gaaboard.com

Let's start the conversation. My prediction:

Armagh 0-13 Donegal 3-15

Hope I am very wrong.

Clones?

According to Bonner, McBrearty will definitely be fit.

Quote from: J70 on November 03, 2020, 12:22:12 PM
According to Bonner, McBrearty will definitely be fit.

Probably Colm McFadden as well

Head says Donegal by six.  They are on a different level.  They should have beaten Tyrone by 5 or 6 and would have only for a soft goal by Canavan.  Tyrone were completely out of that game in the second half.  They seem very well balanced, between youth and experience, forwards and attack, skillful footballers and hardy lads for made for winter football and they keep the scoreboard ticking over. Armagh on the other hand, give away too many frees (suicide in winter football), vulnerable when ran at (Langdon and Jamie Brennan will definitely do so) and are prone to going out of the game for long periods.  Neither are they as hardened as Donegal.  A massive additional factor is that Patton's kickouts really can put the opposition on the backfoot and I would expect Armagh to concede short kickouts and on that basis they will give Donegal a very strong platform for victory.  Donegal could also employ several tactics to exploit Armagh weaknesses, including dropping high balls in on top of Murphy at FF, running at the Armagh FB line and pressing up on Hughes' kickouts.   Twenty years ago, you would have given Armagh a great chance and back then the "on-the-day" was a big factor.  This isn't the case now because teams are much more tactical, fewer risks are taken and the chances of an upset are much reduced. 

However, the heart says they have a chance. The weather this time of year can be a great leveler. This is an up and coming Armagh team and their progression has been slow but hopefully sustainable.  I don't think they will fear Donegal and will see a great chance to take a scalp. It really is a free shot at one of the big guns and if this Armagh team is to step up, their midfield and forwards are capable of making a statement.  Big question is whether the defense can rise to the occasion.

APM, I don't recall Murphy in at FF at all v Tyrone. Strange that I thought. A wet day, all it takes is a flick and balls in the net. Donegal might put him in FF v Armagh but Armagh should also try Rian O'Neill or Burns in FF, as we are going to need goals to beat Donegal.

TV?

The good thing is no one will fancy Armagh and TBH i hate them being favourites anyway. Donegal are hot favourites and rightly so, Armagh have a chance as they have the fire power to hurt Donegal but will need their defence to have the game of their lives. It's possible but highly unlikely. Still trying to work out what suits Armagh regarding a bigger pitch and winter football...Looking forward to it as it's a free one for us as we'll be written off by everyone...Just raging i can't be there.

Quote from: APM on November 03, 2020, 12:58:01 PM
Head says Donegal by six.  They are on a different level.  They should have beaten Tyrone by 5 or 6 and would have only for a soft goal by Canavan.  Tyrone were completely out of that game in the second half.  They seem very well balanced, between youth and experience, forwards and attack, skillful footballers and hardy lads for made for winter football and they keep the scoreboard ticking over. Armagh on the other hand, give away too many frees (suicide in winter football), vulnerable when ran at (Langdon and Jamie Brennan will definitely do so) and are prone to going out of the game for long periods.  Neither are they as hardened as Donegal.  A massive additional factor is that Patton's kickouts really can put the opposition on the backfoot and I would expect Armagh to concede short kickouts and on that basis they will give Donegal a very strong platform for victory.  Donegal could also employ several tactics to exploit Armagh weaknesses, including dropping high balls in on top of Murphy at FF, running at the Armagh FB line and pressing up on Hughes' kickouts.   Twenty years ago, you would have given Armagh a great chance and back then the "on-the-day" was a big factor.  This isn't the case now because teams are much more tactical, fewer risks are taken and the chances of an upset are much reduced. 

However, the heart says they have a chance. The weather this time of year can be a great leveler. This is an up and coming Armagh team and their progression has been slow but hopefully sustainable.  I don't think they will fear Donegal and will see a great chance to take a scalp. It really is a free shot at one of the big guns and if this Armagh team is to step up, their midfield and forwards are capable of making a statement.  Big question is whether the defense can rise to the occasion.

