Derry Club Football & Hurling original

[Taylor]

Ok maybe a bad choice of words.  We don't send the players, its entirely their choice.  Perhaps I should have used the word 'encouraging'?  Anyhow, my original point stands.

That's why the league cups are a great compromise. Lots of games for the non county players. I've spoken to players in other counties who've gone 8 weeks with no games. They'd love the Derry system.

Speaking from your neighbouring county Lenny I can safely say it would be a massive minority who would be happy not to play competitive games for 8 weeks during the Summer.
As for loving the Derry system - I can only assume you are saying that tongue in cheek?

[braveheart]

I'm hearing news this morning that a former Ballinderry great ran On the pitch on Tuesday evening and pushed an opposition u14 player during a championship game. Shameful if true.

[Ball]

So if we went for a starred game system Slaughtneil would have went out to play certain games less 7 county hurlers and 7 county footballers, almost all of which are duel players.  Hardly a great reward for a team sending players to play for the county.  A better solution would need to be found than this.

If this thread proves anything it is you can never keep everyone happy, and Derry folk seem grumpier than most.

You have a point above, but the bit in bold is part of the problem. Stated as if the club have control of the players. Players should be free from any pressure to make up their own minds, they shouldn't need to be "sent" or released or allowed or whatever a club wants to call it.

Quote above in bold is spot on. Yes the league cup games are a sh*te, would having no games in this period be better? Or what are people's suggestions for an improvement? Would starred league games be any better?

Folks this isn't just a problem in our County, theyre club players all over Ireland sitting on their hands for weeks with no football, the county scene and super 8's (which although entertaining imo should be scrapped) are dictating the schedule.
As Billy says above them missing so many players to both hurling and football county squads would hardly be fair.

[tbrick18]

So if we went for a starred game system Slaughtneil would have went out to play certain games less 7 county hurlers and 7 county footballers, almost all of which are duel players.  Hardly a great reward for a team sending players to play for the county.  A better solution would need to be found than this.

This is a good point to be fair.
However, this is more the exception than the norm and in this case Slaughtneil are a victim of their own success. Its not very often any single club team supplies so many county players, there's rarely more than 2-3 from a club.
It's impossible to come up with a perfect solution, so I still think the starred games are the answer as they will generally mean most teams are affected the same way.
I think someone mentioned earlier, that in Tyrone for the teams who are affected by starred games the fixtures are set in such a way that they will be playing teams in a similar position. So lets say, Glen and Lavey are both down 3 county men, they are fixed to play each other so neither should have more or less of an advantage.
Again, not perfect...but it gives the clubs competitive games and the fringe players in the clubs a chance to progress too.
The biggest negative to this is the fringe county player who isn't getting county matches also missing club games. That's where the county management and club management need to work together.

[Mikhailov]

Ok maybe a bad choice of words.  We don't send the players, its entirely their choice.  Perhaps I should have used the word 'encouraging'?  Anyhow, my original point stands.

That's why the league cups are a great compromise. Lots of games for the non county players. I've spoken to players in other counties who've gone 8 weeks with no games. They'd love the Derry system.

Impossible, which county are these players from? All counties play away at their league programs except Tyrone who use the starred system. It is the only other county with some issues and are you telling me the players would rather play 4 games in the first 6 months and then cup games!!!! Catch yourself on FFS.

[lenny]

So if we went for a starred game system Slaughtneil would have went out to play certain games less 7 county hurlers and 7 county footballers, almost all of which are duel players.  Hardly a great reward for a team sending players to play for the county.  A better solution would need to be found than this.

This is a good point to be fair.
However, this is more the exception than the norm and in this case Slaughtneil are a victim of their own success. Its not very often any single club team supplies so many county players, there's rarely more than 2-3 from a club.
It's impossible to come up with a perfect solution, so I still think the starred games are the answer as they will generally mean most teams are affected the same way.
I think someone mentioned earlier, that in Tyrone for the teams who are affected by starred games the fixtures are set in such a way that they will be playing teams in a similar position. So lets say, Glen and Lavey are both down 3 county men, they are fixed to play each other so neither should have more or less of an advantage.
Again, not perfect...but it gives the clubs competitive games and the fringe players in the clubs a chance to progress too.
The biggest negative to this is the fringe county player who isn't getting county matches also missing club games. That's where the county management and club management need to work together.

