from Harte's interviews and newspaper chat that he has zero interest in this league and staying up is his aim and even if we go down is it that bad.
The run last year to the AI Final probably has confirmed his beliefs about you gotta pace yourself and be more ready for July and August rather than worrying should you lose a first round match in Ulster in late May.
With what SHOULD BE two easy games v Derry and Antrim to begin with I'd say Mickey's focus is on 9th June semifinal v Fermanagh or Donegal.

I know I know I shouldn't make assumptions to beat 2 Div four teams.

Re Midfield, I thought Kennedy would be catching a lot more clean ball but I suppose this is all very new to him and he's not really had a good partner in the middle.

One big rumour indeed where we should all back off and stop digging. Do ever learn to stop adding to the bad news that follows us around and let sleeping dogs lie.

If you are being completely honest I think there is a lot to be admired with how both teams played on Saturday night. Now whilst I wasn't there at that game nor even the Tyrone game yesterday - elements may/may not have been a factor both Keane and Horan have come in this year and given their attack clear purpose, get it in there. Maybe the inside mark coming in has helped this, but you have to wonder what Harte and O'Neill are telling the tyrone players because there doesn't seem to be one player willing to be selfless and get the head up and kick in straight away. Instead it's a near obsession with safety, getting it sidewards, go back, keep the ball, slow.....My issue is there doesn't seem to be any kind of attacking plan right now. Would that be a fair enough comment?

Does anyone know what the supposed row was about? Must havebeen serious enough to still affect the team

The last 2 years have been very misleading. Yes we reached the semi final and then a final but we had easy runs. I dont recall tyrone beating Kerry, Mayo or Dublin in the later stages of an AI for a long time now. Point is we are way behind the top teams.

Theres no shame in losing but its the manner of our losses that bother me. Consistently trying to defend while we are getting beat by 3-4points. Would rather tyrone go all out and playing attacking football and get beat by 10 points than watch them defend a 3 point loss.

This is why i have for years said its time for mickey to go. Hes far too stubborn to change, watching tyrone year after year with the same issues at fault is like ground hog day.

Common question is who will replace him? My answer is who cares. So we dont win the mckenna cup big deal. With monaghan, armagh and donegal improving Tyrone wont win ulster with thr current style of play

Beginning to think your right. Even if Tyrone won the AI last year still would have wanted Harte to go. 16 years is too long for any manager especially one as stubborn as harte

quote author=southtyronegael link=topic=2312.msg1877566#msg1877566 date=1549309112]
Well the good people of Tyrone voted to give harte 3 years so we are stuck with him. I've a feeling he will be there alot longer than the 3 years. He has the whole thing sewn up.
[/quote]

While it is very early days yet the signs are great for Tyrone. I believed last year we had an easy path to the final which glossed over the issues. We wont get anywhere near it this year if we meet any of the top 4 teams.

Still cant believe we are starting this year with the same issues as the last 5 years. No class forwards, no free taker etc.

On a separate note is this hartes last year in terms of contract?

Very measured and balance interview from Canavan. 8 officials at the game deemed it accidental. 26 cards yes, but 6 players picked up 18 of these, 2 yellows and a red. I'm pretty sure a Stewartstown player picked up a worse injury than Sean and spent the night in hospital. I don't see his pic on twitter though. anyone seen it?

In defence of Sean which I dont normally do, people are getting carried away with this thing of "oh he put it on social media, he's looking attention", in his defence he was probably receiving hundreds of get well soon messages and I know i wouldnt be arsed replying back to all of them adn it would take forever,  the best thing to do is let everyone know you are ok with a post on his page and to say he appreciate's all the messages etc etc
Also he's not the first man to do this, ive seen instances of this before this season with footballers getting hurt in a game and going to social media to let everyone know he's ok, it is social media,thats the point of social media!!!! I dont like namin g people but one example is Carson of Greencastle, in this instance Gallagher (and rightly so) took the barage of the abuse for his actions and Carson none and rightly so, who we all wished him a speedy recovery, but in big Seans situation the majority are calling him names and all sorts because he put it on social media, weather or not it was accidental or intentional, at the end of the day he was concussed, broke his nose and had a suspected broken jaw and to be honest I had heard there was more damage so im glad he put up the post to correct everyone and let us know the damage and that he was ok again!!

If sean had of cleaned the dry blood of his face it wouldnt have looked as bad.  Attention seeking at his best.  There is no chance of Sean slipping away into the background once his county career is over.

Did you see the swelling on his face?? I imagine his face would have been quite sore to touch. Im sure you would have just wiped the blood away and cracked on with it.

I am curious to know myself. I am 100% certin that cathal would hsve gotten a lot of abuse on thr football pitch. Drew has a right to be upset but only if he has never sledged anyone himself before. If he has then he shouldnt be complaining.