I think that is all fair enough tbh.  Armagh just aren't at the Donegal level yet in my opinion.  Maybe with a years Div1 football under our belt that will change.  The Armagh defence doesn't appear to be up to it unfortunately.  They either seem to let runners through the middle for goals or foul the players in scoreable positions.  Donegal will eat that up either way.

Keeping goals out and scoring a couple ourselves would be the only hope. Perhaps, if fit, Murnin will get a few mins in that regard.

Quote from: BennyCake on November 03, 2020, 01:49:56 PM
APM, I don't recall Murphy in at FF at all v Tyrone. Strange that I thought. A wet day, all it takes is a flick and balls in the net. Donegal might put him in FF v Armagh but Armagh should also try Rian O'Neill or Burns in FF, as we are going to need goals to beat Donegal.

And Patton has had a couple of slip-ups in both county and club this year with high balls.

Quote from: Orior on November 03, 2020, 12:10:29 PM
Let's start the conversation. My prediction:

Armagh 0-13 Donegal 3-15

Hope I am very wrong.

I think it will be a bit closer but I can't see Armagh getting any closer than 6 points to a Donegal team that will go on to win another Ulster title and give Dublin a good rattle in the All-Ireland semi finals.

Armagh 0-15 Donegal 1-18

i think we will put it up to them.
Armagh 1-11 Donegal 2-12, genuinely wouldn`t be surprised if we won, but Donegal better equipped to give Dublin/kerry a rattle.

Our best bet is that Donegal treat this as a forgone conclusion and don't turn up until 10 mins to go.

Quote from: naka on November 03, 2020, 03:38:54 PM
i think we will put it up to them.
Armagh 1-11 Donegal 2-12, genuinely wouldn`t be surprised if we won, but Donegal better equipped to give Dublin/kerry a rattle.

There was this game and Donegal went on to beat Dublin comfortably in the next match but a lot of water has gone under the bridge since then.


www.the42.ie/donegal-armagh-all-ireland-quarter-final-2014-1612019-Aug2014/%3famp=1

Quote from: Armagh18 on November 03, 2020, 01:50:48 PM
TV?

Sky (or NowTV by Internet)

Donegal winning by 6 seems like a reasonable prediction. Armagh should try and keep the gap to more like 3 and then you always have a punchers chance of goal from a deflection or a penalty.

Clash of the titans

Going by the games at the weekend Armagh will be lucky to get within 6 points of Donegal.

Who on that team would be fit to mark Murphy?

And that is even before you look at McHugh.

If McBrearty is fit it could be a bloodbath  ;D

I don't see us getting within 6. I'd say Donegal by 7/8. Hope we go out and give it a good go instead of trying to be defensive. We have plenty Tod firepower to give Donegal food for thought but I can't see our defence holding out. Even without McBrearty

Oisin is confident that Armagh will play better than they did v Derry.

Never mind Mc Brearty!  Who is fit to mark Farah? Find of the year but no surprise to Tir Connail folk who have been just waiting on his arrival. What a player.

Armagh will probably need to pull out their best championship result in 15 years to beat Donegal. That's the magnitude of the task facing them. Their scoring power gives them a puncher's chance, but if Donegal are properly focussed they'll ease home.

Armagh just give away too many cheap scores to reliably challenge the top teams. And they especially give away frees. Averaging almost 9 points conceded from frees in their three matches since football resumed - and that was against division 2 and 3 opposition. This has been a very long standing problem and will not be adequately resolved before Saturday week.

If they are to upset the odds Armagh will probably need to score a couple of goals; they'll need to keep Donegal out at the other end; they'll need Donegal's free takers to fall apart on the day; and they'll need their discipline to be immaculate - no cheap, petulant cards for Jamie Clarke or Rian O'Neill. One or two of those things might happen, but it's difficult to see them all coming together.

Jaysus I'm reading this thread not knowing if the Armagh boys are taking a hand or whether you are actually writing yourselves off that badly! Clearly we'll be favourites however from the posts here you'd swear that this was a forgone conclusion. I still remember 2014 - we were lucky to come out of that game with a win (great point from Paddy McB to seal it).

