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Messages - Truthsayer

#1
Tyrone / Re: Tyrone County Football and Hurling
April 24, 2024, 07:46:43 AM
Quote from: Lamh Dhearg Alba on April 23, 2024, 10:51:18 PM
Quote from: Truthsayer on April 22, 2024, 03:21:20 PM
Quote from: Lamh Dhearg Alba on April 22, 2024, 02:37:54 PM
Quote from: Truthsayer on April 22, 2024, 01:04:30 PM
Quote from: Mikhailov on April 22, 2024, 12:26:49 PM
Quote from: Truthsayer on April 22, 2024, 11:45:37 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on April 22, 2024, 11:37:52 AM
Quote from: Truthsayer on April 22, 2024, 08:32:31 AM
Quote from: tyroneman on April 22, 2024, 07:22:11 AM
Quote from: Truthsayer on April 21, 2024, 11:15:44 PM
Quote from: tyroneman on April 21, 2024, 11:04:40 PMNo issue with players being blooded, transition years, need to gain experience...all that stuff....fine...

But surely you should be able to see a plan, a system, some kind of tactics beyond the basic, something to give these players a structure to develop in ...
What does that even mean? Lost their way when Hampsey went off on the black card... need to look at that. They were the much better side.

What that means is exactly what it says. It's great to see new players get brought in and given a meaningful taste of league and championship.

There is also a lot of talent there, which means we can go on scoring sprees and look fantastic for periods. All good. So the raw ingredients are there.

What is not evident is a system or structured gameplay to compete with Dublin/Kerry/Derry (and McGuiness back means Donegal are also a much diffeent prospect).

There is zero consistency in the team, from quarter to quarter, never mind game to game.

Maybe I just dont see/understand the current tactics as well as others and I would be delighted to be proved wrong.


Nah you've still lost me. Maybe I'm not up to speed with gameplans. You mention Derry, they were a shambles at the weekend. Kerry scraped past Cork. I've must have a simpler outlook. Tyrone went away from home and beat a side just beat Monaghan. Things went badly awry on the black card and need to look at why. Sitting in Breffini Park yesterday wat I saw was Tyrone were the much better team and when it was 15 v 15 Cavan wouldn't have won if we were there to next Tuesday. Next up... Donegal.
You don't think going a man down and how to cope with it is an element that the management should have dealt with in training? I would be asking serious questions about why we opened up so quickly during those 10 mins. That re-organisation lies with management imo.
Def needs reviewed: they know that. Hard to plan for every single player to get a black card, of all the ones to get one Hampsey probably be the most damaging (Mattie too). I see the glass half full not half empty: 9 players made championship debut. When it went back to 15 v 15 was never in doubt. To go to Cavan and be hauled back like that and win showed great character.
Maybe I don't have your expectations of a team in transition. Reality check: They won't be beating Kerry or Dublin no more than Derry or Donegal will...
 

a club team management would have that angle covered. A black card happens regular in games so it needs to be handled irrespective of who the player carded is.....basic stuff for all teams. Delegation, planning and proper instruction sorts that out easily

I am like yourself and try to take the positives from it (9 debutants, great first 30 minutes) but how can we let a black card derail us is concerning. The real positive was that most of them debutants were on the pitch in the crucial closing stages of ET when the game was in the melting pot.

Hard to know what to expect next week....if we deliver then we could win but it is the total inconsistency that is our problem - we don't know what is happening from one half to the next never mind one game to the next.


I think your over-cooking what managers can do. The problem wasn't so much the blackcard was that the player who got it had such a huge influence on the game up to then.
Derry on Saturday was a complete mess, a few weeks ago Harte being hailed as a genius.
We'll see what happens...I've more faith in the management than you obviously..
 

There is a limit to what management can do without doubt but setting up a team in a coherent fashion with a clear plan isn't too much to expect. We haven't had that the last two years, the team has been a disjointed mess. The management team basically got a free pass for that because of 2021 and that was fair enough. Once they decided to put themselves forward for another term the free pass expired for me and they don't get off with this team in transition line either. Yes there are lots of young players but they are very good young players with a very good experienced core already there. It shouldn't be asking too much after McKenna Cup and seven league games for something like a well tuned team to be emerging. Instead they went off the boil massively in the second-half with the total collapse after the (questionable) Hampsey black card very concerning. It was pretty obvious that Mattie (who was class) wasn't happy at all afterwards. I'm not expecting any titles this summer but we need to see some real evidence this management team are bringing a competitive new team together and building towards something much better than the shambles of the past two summers. Big few weeks ahead of them.
You're a hard taskmaster! 9 players played in their first county championship : ) That wouldn't beat Donegal but it didnt have to... they won. I wouldn't be inclined to hammer them... see how Sunday goes.