While brolly is  a muppet it is difficult to argue with him. I myself thought harte should have walked away with a great rep around 20011/2012. I do think he is past it  and for me he is only damaging his rep the longer he stays. Just my opinon but think Tyrone will bd a better team a few years after he steps down.

and why was tiaran mc cann givin the job of marking kilkenny? totally backfired. lee brennan actually ended up marking him late on when he got another point. we got a goal and a point directly from the 'hail marys' but we only started doin it when we were 8 points down with 5 mins to go. if we had of done it from the start we could easily have been 8 points up before Dublin started playing. game lost on the sideline.

No, you would have sacrificed our early points for low percentage goal chances. Colm cavanagh won one duel in the square, Dublin reacted by double marking him and the next ball was snuffed out in an instant. It would have been suicide to do what you suggest.

I disagree. Cavanagh knocked the second high ball down and Peter harte was fouled for tapover free. So 1-1 first two balls in. If we had done this first 5 mins then Dublin put 2 men in square on cavanagh surely then we would have an extra man out field? Then we really would have been in business.

I was completely certain that Colm would either start at FF or at least spend considerable time up there. Everyone knew Dublin was doggy under the high ball and even at worst case like you said they would have to double mark him which freed up someone else.

I was shocked when Mickey said to BBC that it wasn't something they had worked on or thought off when questioned about it.

I would take your point that Tyrone would benefit from the confidence boost of beating a Mayo or Kerry in a big game in Croke Park. But if we aren't drawn against them what can we do. People are already forgetting that before the Donegal and Monaghan games last month virtually everyone was saying these were 50/50 games and too close to call, yet now we are given very little credit for winning them.

As for the point that we only beat Monaghan because of a lucky goal, we should've been out of sight at half time only for some woeful shooting and decision making (which also came back to haunt us in the final).

Going forward I think we could really do with having a real push for the League next year. If we were to win it or make the final it would be a huge confidence boost for this team and cement our position as a really top team. It would also be huge for this team if we could beat Dublin in the league. I think deep down the players this year may have had their doubts about whether they were capable of winning that final and perhaps thats why the first goal was such a hammer blow even though it only brought the sides level. Whereas if we could beat them in the League the players would think we can beat them in the Championship as well

yeah I agree with your points. We should have been out of sight for the Monaghan game but as I said our shooting let us down again and again in the final. It is annoying to see that our shooting is a constant issue for the last number of years.

I am aware that our system has changed and evolved but again our shooting hasnt. Over the last few games Tyrone players done 90% of the hard work in turning over the opposition, getting the ball into a scoring position then either kicking badly wide or dropping it into the keepers hands.

1st half of the Monaghan game I think 8 wides were kicked along with 4 dropped short into keepers hands. Against Dublin it was 16 wides. We can only go so far without addressing this.

Agree with you about the league. Target at least a semi final in the league and build upon that.

It does say alot about the players belief in themselves whenever Colm came out and said they were shocked to be 5-1 up against the Dubs. The team of the 00s wouldnt have been shocked, the would have turned the screw even more.

[The fact remains that we haven't beaten 1 any of the big teams (Dublin, Kerry, Mayo) since 2009]

I think after the euphoria from the weekend subsides and we sit down and thoroughly assess where we're at, we'll find we are probably as far away as we have been since 2011.

The fact remains that we haven't beaten 1 any of the big teams (Dublin, Kerry, Mayo) since 2009. No team that we have beaten in a knock-out match since 2013 has went on to win the All-Ireland. We are a fair ways behind both Mayo and Kerry. We benefited greatly from both of them having an off year. We were glorified Ulster Champions by virtue of the Super 8. The All Ireland Final was over as a contest after 33mins. I'm by no means a Harte basher but we have to be honest. It's not good enough. Only for a fortuitous Darren Hughes block which resulted in Sludden's goal it was 50/50 whether or not we were going to beat Monaghan. I'm not sure if a management team needs assembled, or if we're simply not good enough but since we lost to Mayo in 2016, everything has been geared towards to the Dubs both fitness wise and system wise, and now twice we have come up short. I detest mentioning him but I listen to Wooly Parkinson but he called it completely right last week, Colly Cav and/or his role was completely negated by the Dubs, so essentially we were 15 v 14 for the whole match. I'm just not sure where we go or what we do from here, if we're not as fit as the Dubs, then do we need a new trainer, if our system is outdated then do we need a new manager? Or is it simply that we don't have the players? I'm sure we will all watch club championship games over the next few months and see classy, strong athletic players who we know just won't fit in with Mickey's plan. So I'll let you all discuss.