Quote from: StephenC on November 04, 2020, 08:21:59 AM
Jaysus I'm reading this thread not knowing if the Armagh boys are taking a hand or whether you are actually writing yourselves off that badly! Clearly we'll be favourites however from the posts here you'd swear that this was a forgone conclusion. I still remember 2014 - we were lucky to come out of that game with a win (great point from Paddy McB to seal it).

Based on the two games last Sunday, it definitely looks like a foregone conclusion, as Donegal are on a different level.  However, it's November, it's Championship, everything is a bonus at this stage so bring it on.

I think people in Armagh think thry can play better, but fear that they won't do so for 70 minutes and that won't be enough.

Quote from: StephenC on November 04, 2020, 08:21:59 AM
Jaysus I'm reading this thread not knowing if the Armagh boys are taking a hand or whether you are actually writing yourselves off that badly! Clearly we'll be favourites however from the posts here you'd swear that this was a forgone conclusion. I still remember 2014 - we were lucky to come out of that game with a win (great point from Paddy McB to seal it).

And I still remember 2015. That said the league game last year was a tight affair. However, I genuinely expect Donegal to win easing up. Hope I'm wrong

I think most Armagh people myself included here are writing Armagh off but deep down we know there is always a big game in us and if it happens next weekend we could beat Donegal. If i'm being 100% honest Donegal are probably 5-6pt better team than Armagh but it's on the day and anything can happen. I do think Donegal will win but it could be a lot closer than most of us think...and you just never know.
Armagh def have the forward line and the midfield at best can break even, we all know that our defence can be a bit suspect and do give away a lot of free's but you know what...this time of year on the soft ground it will def suit the defenders a lot more and you just don't know. I'm looking forward to it anyway no matter what happens...

Quote from: illdecide on November 04, 2020, 10:55:30 AM
I think most Armagh people myself included here are writing Armagh off but deep down we know there is always a big game in us and if it happens next weekend we could beat Donegal. If i'm being 100% honest Donegal are probably 5-6pt better team than Armagh but it's on the day and anything can happen. I do think Donegal will win but it could be a lot closer than most of us think...and you just never know.
Armagh def have the forward line and the midfield at best can break even, we all know that our defence can be a bit suspect and do give away a lot of free's but you know what...this time of year on the soft ground it will def suit the defenders a lot more and you just don't know. I'm looking forward to it anyway no matter what happens...

Hasn't really suited Armagh's defenders so far in the last month.

From frees:
2-4 v Roscommon
0-7 v Clare
0-9 v Derry

Donegal have a much better forward line than any of those counties. There's always an angle for optimism, but I just can't see how Armagh keep the free count low enough to be competitive against a team like Donegal.

You could make a case for Armagh being better 8-15 than Tyrone but they just don't have the players to blot out Donegal's attackers.

We outscored Derry by 2. Even with Rian scoring high I doubt we'll outscore Donegal with points. We'll need at least 3 goals. We seen how Canavans goal came about. If it's a heavy pitch/wet ball, mistakes can be made. We need to keep the ball in Donegal's half as much as possible. No pissing about on the ball. Long direct kick passing is the way to go. Big man at FF and let's go for it.

Armagh struggled for long periods in the 2nd half against Derry, a team that narrowly missed out on promotion to Div2.
Derry had a very young inexperienced side and could have won. Armagh deserved it in the end, but by no means did they look like they had much more to offer.
Donegal on the other hand, Murphy and Mchugh were quiet by their standards and I'd expect them to play better the next time around. Add McBrearty in and the fact that they never looked like they were in any real danger against Tyrone and I think we could be looking at a heavy defeat for Armagh.
Mentioned already, Armagh concede a lot of frees and look particularly vulnerable when being ran at. I'd expect Donegal to run at them and especially if McBrearty is fit there'll be some long high balls in which could result in goals.
Jamie Clarke looked very dangerous, but will he and Grugan score more than Donegal? Its hard to see.

Donegal by 10+ but would be nice to see an underdog come through.