I'm not hammering them but I'm not judging the management team on Sunday but rather 2 seasons of underachieving when we looked like a team devoid of direction. Despite some fine individual performances in the league (and Sunday) I'm not sure we're making any great progress in that respect this year either. I hope to be proven wrong. As I said, not expecting any titles, just want to see real evidence that this is the correct management team to bring through an excellent group of young players (and blend it with the excellent core we already had).
We'll see how 'excellent' the group of players is. They retained Div 1 status which was good albeit hammered in a dead rubber against Dublin. Its huge transition time, apparently 16 players gone from All Ireland winning squad 3 years ago.. thats a lot of players and 9 championship debuts on Sunday... its Tyrone not Dublin or Kerry where you wheel out new top teams every few years. 
I be old school, Ulster championship win, good stuff! onto the next round. Games get analysed to death these days.
#2
Tyrone / Re: Tyrone Club Football and Hurling
April 23, 2024, 09:24:32 AM
Quote from: thebigfullforward on April 23, 2024, 08:31:12 AM
Quote from: Truthsayer on April 16, 2024, 07:56:17 AM
Quote from: Eire90 on April 16, 2024, 05:00:15 AMWas there extra time in those games or was it straight to pens.
Extra time
Maybe extra time was how its meant to be but Killyclogher Errigal went straight to pens. Teams seemed to have a discussion with the ref to avoid extra time

Maybe... Dromore bt Coalisland on penalties after extra-time.
#3
General discussion / Re: The DUP thread
April 22, 2024, 05:42:58 PM
Quote from: Orior on April 22, 2024, 05:40:40 PMFine Gael favourite, crater face Hoey having a go at Jarlath Burns and the GAA
https://x.com/catharinehoey/status/1782365465433498036?s=46

::)  Kate be in the same mould as Jamie and Jim.. I wouldn't pay much heed to her.
#4
General discussion / Re: Overused words
April 22, 2024, 05:03:19 PM
A high press...  ::)
#5
Tyrone / Re: Tyrone County Football and Hurling
April 22, 2024, 03:21:20 PM
Quote from: Lamh Dhearg Alba on April 22, 2024, 02:37:54 PM
Quote from: Truthsayer on April 22, 2024, 01:04:30 PM
Quote from: Mikhailov on April 22, 2024, 12:26:49 PM
Quote from: Truthsayer on April 22, 2024, 11:45:37 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on April 22, 2024, 11:37:52 AM
Quote from: Truthsayer on April 22, 2024, 08:32:31 AM
Quote from: tyroneman on April 22, 2024, 07:22:11 AM
Quote from: Truthsayer on April 21, 2024, 11:15:44 PM
Quote from: tyroneman on April 21, 2024, 11:04:40 PMNo issue with players being blooded, transition years, need to gain experience...all that stuff....fine...

But surely you should be able to see a plan, a system, some kind of tactics beyond the basic, something to give these players a structure to develop in ...
What does that even mean? Lost their way when Hampsey went off on the black card... need to look at that. They were the much better side.

What that means is exactly what it says. It's great to see new players get brought in and given a meaningful taste of league and championship.

There is also a lot of talent there, which means we can go on scoring sprees and look fantastic for periods. All good. So the raw ingredients are there.

What is not evident is a system or structured gameplay to compete with Dublin/Kerry/Derry (and McGuiness back means Donegal are also a much diffeent prospect).

There is zero consistency in the team, from quarter to quarter, never mind game to game.

Maybe I just dont see/understand the current tactics as well as others and I would be delighted to be proved wrong.