Next year we're likely to have Danny, Mcevoy, clucker and Odhran Lynch on the county panel. If we have to play 5/6 league games in the middle of the season without these players it means it's unlikely we've a chance of winning the league. Slaughtneil the same. That devalues the competition and takes away from whoever wins it. At the moment not one county player misses a league game because of county commitments. Non county players continue to have games every week for the duration of county championship. That's a pretty good compromise even if it's not perfect.

[shawshank]

Ill wager Lenny never played senior football. To me that is obvious, absolutely no insight nor empathy displayed. I haven't talked to a current player who likes the current system of 4 league games, then shit meaningless football and then a cramped league again, and I mean not one

[tbrick18]

So if we went for a starred game system Slaughtneil would have went out to play certain games less 7 county hurlers and 7 county footballers, almost all of which are duel players.  Hardly a great reward for a team sending players to play for the county.  A better solution would need to be found than this.

This is a good point to be fair.
However, this is more the exception than the norm and in this case Slaughtneil are a victim of their own success. Its not very often any single club team supplies so many county players, there's rarely more than 2-3 from a club.
It's impossible to come up with a perfect solution, so I still think the starred games are the answer as they will generally mean most teams are affected the same way.
I think someone mentioned earlier, that in Tyrone for the teams who are affected by starred games the fixtures are set in such a way that they will be playing teams in a similar position. So lets say, Glen and Lavey are both down 3 county men, they are fixed to play each other so neither should have more or less of an advantage.
Again, not perfect...but it gives the clubs competitive games and the fringe players in the clubs a chance to progress too.
The biggest negative to this is the fringe county player who isn't getting county matches also missing club games. That's where the county management and club management need to work together.

Next year we're likely to have Danny, Mcevoy, clucker and Odhran Lynch on the county panel. If we have to play 5/6 league games in the middle of the season without these players it means it's unlikely we've a chance of winning the league. Slaughtneil the same. That devalues the competition and takes away from whoever wins it. At the moment not one county player misses a league game because of county commitments. Non county players continue to have games every week for the duration of county championship. That's a pretty good compromise even if it's not perfect.

Its a good compromise for who? County players are not compromising as they are playing all county and club games (although fringe players could possibly get no games).
Clubs are not compromising as they get all their county players for league games, but the fringe players in the club don't get any league games.
Club players are the ones making the compromises. They have to settle for a large section of the season playing meaningless games only to possibly lose their place when the county men come back.
It all depends on your perspective of who you are trying to please with the setup. For me, the current setup suits everyone except the non-county club players, which are in the majority.

The starred games approach, puts the club players first. Clubs still have their county players for the championship, club players get meaningful games and a chance to earn a championship place, club supporters still have meaningful games to follow during the summer months and in my opinion this approach has more advantages than disadvantages.

[lenny]

So if we went for a starred game system Slaughtneil would have went out to play certain games less 7 county hurlers and 7 county footballers, almost all of which are duel players.  Hardly a great reward for a team sending players to play for the county.  A better solution would need to be found than this.

This is a good point to be fair.
However, this is more the exception than the norm and in this case Slaughtneil are a victim of their own success. Its not very often any single club team supplies so many county players, there's rarely more than 2-3 from a club.
It's impossible to come up with a perfect solution, so I still think the starred games are the answer as they will generally mean most teams are affected the same way.
I think someone mentioned earlier, that in Tyrone for the teams who are affected by starred games the fixtures are set in such a way that they will be playing teams in a similar position. So lets say, Glen and Lavey are both down 3 county men, they are fixed to play each other so neither should have more or less of an advantage.
Again, not perfect...but it gives the clubs competitive games and the fringe players in the clubs a chance to progress too.
The biggest negative to this is the fringe county player who isn't getting county matches also missing club games. That's where the county management and club management need to work together.