Also been saying this

And its now 3 times, in 2 years, Dublin have beaten Tyrone while only in 3rd gear

I would counter that by saying that, with the obvious exception of Dublin who are probably the best team ever, we have beaten whoever has been put infront of us in the last two seasons. I would argue that 2017 and 2018 are the strongest teams Tyrone have had since at least 2010 and it's not their fault that they haven't been drawn against Mayo, Kerry or even Galway this year as I see no reason why we couldn't have beaten any of them and then this wouldn't be a stick that could be used to beat this Tyrone team

I entirely agree, lazy analysis. As things stand, in my view we are a better team than the other teams mentioned in 2018, maybe not until 2017, but  because we haven't played them in 2018 doesn't mean we haven't surpassed them.

I wouldn't call it lazy analysis at all. Monaghan knocked us out in the first game of the championship, the lucky goal we got made it look a bit more respectable. We struggled badly against Meath and should have been knocked out in normal time. Had a few easy games and then almost kicked ourselves out of it against Monaghan in the semi final.

We have played Dublin, Kerry and Mayo numerous times in the last 10 years in either the Quarter finals, Semi finals or Final and we have been well beaten on every single occasion. 

This will continue for at least another 3 years as Harte refuses to change anything. Its as clear as day to every ex Tyrone player, sports writer, TV presenter etc that we need to make changes but I can 100% guarantee that we wont. Harte seems determined to prove everyone wrong by playing the same players with the same set up hoping that they will win. Its utter madness.

Next year Tyrone may win Ulster but with Donegal and Monaghan improving it is looking unlikely. They may get through the Super 8s depending on the group but as soon as they meet Mayo, Dublin or Kerry they will be knocked out. Its ground hog day in Tyrone the past 10 years.

We won a few easy games and then beat Monaghan in the semi final? Did you just ignore the fact that we went up to Ballybofey and beat Donegal there for the first time since 1973? The current Ulster champions who had won it at their ease? Even the Roscommon game was seen as a tricky match. They had drawn with Mayo at the same stage last year and played some great football beating Armagh. They also had put it up to Galway. We effectively ended their season that day so their subsequent matches can be ignored.

I've saw a lot of people saying Harte won't change things and everything is the same as last year. No offence but that is absolute rubbish. He added O'Neill to the backroom team and made 6/7 changes to the starting 15 from last year. And although it didn't work our tactics were very different to last year versus Dublin. We by and large went man for man and didn't sit with a blanket defence. We tried to press higher up the pitch and altered tactics within the games.

I'd like to see us focus on playing more man for man next year. We really need to focus on kickouts (both our own and opposition) as they are so crucial at taking on Dublin. Forward play also needs looked at obviously with a lot more focus on getting the ball into the right area's.

Kerry and Mayo were poor in this year's championship so I've no idea why would need to beat them to prove we were the second best team. Monaghan should have beat Kerry by 7 or 8 points. Galway have a lot to prove still as well and lost easily to the Monaghan team we knocked out.

Overall it has been a positive season with a number of players improving. Still lots to work on but I'd be hopeful the players won't back down from the challenge. I'm sure they'll be a lot more dignified than some of the boys on here and there over the top personal criticisms/abuse.

Just to make it clear I am offering constructive criticism, I am not bashing anyone but no one can or should ignore that we still have work to do. I care about Tyrone football and want them to reach their potential. 

Donegal won the easiest Ulster in recent years. This Dongeal team are an up and coming team and are not the finished article. You make it sound like we beat the old Dongeal team of Jim Guinness.

Harte added O'Neill to the back room team but is he allowing him to have a big input? If you look at the last 3-4 years shooting has been and is still one of our biggest issues. Our players still make poor decisions even though most of these players have been about for a few years now. I would like to see it set up a bit like American football where we have a defensive coach and an attacking coach. I just dont think O'Neill is being given the freedom he should be.

Agreed I would like us to go man to man more. While our performance has improved against Dublin compared with last year everyone knew Colm does not play well against the Dubs as they bypass his sweeper role. There was enough articles written before the game highlighting this. He should have been pushed up the field more to put Dublin on the back foot.

This Tyrone team need to beat a Kerry, Mayo or Dublin in order to give them confidence that they can do it. I sort of think its like a mental road block. Beating Donegal at home was a good start but they need to be confident that they can beat the top teams which hasnt happened this last number of years.

I agree people should not have bashing for the sake of bashing but at the same point there is no point in year after year patting them on the back saying well done when with a few more positive improvements and addressing failings such as shooting they could be winning AIs.

[The fact remains that we haven't beaten 1 any of the big teams (Dublin, Kerry, Mayo) since 2009]

I think after the euphoria from the weekend subsides and we sit down and thoroughly assess where we're at, we'll find we are probably as far away as we have been since 2011.