Nah you've still lost me. Maybe I'm not up to speed with gameplans. You mention Derry, they were a shambles at the weekend. Kerry scraped past Cork. I've must have a simpler outlook. Tyrone went away from home and beat a side just beat Monaghan. Things went badly awry on the black card and need to look at why. Sitting in Breffini Park yesterday wat I saw was Tyrone were the much better team and when it was 15 v 15 Cavan wouldn't have won if we were there to next Tuesday. Next up... Donegal.
You don't think going a man down and how to cope with it is an element that the management should have dealt with in training? I would be asking serious questions about why we opened up so quickly during those 10 mins. That re-organisation lies with management imo.
Def needs reviewed: they know that. Hard to plan for every single player to get a black card, of all the ones to get one Hampsey probably be the most damaging (Mattie too). I see the glass half full not half empty: 9 players made championship debut. When it went back to 15 v 15 was never in doubt. To go to Cavan and be hauled back like that and win showed great character.
Maybe I don't have your expectations of a team in transition. Reality check: They won't be beating Kerry or Dublin no more than Derry or Donegal will...
 

a club team management would have that angle covered. A black card happens regular in games so it needs to be handled irrespective of who the player carded is.....basic stuff for all teams. Delegation, planning and proper instruction sorts that out easily

I am like yourself and try to take the positives from it (9 debutants, great first 30 minutes) but how can we let a black card derail us is concerning. The real positive was that most of them debutants were on the pitch in the crucial closing stages of ET when the game was in the melting pot.

Hard to know what to expect next week....if we deliver then we could win but it is the total inconsistency that is our problem - we don't know what is happening from one half to the next never mind one game to the next.


I think your over-cooking what managers can do. The problem wasn't so much the blackcard was that the player who got it had such a huge influence on the game up to then.
Derry on Saturday was a complete mess, a few weeks ago Harte being hailed as a genius.
We'll see what happens...I've more faith in the management than you obviously..
 

There is a limit to what management can do without doubt but setting up a team in a coherent fashion with a clear plan isn't too much to expect. We haven't had that the last two years, the team has been a disjointed mess. The management team basically got a free pass for that because of 2021 and that was fair enough. Once they decided to put themselves forward for another term the free pass expired for me and they don't get off with this team in transition line either. Yes there are lots of young players but they are very good young players with a very good experienced core already there. It shouldn't be asking too much after McKenna Cup and seven league games for something like a well tuned team to be emerging. Instead they went off the boil massively in the second-half with the total collapse after the (questionable) Hampsey black card very concerning. It was pretty obvious that Mattie (who was class) wasn't happy at all afterwards. I'm not expecting any titles this summer but we need to see some real evidence this management team are bringing a competitive new team together and building towards something much better than the shambles of the past two summers. Big few weeks ahead of them.
You're a hard taskmaster! 9 players played in their first county championship : ) That wouldn't beat Donegal but it didnt have to... they won. I wouldn't be inclined to hammer them... see how Sunday goes.
#6
Tyrone / Re: Tyrone County Football and Hurling
April 22, 2024, 01:04:30 PM
Quote from: Mikhailov on April 22, 2024, 12:26:49 PM
Quote from: Truthsayer on April 22, 2024, 11:45:37 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on April 22, 2024, 11:37:52 AM
Quote from: Truthsayer on April 22, 2024, 08:32:31 AM
Quote from: tyroneman on April 22, 2024, 07:22:11 AM
Quote from: Truthsayer on April 21, 2024, 11:15:44 PM
Quote from: tyroneman on April 21, 2024, 11:04:40 PMNo issue with players being blooded, transition years, need to gain experience...all that stuff....fine...

But surely you should be able to see a plan, a system, some kind of tactics beyond the basic, something to give these players a structure to develop in ...
What does that even mean? Lost their way when Hampsey went off on the black card... need to look at that. They were the much better side.

What that means is exactly what it says. It's great to see new players get brought in and given a meaningful taste of league and championship.

There is also a lot of talent there, which means we can go on scoring sprees and look fantastic for periods. All good. So the raw ingredients are there.

What is not evident is a system or structured gameplay to compete with Dublin/Kerry/Derry (and McGuiness back means Donegal are also a much diffeent prospect).

There is zero consistency in the team, from quarter to quarter, never mind game to game.

Maybe I just dont see/understand the current tactics as well as others and I would be delighted to be proved wrong.