Next year we're likely to have Danny, Mcevoy, clucker and Odhran Lynch on the county panel. If we have to play 5/6 league games in the middle of the season without these players it means it's unlikely we've a chance of winning the league. Slaughtneil the same. That devalues the competition and takes away from whoever wins it. At the moment not one county player misses a league game because of county commitments. Non county players continue to have games every week for the duration of county championship. That's a pretty good compromise even if it's not perfect.

Its a good compromise for who? County players are not compromising as they are playing all county and club games (although fringe players could possibly get no games).
Clubs are not compromising as they get all their county players for league games, but the fringe players in the club don't get any league games.
Club players are the ones making the compromises. They have to settle for a large section of the season playing meaningless games only to possibly lose their place when the county men come back.
It all depends on your perspective of who you are trying to please with the setup. For me, the current setup suits everyone except the non-county club players, which are in the majority.

The starred games approach, puts the club players first. Clubs still have their county players for the championship, club players get meaningful games and a chance to earn a championship place, club supporters still have meaningful games to follow during the summer months and in my opinion this approach has more advantages than disadvantages.

The players who'll lose their place when the county men come back are the same players who wouldn't have played any games if the county men were there all the time. It's these players who get the most out of the league cups. They're getting games for the first team that they normally wouldn't get.

[Taylor]

So if we went for a starred game system Slaughtneil would have went out to play certain games less 7 county hurlers and 7 county footballers, almost all of which are duel players.  Hardly a great reward for a team sending players to play for the county.  A better solution would need to be found than this.

This is a good point to be fair.
However, this is more the exception than the norm and in this case Slaughtneil are a victim of their own success. Its not very often any single club team supplies so many county players, there's rarely more than 2-3 from a club.
It's impossible to come up with a perfect solution, so I still think the starred games are the answer as they will generally mean most teams are affected the same way.
I think someone mentioned earlier, that in Tyrone for the teams who are affected by starred games the fixtures are set in such a way that they will be playing teams in a similar position. So lets say, Glen and Lavey are both down 3 county men, they are fixed to play each other so neither should have more or less of an advantage.
Again, not perfect...but it gives the clubs competitive games and the fringe players in the clubs a chance to progress too.
The biggest negative to this is the fringe county player who isn't getting county matches also missing club games. That's where the county management and club management need to work together.

Next year we're likely to have Danny, Mcevoy, clucker and Odhran Lynch on the county panel. If we have to play 5/6 league games in the middle of the season without these players it means it's unlikely we've a chance of winning the league. Slaughtneil the same. That devalues the competition and takes away from whoever wins it. At the moment not one county player misses a league game because of county commitments. Non county players continue to have games every week for the duration of county championship. That's a pretty good compromise even if it's not perfect.

Its a good compromise for who? County players are not compromising as they are playing all county and club games (although fringe players could possibly get no games).
Clubs are not compromising as they get all their county players for league games, but the fringe players in the club don't get any league games.
Club players are the ones making the compromises. They have to settle for a large section of the season playing meaningless games only to possibly lose their place when the county men come back.
It all depends on your perspective of who you are trying to please with the setup. For me, the current setup suits everyone except the non-county club players, which are in the majority.

The starred games approach, puts the club players first. Clubs still have their county players for the championship, club players get meaningful games and a chance to earn a championship place, club supporters still have meaningful games to follow during the summer months and in my opinion this approach has more advantages than disadvantages.

The players who'll lose their place when the county men come back are the same players who wouldn't have played any games if the county men were there all the time. It's these players who get the most out of the league cups. They're getting games for the first team that they normally wouldn't get.

Jaysus Lenny,
Do you have an agenda here?

It is one of the worst systems in the country.
What players from other counties would love the Derry system?
What players within the county love it bar the select few?

It is a shitshow from start to finish and it seems you deflect or act like a politician when someone makes a good point or asks a decent question

[You, Yew and Ewe]

It seems to me the players of the seven teams in the Reserve Recreational League are to be envied by the senior, intermediate, junior and reserve leagues.