It is still weird to me to see Armagh labelled as underdogs against us! :)

Quote from: J70 on November 04, 2020, 12:52:08 PM
It is still weird to me to see Armagh labelled as underdogs against us! :)

Ha...funny i was discussing that this morning with my old Tyronie friend here in work saying the beatings we gave Donegal in the noughties was unreal then after 2008-2009 era you boys took over and gave us a few handy beatings...Hopefully the tables will turn again back in our favour

Quote from: Ed Ricketts on November 03, 2020, 08:59:50 PM
Armagh will probably need to pull out their best championship result in 15 years to beat Donegal. That's the magnitude of the task facing them. Their scoring power gives them a puncher's chance, but if Donegal are properly focussed they'll ease home.

Armagh just give away too many cheap scores to reliably challenge the top teams. And they especially give away frees. Averaging almost 9 points conceded from frees in their three matches since football resumed - and that was against division 2 and 3 opposition. This has been a very long standing problem and will not be adequately resolved before Saturday week.

If they are to upset the odds Armagh will probably need to score a couple of goals; they'll need to keep Donegal out at the other end; they'll need Donegal's free takers to fall apart on the day; and they'll need their discipline to be immaculate - no cheap, petulant cards for Jamie Clarke or Rian O'Neill. One or two of those things might happen, but it's difficult to see them all coming together.

Six years I'd reckon https://www.rte.ie/sport/football/2014/0713/630477-tyrone-v-armagh/

Quote from: Blowitupref on November 04, 2020, 04:46:06 PM

Quote from: Ed Ricketts on November 03, 2020, 08:59:50 PM
Armagh will probably need to pull out their best championship result in 15 years to beat Donegal. That's the magnitude of the task facing them. Their scoring power gives them a puncher's chance, but if Donegal are properly focussed they'll ease home.

Armagh just give away too many cheap scores to reliably challenge the top teams. And they especially give away frees. Averaging almost 9 points conceded from frees in their three matches since football resumed - and that was against division 2 and 3 opposition. This has been a very long standing problem and will not be adequately resolved before Saturday week.

If they are to upset the odds Armagh will probably need to score a couple of goals; they'll need to keep Donegal out at the other end; they'll need Donegal's free takers to fall apart on the day; and they'll need their discipline to be immaculate - no cheap, petulant cards for Jamie Clarke or Rian O'Neill. One or two of those things might happen, but it's difficult to see them all coming together.

Six years I'd reckon https://www.rte.ie/sport/football/2014/0713/630477-tyrone-v-armagh/

Tyrone were a bit of a rabble in 2014.

Quote from: Angelo on November 04, 2020, 06:21:44 PM

Quote from: Blowitupref on November 04, 2020, 04:46:06 PM

Quote from: Ed Ricketts on November 03, 2020, 08:59:50 PM
Armagh will probably need to pull out their best championship result in 15 years to beat Donegal. That's the magnitude of the task facing them. Their scoring power gives them a puncher's chance, but if Donegal are properly focussed they'll ease home.

Armagh just give away too many cheap scores to reliably challenge the top teams. And they especially give away frees. Averaging almost 9 points conceded from frees in their three matches since football resumed - and that was against division 2 and 3 opposition. This has been a very long standing problem and will not be adequately resolved before Saturday week.

If they are to upset the odds Armagh will probably need to score a couple of goals; they'll need to keep Donegal out at the other end; they'll need Donegal's free takers to fall apart on the day; and they'll need their discipline to be immaculate - no cheap, petulant cards for Jamie Clarke or Rian O'Neill. One or two of those things might happen, but it's difficult to see them all coming together.

Six years I'd reckon https://www.rte.ie/sport/football/2014/0713/630477-tyrone-v-armagh/

Tyrone were a bit of a rabble in 2014.

Tyrone are a bit of a rabble right now.

Tyrone weren't lucky to avoid relegation to Division 2 in 2014.

Quote from: Captain Obvious on November 04, 2020, 08:38:01 PM

Quote from: Angelo on November 04, 2020, 06:21:44 PM

Quote from: Blowitupref on November 04, 2020, 04:46:06 PM

Quote from: Ed Ricketts on November 03, 2020, 08:59:50 PM
Armagh will probably need to pull out their best championship result in 15 years to beat Donegal. That's the magnitude of the task facing them. Their scoring power gives them a puncher's chance, but if Donegal are properly focussed they'll ease home.