Nah you've still lost me. Maybe I'm not up to speed with gameplans. You mention Derry, they were a shambles at the weekend. Kerry scraped past Cork. I've must have a simpler outlook. Tyrone went away from home and beat a side just beat Monaghan. Things went badly awry on the black card and need to look at why. Sitting in Breffini Park yesterday wat I saw was Tyrone were the much better team and when it was 15 v 15 Cavan wouldn't have won if we were there to next Tuesday. Next up... Donegal.
You don't think going a man down and how to cope with it is an element that the management should have dealt with in training? I would be asking serious questions about why we opened up so quickly during those 10 mins. That re-organisation lies with management imo.
Def needs reviewed: they know that. Hard to plan for every single player to get a black card, of all the ones to get one Hampsey probably be the most damaging (Mattie too). I see the glass half full not half empty: 9 players made championship debut. When it went back to 15 v 15 was never in doubt. To go to Cavan and be hauled back like that and win showed great character.
Maybe I don't have your expectations of a team in transition. Reality check: They won't be beating Kerry or Dublin no more than Derry or Donegal will...
 

a club team management would have that angle covered. A black card happens regular in games so it needs to be handled irrespective of who the player carded is.....basic stuff for all teams. Delegation, planning and proper instruction sorts that out easily

I am like yourself and try to take the positives from it (9 debutants, great first 30 minutes) but how can we let a black card derail us is concerning. The real positive was that most of them debutants were on the pitch in the crucial closing stages of ET when the game was in the melting pot.

Hard to know what to expect next week....if we deliver then we could win but it is the total inconsistency that is our problem - we don't know what is happening from one half to the next never mind one game to the next.


I think your over-cooking what managers can do. The problem wasn't so much the blackcard was that the player who got it had such a huge influence on the game up to then.
Derry on Saturday was a complete mess, a few weeks ago Harte being hailed as a genius.
We'll see what happens...I've more faith in the management than you obviously..
 
#7
Quote from: yellowcard on April 22, 2024, 12:01:59 PMI think Donegal have a big advantage over Tyrone in terms of recovery. Tyrone have a days rest less and extra time in the legs, they will get little or nothing done this week apart from recover work. In any case I think they look to be a team in transition with an awful lot of young players thrown in. I think Donegal could end up winning this match comfortably and set up a repeat of the division 2 national league final. 
Agreed. The turnaround time is ridiculous. Was a time supporters could enjoy the win for a week and another week to look forward to the next round. Is a big ask of Tyrone after such a gruelling game players coming off with knocks and hardly time to sort the injuries, then prepare for next Sunday. Donegal had a handy aul run-out, tho well done to them. 
#8
General discussion / Re: Overused words
April 22, 2024, 11:59:39 AM
Mickey Harte's Derry
#9
Tyrone / Re: Tyrone County Football and Hurling
April 22, 2024, 11:45:37 AM
Quote from: trueblue1234 on April 22, 2024, 11:37:52 AM
Quote from: Truthsayer on April 22, 2024, 08:32:31 AM
Quote from: tyroneman on April 22, 2024, 07:22:11 AM
Quote from: Truthsayer on April 21, 2024, 11:15:44 PM
Quote from: tyroneman on April 21, 2024, 11:04:40 PMNo issue with players being blooded, transition years, need to gain experience...all that stuff....fine...

But surely you should be able to see a plan, a system, some kind of tactics beyond the basic, something to give these players a structure to develop in ...
What does that even mean? Lost their way when Hampsey went off on the black card... need to look at that. They were the much better side.

What that means is exactly what it says. It's great to see new players get brought in and given a meaningful taste of league and championship.

There is also a lot of talent there, which means we can go on scoring sprees and look fantastic for periods. All good. So the raw ingredients are there.

What is not evident is a system or structured gameplay to compete with Dublin/Kerry/Derry (and McGuiness back means Donegal are also a much diffeent prospect).

There is zero consistency in the team, from quarter to quarter, never mind game to game.

Maybe I just dont see/understand the current tactics as well as others and I would be delighted to be proved wrong.