Over a 16 week period from Friday 5 April to Friday 26 July they have 14 rounds of fixtures (seven home, seven away), most of the played on a Friday night and with a smile on the faces of all involved - they were playing for the joy of it.  Plus the training to match ratio is perfectly balanced

The current set up for the 61 teams in the senior, intermediate, junior and reserve leagues would seem to cater for 30 odd players on the county panel out of roughly 1,000 players in the county (61 x 15 = 915, plus a sub or two each), so for about 3% of players the league structures has been ravaged by a warped sense of fairness. 

For definite the current set up needs an overhaul.  Last season at their introduction I was all for the league cup games as a gap filler between the block of league games, but no one (players, managers or supporters) seem to take them seriously; in essence they are glorified friendlies.  Senior cup games played with barely 15 players, reserve cup games conceded routinely and next to no supporters.

#changeourleagues

[lenny]

So if we went for a starred game system Slaughtneil would have went out to play certain games less 7 county hurlers and 7 county footballers, almost all of which are duel players.  Hardly a great reward for a team sending players to play for the county.  A better solution would need to be found than this.

This is a good point to be fair.
However, this is more the exception than the norm and in this case Slaughtneil are a victim of their own success. Its not very often any single club team supplies so many county players, there's rarely more than 2-3 from a club.
It's impossible to come up with a perfect solution, so I still think the starred games are the answer as they will generally mean most teams are affected the same way.
I think someone mentioned earlier, that in Tyrone for the teams who are affected by starred games the fixtures are set in such a way that they will be playing teams in a similar position. So lets say, Glen and Lavey are both down 3 county men, they are fixed to play each other so neither should have more or less of an advantage.
Again, not perfect...but it gives the clubs competitive games and the fringe players in the clubs a chance to progress too.
The biggest negative to this is the fringe county player who isn't getting county matches also missing club games. That's where the county management and club management need to work together.

Next year we're likely to have Danny, Mcevoy, clucker and Odhran Lynch on the county panel. If we have to play 5/6 league games in the middle of the season without these players it means it's unlikely we've a chance of winning the league. Slaughtneil the same. That devalues the competition and takes away from whoever wins it. At the moment not one county player misses a league game because of county commitments. Non county players continue to have games every week for the duration of county championship. That's a pretty good compromise even if it's not perfect.

Its a good compromise for who? County players are not compromising as they are playing all county and club games (although fringe players could possibly get no games).
Clubs are not compromising as they get all their county players for league games, but the fringe players in the club don't get any league games.
Club players are the ones making the compromises. They have to settle for a large section of the season playing meaningless games only to possibly lose their place when the county men come back.
It all depends on your perspective of who you are trying to please with the setup. For me, the current setup suits everyone except the non-county club players, which are in the majority.

The starred games approach, puts the club players first. Clubs still have their county players for the championship, club players get meaningful games and a chance to earn a championship place, club supporters still have meaningful games to follow during the summer months and in my opinion this approach has more advantages than disadvantages.

The players who'll lose their place when the county men come back are the same players who wouldn't have played any games if the county men were there all the time. It's these players who get the most out of the league cups. They're getting games for the first team that they normally wouldn't get.

Jaysus Lenny,
Do you have an agenda here?

It is one of the worst systems in the country.
What players from other counties would love the Derry system?
What players within the county love it bar the select few?

It is a shitshow from start to finish and it seems you deflect or act like a politician when someone makes a good point or asks a decent question

Wtf are you talking about? Every post I've made has specifically addressed points made to me. There has been no deflection. A couple of the players I've spoken to are from Tyrone clubs. They went 7 or 8 weeks of summer weather with one league match and they're sick of it. Every year the county team go well it means very few games in the summer with absolutely no idea when the games will be fitted in. At this stage clubs in Tyrone have played 8 games, in Derry they've played 6 not a massive difference. The big difference is the club players in Derry have had another 7 or 8 games organised for them in the form of league cups.