Armagh just give away too many cheap scores to reliably challenge the top teams. And they especially give away frees. Averaging almost 9 points conceded from frees in their three matches since football resumed - and that was against division 2 and 3 opposition. This has been a very long standing problem and will not be adequately resolved before Saturday week.

If they are to upset the odds Armagh will probably need to score a couple of goals; they'll need to keep Donegal out at the other end; they'll need Donegal's free takers to fall apart on the day; and they'll need their discipline to be immaculate - no cheap, petulant cards for Jamie Clarke or Rian O'Neill. One or two of those things might happen, but it's difficult to see them all coming together.

Six years I'd reckon https://www.rte.ie/sport/football/2014/0713/630477-tyrone-v-armagh/

Tyrone were a bit of a rabble in 2014.

Tyrone are a bit of a rabble right now.

Tyrone weren't lucky to avoid relegation to Division 2 in 2014.

But they were relegated a lock of months after that fixture - Angelo is right (!), the 18 months or so around that fixture was as bad as Tyrone have been in the last twenty years.

Donegal are clearly much closer to the top this year than Tyrone were in 2014. There's also the fact that this game is a provincial semi-final, while the 2014 game was just a round 2 qualifier.

There's absolutely no doubt that a win for Armagh on Saturday week would be their most significant since the Ulster final replay of 2005. It would be the first time since then that they have beaten a genuine big gun.

Quote from: Ed Ricketts on November 04, 2020, 09:32:00 PM

Quote from: Captain Obvious on November 04, 2020, 08:38:01 PM

Quote from: Angelo on November 04, 2020, 06:21:44 PM

Quote from: Blowitupref on November 04, 2020, 04:46:06 PM

Quote from: Ed Ricketts on November 03, 2020, 08:59:50 PM
Armagh will probably need to pull out their best championship result in 15 years to beat Donegal. That's the magnitude of the task facing them. Their scoring power gives them a puncher's chance, but if Donegal are properly focussed they'll ease home.

Armagh just give away too many cheap scores to reliably challenge the top teams. And they especially give away frees. Averaging almost 9 points conceded from frees in their three matches since football resumed - and that was against division 2 and 3 opposition. This has been a very long standing problem and will not be adequately resolved before Saturday week.

If they are to upset the odds Armagh will probably need to score a couple of goals; they'll need to keep Donegal out at the other end; they'll need Donegal's free takers to fall apart on the day; and they'll need their discipline to be immaculate - no cheap, petulant cards for Jamie Clarke or Rian O'Neill. One or two of those things might happen, but it's difficult to see them all coming together.

Six years I'd reckon https://www.rte.ie/sport/football/2014/0713/630477-tyrone-v-armagh/

Tyrone were a bit of a rabble in 2014.

Tyrone are a bit of a rabble right now.

Tyrone weren't lucky to avoid relegation to Division 2 in 2014.

But they were relegated a lock of months after that fixture - Angelo is right (!), the 18 months or so around that fixture was as bad as Tyrone have been in the last twenty years.

Donegal are clearly much closer to the top this year than Tyrone were in 2014. There's also the fact that this game is a provincial semi-final, while the 2014 game was just a round 2 qualifier.

There's absolutely no doubt that a win for Armagh on Saturday week would be their most significant since the Ulster final replay of 2005. It would be the first time since then that they have beaten a genuine big gun.

2013 and 2015 Tyrone was All Ireland semi finalists. If Donegal go on to win this Ulster title it will be their first All-Ireland semi final since 2014.

Quote from: J70 on November 04, 2020, 12:52:08 PM
It is still weird to me to see Armagh labelled as underdogs against us! :)

For a long time Donegal underperformed against Armagh, except perhaps for the high ball leading to the goal in 2007. When we beat you well in 2010 in Cross' you had many of the personnel that won Sam two years later.