The fact remains that we haven't beaten 1 any of the big teams (Dublin, Kerry, Mayo) since 2009. No team that we have beaten in a knock-out match since 2013 has went on to win the All-Ireland. We are a fair ways behind both Mayo and Kerry. We benefited greatly from both of them having an off year. We were glorified Ulster Champions by virtue of the Super 8. The All Ireland Final was over as a contest after 33mins. I'm by no means a Harte basher but we have to be honest. It's not good enough. Only for a fortuitous Darren Hughes block which resulted in Sludden's goal it was 50/50 whether or not we were going to beat Monaghan. I'm not sure if a management team needs assembled, or if we're simply not good enough but since we lost to Mayo in 2016, everything has been geared towards to the Dubs both fitness wise and system wise, and now twice we have come up short. I detest mentioning him but I listen to Wooly Parkinson but he called it completely right last week, Colly Cav and/or his role was completely negated by the Dubs, so essentially we were 15 v 14 for the whole match. I'm just not sure where we go or what we do from here, if we're not as fit as the Dubs, then do we need a new trainer, if our system is outdated then do we need a new manager? Or is it simply that we don't have the players? I'm sure we will all watch club championship games over the next few months and see classy, strong athletic players who we know just won't fit in with Mickey's plan. So I'll let you all discuss.

Also been saying this

And its now 3 times, in 2 years, Dublin have beaten Tyrone while only in 3rd gear

I would counter that by saying that, with the obvious exception of Dublin who are probably the best team ever, we have beaten whoever has been put infront of us in the last two seasons. I would argue that 2017 and 2018 are the strongest teams Tyrone have had since at least 2010 and it's not their fault that they haven't been drawn against Mayo, Kerry or even Galway this year as I see no reason why we couldn't have beaten any of them and then this wouldn't be a stick that could be used to beat this Tyrone team

I entirely agree, lazy analysis. As things stand, in my view we are a better team than the other teams mentioned in 2018, maybe not until 2017, but  because we haven't played them in 2018 doesn't mean we haven't surpassed them.

I wouldn't call it lazy analysis at all. Monaghan knocked us out in the first game of the championship, the lucky goal we got made it look a bit more respectable. We struggled badly against Meath and should have been knocked out in normal time. Had a few easy games and then almost kicked ourselves out of it against Monaghan in the semi final.

We have played Dublin, Kerry and Mayo numerous times in the last 10 years in either the Quarter finals, Semi finals or Final and we have been well beaten on every single occasion. 

This will continue for at least another 3 years as Harte refuses to change anything. Its as clear as day to every ex Tyrone player, sports writer, TV presenter etc that we need to make changes but I can 100% guarantee that we wont. Harte seems determined to prove everyone wrong by playing the same players with the same set up hoping that they will win. Its utter madness.

Next year Tyrone may win Ulster but with Donegal and Monaghan improving it is looking unlikely. They may get through the Super 8s depending on the group but as soon as they meet Mayo, Dublin or Kerry they will be knocked out. Its ground hog day in Tyrone the past 10 years.

[Peter Harte]

Unfortunately the final in the end kind of passed Tyrone by, it was a huge ask to begin with as almost we all acknowledged.

The really annoying thing from a Tyrone point of view is that our so called stellar players, the final passed them by even more glaringly - Peter Harte, Mattie Donnelly, Niall Sludden and Colm Cavanagh were very poor (who I pointed out that the Dubs target prior and after the Super 8 game). Obviously they were up against the best, but these were the guys that were meant to lead the charge and impose themselves. I thought R.Brennan done rightly and certainly you wouldn't be worried about throwing him into the starting team from here on. Mark Bradley as well.

Looking ahead, Tyrone are in a relatively decent place - Dublin can't and won't go forever. Mayo and Kerry have a new set up to come. Monaghan will be gutted - but will certainly be back next year almong the final 4 or so depending on the draw.

Up to Mickey Harte now to get out and look at the club championship, if Dublin can pull a Eoin Murchan out of nowhere to essentially kill an opposition player with his athleticism, Tyrone should be looking to invest in a few project players - we badly, badly need big men into that team in the forward line or at least big men able to sit in Midfield, not saying these guys need to play every game but horses for courses - Tyrone got the penalty from the most basic of tactics (never a penalty btw). These 'samey' type players are really not what we need going forward, every game.

I thought Peter was one of the better performers on the day. Albeit I haven't watched it back on TV.

I thought the same at the game actually UNTIL I watched it back on TV.

Watching the match back it was criminal how many points Dublin scored while under no pressure. There was at least 6 or 7 points in the 2nd half where there was no tyrone player with 5 yards of the dublin scorer. Tyrone must have been out on there feet in the 2nd half as i have never seen them like that before