[Mikhailov]

So if we went for a starred game system Slaughtneil would have went out to play certain games less 7 county hurlers and 7 county footballers, almost all of which are duel players.  Hardly a great reward for a team sending players to play for the county.  A better solution would need to be found than this.

This is a good point to be fair.
However, this is more the exception than the norm and in this case Slaughtneil are a victim of their own success. Its not very often any single club team supplies so many county players, there's rarely more than 2-3 from a club.
It's impossible to come up with a perfect solution, so I still think the starred games are the answer as they will generally mean most teams are affected the same way.
I think someone mentioned earlier, that in Tyrone for the teams who are affected by starred games the fixtures are set in such a way that they will be playing teams in a similar position. So lets say, Glen and Lavey are both down 3 county men, they are fixed to play each other so neither should have more or less of an advantage.
Again, not perfect...but it gives the clubs competitive games and the fringe players in the clubs a chance to progress too.
The biggest negative to this is the fringe county player who isn't getting county matches also missing club games. That's where the county management and club management need to work together.

Next year we're likely to have Danny, Mcevoy, clucker and Odhran Lynch on the county panel. If we have to play 5/6 league games in the middle of the season without these players it means it's unlikely we've a chance of winning the league. Slaughtneil the same. That devalues the competition and takes away from whoever wins it. At the moment not one county player misses a league game because of county commitments. Non county players continue to have games every week for the duration of county championship. That's a pretty good compromise even if it's not perfect.

Its a good compromise for who? County players are not compromising as they are playing all county and club games (although fringe players could possibly get no games).
Clubs are not compromising as they get all their county players for league games, but the fringe players in the club don't get any league games.
Club players are the ones making the compromises. They have to settle for a large section of the season playing meaningless games only to possibly lose their place when the county men come back.
It all depends on your perspective of who you are trying to please with the setup. For me, the current setup suits everyone except the non-county club players, which are in the majority.

The starred games approach, puts the club players first. Clubs still have their county players for the championship, club players get meaningful games and a chance to earn a championship place, club supporters still have meaningful games to follow during the summer months and in my opinion this approach has more advantages than disadvantages.

The players who'll lose their place when the county men come back are the same players who wouldn't have played any games if the county men were there all the time. It's these players who get the most out of the league cups. They're getting games for the first team that they normally wouldn't get.

Jaysus Lenny,
Do you have an agenda here?

It is one of the worst systems in the country.
What players from other counties would love the Derry system?
What players within the county love it bar the select few?

It is a shitshow from start to finish and it seems you deflect or act like a politician when someone makes a good point or asks a decent question

Wtf are you talking about? Every post I've made has specifically addressed points made to me. There has been no deflection. A couple of the players I've spoken to are from Tyrone clubs. They went 7 or 8 weeks of summer weather with one league match and they're sick of it. Every year the county team go well it means very few games in the summer with absolutely no idea when the games will be fitted in. At this stage clubs in Tyrone have played 8 games, in Derry they've played 6 not a massive difference. The big difference is the club players in Derry have had another 7 or 8 games organised for them in the form of league cups.

.

Wise up Lenny. I am a Tyrone man first of all. Of course our lads are gutted at one game in 7 weeks but under NO circumstances would they accept no game in 12 weeks and certainly not glorified cup competition in that time. All our clubs are not happy but much happier than their Derry counterparts - the Derry set up is shambolic and your senior team lost 6 weeks ago! If your county team for example qualified for the super 8's then to date this year your club players would have played 4 games so far - horrendous stuff. 4 games in 4 months! It is not easy admittedly to keep everyone happy but I can guarantee you every Tyrone player (albeit currently unhappy) would accept their system over the Derry system - 100% certain about that

[drillsergeant]

So if we went for a starred game system Slaughtneil would have went out to play certain games less 7 county hurlers and 7 county footballers, almost all of which are duel players.  Hardly a great reward for a team sending players to play for the county.  A better solution would need to be found than this.