Nah you've still lost me. Maybe I'm not up to speed with gameplans. You mention Derry, they were a shambles at the weekend. Kerry scraped past Cork. I've must have a simpler outlook. Tyrone went away from home and beat a side just beat Monaghan. Things went badly awry on the black card and need to look at why. Sitting in Breffini Park yesterday wat I saw was Tyrone were the much better team and when it was 15 v 15 Cavan wouldn't have won if we were there to next Tuesday. Next up... Donegal.
You don't think going a man down and how to cope with it is an element that the management should have dealt with in training? I would be asking serious questions about why we opened up so quickly during those 10 mins. That re-organisation lies with management imo.
Def needs reviewed: they know that. Hard to plan for every single player to get a black card, of all the ones to get one Hampsey probably be the most damaging (Mattie too). I see the glass half full not half empty: 9 players made championship debut. When it went back to 15 v 15 was never in doubt. To go to Cavan and be hauled back like that and win showed great character.
Maybe I don't have your expectations of a team in transition. Reality check: They won't be beating Kerry or Dublin no more than Derry or Donegal will...
 
#10
Tyrone / Re: Tyrone County Football and Hurling
April 22, 2024, 08:32:31 AM
Quote from: tyroneman on April 22, 2024, 07:22:11 AM
Quote from: Truthsayer on April 21, 2024, 11:15:44 PM
Quote from: tyroneman on April 21, 2024, 11:04:40 PMNo issue with players being blooded, transition years, need to gain experience...all that stuff....fine...

But surely you should be able to see a plan, a system, some kind of tactics beyond the basic, something to give these players a structure to develop in ...
What does that even mean? Lost their way when Hampsey went off on the black card... need to look at that. They were the much better side.

What that means is exactly what it says. It's great to see new players get brought in and given a meaningful taste of league and championship.

There is also a lot of talent there, which means we can go on scoring sprees and look fantastic for periods. All good. So the raw ingredients are there.

What is not evident is a system or structured gameplay to compete with Dublin/Kerry/Derry (and McGuiness back means Donegal are also a much diffeent prospect).

There is zero consistency in the team, from quarter to quarter, never mind game to game.

Maybe I just dont see/understand the current tactics as well as others and I would be delighted to be proved wrong.


Nah you've still lost me. Maybe I'm not up to speed with gameplans. You mention Derry, they were a shambles at the weekend. Kerry scraped past Cork. I've must have a simpler outlook. Tyrone went away from home and beat a side just beat Monaghan. Things went badly awry on the black card and need to look at why. Sitting in Breffini Park yesterday wat I saw was Tyrone were the much better team and when it was 15 v 15 Cavan wouldn't have won if we were there to next Tuesday. Next up... Donegal.
#11
Tyrone / Re: Tyrone County Football and Hurling
April 21, 2024, 11:15:44 PM
Quote from: tyroneman on April 21, 2024, 11:04:40 PMNo issue with players being blooded, transition years, need to gain experience...all that stuff....fine...

But surely you should be able to see a plan, a system, some kind of tactics beyond the basic, something to give these players a structure to develop in ...
What does that even mean? Lost their way when Hampsey went off on the black card... need to look at that. They were the much better side.
#12
Tyrone / Re: Tyrone County Football and Hurling
April 21, 2024, 10:43:07 PM
Some harsh assessments... 9 Tyrone players made championship debut today. Showed great character to dig out that result. Need to temper expectations of a team totally in transition..
#13
Tyrone / Re: Tyrone County Football and Hurling
April 21, 2024, 07:14:18 PM
Quote from: An Watcher on April 21, 2024, 07:10:37 PMI expect a division one team who are leading by 7 or 8 points to close the game out. 

They coukd be forgiven if it was a one off as some of the great teams of the past struggled against the likes of cavan, westmeath etc.  It happens.  This team have been given plenty of passes at this stage though
A lot of players not available and showed character to dig it out. Look at Div 1 league winners last nite against Div 2.. hammered... life is not so formulaic.
#14
Tyrone / Re: Tyrone County Football and Hurling
April 21, 2024, 07:02:59 PM
Quote from: An Watcher on April 21, 2024, 06:30:40 PMHow long has dooher left?  That was brutal
What was brutal about it? Making the best of what we have and dug out a win. The wheels came off with Paudies black card. Not sure wat it was for. Always begrudgers
#15
Quote from: snoopdog on April 21, 2024, 08:37:13 AM
Quote from: An Watcher on April 21, 2024, 08:21:45 AMGood scheduling today, Tyrone v Cavan and Mayo v Roscommon on at the same time??
Once the Munster Hurling basketball championship starts football takes a back seat.
'Football' more akin to basketball!