Quote from: armaghniac on November 04, 2020, 10:07:54 PM

Quote from: J70 on November 04, 2020, 12:52:08 PM
It is still weird to me to see Armagh labelled as underdogs against us! :)

For a long time Donegal underperformed against Armagh, except perhaps for the high ball leading to the goal in 2007. When we beat you well in 2010 in Cross' you had many of the personnel that won Sam two years later.

2007 was a weird game. You kept us at arms length for quite a while, but never put us away, and then got sucker punched right at the end.

And we proceeded to lose the run of ourselves after finally beating you, on top of winning the league, and promptly got hammered by Tyrone.

Armagh just don't have the ponies to control the Donegal attack. We do have enough up front to hurt them but We need to defend from the front and keep the ball in their half for most of the game to stand a chance.

Armagh are the great pretenders under McGeeney. They show some promise but then just as expectation starts to build they let themselves down a bag full. Their performance against half a Rosscommon team was case in point.

I'd love to see them beating Donegal but there isn't a cats chance in hell of it.

I still think Armagh are far from the finished article. Defensively we are lacking. I don't mind giving away fouls (in principle) given the time of year and the conditions that come with it. It's inevitable. It's the silly, unnecessary, dopey and cynical fouls that really need worked on.

Attacking wise decent enough. A few men have really stepped up to the plate and so far can't really ask much more of the forwards. Id like to see murnin thrown in at ff if in away fit as he can cause havoc close to goal.

Quote from: Captain Obvious on November 04, 2020, 08:38:01 PM

Quote from: Angelo on November 04, 2020, 06:21:44 PM

Quote from: Blowitupref on November 04, 2020, 04:46:06 PM

Quote from: Ed Ricketts on November 03, 2020, 08:59:50 PM
Armagh will probably need to pull out their best championship result in 15 years to beat Donegal. That's the magnitude of the task facing them. Their scoring power gives them a puncher's chance, but if Donegal are properly focussed they'll ease home.

Armagh just give away too many cheap scores to reliably challenge the top teams. And they especially give away frees. Averaging almost 9 points conceded from frees in their three matches since football resumed - and that was against division 2 and 3 opposition. This has been a very long standing problem and will not be adequately resolved before Saturday week.

If they are to upset the odds Armagh will probably need to score a couple of goals; they'll need to keep Donegal out at the other end; they'll need Donegal's free takers to fall apart on the day; and they'll need their discipline to be immaculate - no cheap, petulant cards for Jamie Clarke or Rian O'Neill. One or two of those things might happen, but it's difficult to see them all coming together.

Six years I'd reckon https://www.rte.ie/sport/football/2014/0713/630477-tyrone-v-armagh/

Tyrone were a bit of a rabble in 2014.

Tyrone are a bit of a rabble right now.

Tyrone weren't lucky to avoid relegation to Division 2 in 2014.

Are they?

I can remember the league game down in Killarney and Tralee in 2014 where JOD scored a hat trick. Tierney was left on him all game wide open and we were destroyed.

We came back next year with an ultra defensive strategy and started to make huge progress again, we made an AI SF in 2015 and probably should have beaten Kerry, we then won the next two Ulsters the following year.

We're in a much better state right now than 2014, we probably should have beaten Donegal at the weekend, we had more than enough chances to.

Quote from: Angelo on November 05, 2020, 03:17:21 PM

Quote from: Captain Obvious on November 04, 2020, 08:38:01 PM

Quote from: Angelo on November 04, 2020, 06:21:44 PM

Quote from: Blowitupref on November 04, 2020, 04:46:06 PM

Quote from: Ed Ricketts on November 03, 2020, 08:59:50 PM
Armagh will probably need to pull out their best championship result in 15 years to beat Donegal. That's the magnitude of the task facing them. Their scoring power gives them a puncher's chance, but if Donegal are properly focussed they'll ease home.

Armagh just give away too many cheap scores to reliably challenge the top teams. And they especially give away frees. Averaging almost 9 points conceded from frees in their three matches since football resumed - and that was against division 2 and 3 opposition. This has been a very long standing problem and will not be adequately resolved before Saturday week.