This is a good point to be fair.
However, this is more the exception than the norm and in this case Slaughtneil are a victim of their own success. Its not very often any single club team supplies so many county players, there's rarely more than 2-3 from a club.
It's impossible to come up with a perfect solution, so I still think the starred games are the answer as they will generally mean most teams are affected the same way.
I think someone mentioned earlier, that in Tyrone for the teams who are affected by starred games the fixtures are set in such a way that they will be playing teams in a similar position. So lets say, Glen and Lavey are both down 3 county men, they are fixed to play each other so neither should have more or less of an advantage.
Again, not perfect...but it gives the clubs competitive games and the fringe players in the clubs a chance to progress too.
The biggest negative to this is the fringe county player who isn't getting county matches also missing club games. That's where the county management and club management need to work together.

Next year we're likely to have Danny, Mcevoy, clucker and Odhran Lynch on the county panel. If we have to play 5/6 league games in the middle of the season without these players it means it's unlikely we've a chance of winning the league. Slaughtneil the same. That devalues the competition and takes away from whoever wins it. At the moment not one county player misses a league game because of county commitments. Non county players continue to have games every week for the duration of county championship. That's a pretty good compromise even if it's not perfect.

Its a good compromise for who? County players are not compromising as they are playing all county and club games (although fringe players could possibly get no games).
Clubs are not compromising as they get all their county players for league games, but the fringe players in the club don't get any league games.
Club players are the ones making the compromises. They have to settle for a large section of the season playing meaningless games only to possibly lose their place when the county men come back.
It all depends on your perspective of who you are trying to please with the setup. For me, the current setup suits everyone except the non-county club players, which are in the majority.

The starred games approach, puts the club players first. Clubs still have their county players for the championship, club players get meaningful games and a chance to earn a championship place, club supporters still have meaningful games to follow during the summer months and in my opinion this approach has more advantages than disadvantages.

The players who'll lose their place when the county men come back are the same players who wouldn't have played any games if the county men were there all the time. It's these players who get the most out of the league cups. They're getting games for the first team that they normally wouldn't get.

Jaysus Lenny,
Do you have an agenda here?

It is one of the worst systems in the country.
What players from other counties would love the Derry system?
What players within the county love it bar the select few?

It is a shitshow from start to finish and it seems you deflect or act like a politician when someone makes a good point or asks a decent question

Wtf are you talking about? Every post I've made has specifically addressed points made to me. There has been no deflection. A couple of the players I've spoken to are from Tyrone clubs. They went 7 or 8 weeks of summer weather with one league match and they're sick of it. Every year the county team go well it means very few games in the summer with absolutely no idea when the games will be fitted in. At this stage clubs in Tyrone have played 8 games, in Derry they've played 6 not a massive difference. The big difference is the club players in Derry have had another 7 or 8 games organised for them in the form of league cups.

.

Wise up Lenny. I am a Tyrone man first of all. Of course our lads are gutted at one game in 7 weeks but under NO circumstances would they accept no game in 12 weeks and certainly not glorified cup competition in that time. All our clubs are not happy but much happier than their Derry counterparts - the Derry set up is shambolic and your senior team lost 6 weeks ago! If your county team for example qualified for the super 8's then to date this year your club players would have played 4 games so far - horrendous stuff. 4 games in 4 months! It is not easy admittedly to keep everyone happy but I can guarantee you every Tyrone player (albeit currently unhappy) would accept their system over the Derry system - 100% certain about that

No senior or reserve league games  in 12+ weeks is a complete joke!! If you don't play for the county the county board simply don't give to craps about you! Hopefully the clubs don't stand for this next year.

[Squareball71]

Stand for it??? The clubs will endorse it at Convention. It will be the same crew, maybe in different positions but the status quo will continue. Too many there for their own vanity and for personal ambition and have been for too long. Not for the love of County or the clubs in it.

I don't know if they still happen but there used to be "think tank" meetings at the start of the year to discuss leagues and fixtures. I was at a few but soon became apparent they were talking shops to pay lip service to the clubs and CCC did whatever they wanted. Do these meetings still continue? If so was there one this year where the clubs thought a 12 week gap in the leagues was a good idea?