If they are to upset the odds Armagh will probably need to score a couple of goals; they'll need to keep Donegal out at the other end; they'll need Donegal's free takers to fall apart on the day; and they'll need their discipline to be immaculate - no cheap, petulant cards for Jamie Clarke or Rian O'Neill. One or two of those things might happen, but it's difficult to see them all coming together.

Six years I'd reckon https://www.rte.ie/sport/football/2014/0713/630477-tyrone-v-armagh/

Tyrone were a bit of a rabble in 2014.

Tyrone are a bit of a rabble right now.

Tyrone weren't lucky to avoid relegation to Division 2 in 2014.

Are they?

I can remember the league game down in Killarney and Tralee in 2014 where JOD scored a hat trick. Tierney was left on him all game wide open and we were destroyed.

We came back next year with an ultra defensive strategy and started to make huge progress again, we made an AI SF in 2015 and probably should have beaten Kerry, we then won the next two Ulsters the following year.

We're in a much better state right now than 2014, we probably should have beaten Donegal at the weekend, we had more than enough chances to.

Yes they are and if talking about an individual league game then Tyrone had none worse than this year against Galway where they lost by 19 points and conceded 2-25.

Last Sunday in a game Donegal gifted a goal to Tyrone fully deserved their win on Sunday, on a better day weather wise would have won by a bit more to spare.

Plenty of soul searching for Tyrone over these winter months. Will Mickey stay or go? You'll need to come back next year with an ultra defensive strategy again as they way you lot defended this year was no better than Armagh.

Quote from: Captain Obvious on November 05, 2020, 03:41:37 PM

Quote from: Angelo on November 05, 2020, 03:17:21 PM

Quote from: Captain Obvious on November 04, 2020, 08:38:01 PM

Quote from: Angelo on November 04, 2020, 06:21:44 PM

Quote from: Blowitupref on November 04, 2020, 04:46:06 PM

Quote from: Ed Ricketts on November 03, 2020, 08:59:50 PM
Armagh will probably need to pull out their best championship result in 15 years to beat Donegal. That's the magnitude of the task facing them. Their scoring power gives them a puncher's chance, but if Donegal are properly focussed they'll ease home.

Armagh just give away too many cheap scores to reliably challenge the top teams. And they especially give away frees. Averaging almost 9 points conceded from frees in their three matches since football resumed - and that was against division 2 and 3 opposition. This has been a very long standing problem and will not be adequately resolved before Saturday week.

If they are to upset the odds Armagh will probably need to score a couple of goals; they'll need to keep Donegal out at the other end; they'll need Donegal's free takers to fall apart on the day; and they'll need their discipline to be immaculate - no cheap, petulant cards for Jamie Clarke or Rian O'Neill. One or two of those things might happen, but it's difficult to see them all coming together.

Six years I'd reckon https://www.rte.ie/sport/football/2014/0713/630477-tyrone-v-armagh/

Tyrone were a bit of a rabble in 2014.

Tyrone are a bit of a rabble right now.

Tyrone weren't lucky to avoid relegation to Division 2 in 2014.

Are they?

I can remember the league game down in Killarney and Tralee in 2014 where JOD scored a hat trick. Tierney was left on him all game wide open and we were destroyed.

We came back next year with an ultra defensive strategy and started to make huge progress again, we made an AI SF in 2015 and probably should have beaten Kerry, we then won the next two Ulsters the following year.

We're in a much better state right now than 2014, we probably should have beaten Donegal at the weekend, we had more than enough chances to.

Yes they are and if talking about an individual league game then Tyrone had none worse than this year against Galway where they lost by 19 points and conceded 2-25.

Last Sunday in a game Donegal gifted a goal to Tyrone fully deserved their win on Sunday, on a better day weather wise would have won by a bit more to spare.

Plenty of soul searching for Tyrone over these winter months. Will Mickey stay or go? You'll need to come back next year with an ultra defensive strategy again as they way you lot defended this year was no better than Armagh.

Galway is completely different. We were done to 13 men, the game was a close affair until McGeary got a ridiculous red card in the first half, we had McShane break his ankle at the start of the second, Burns follow with another red card in the second half too.

It was just one of those days. There's no way the Tyrone team of 2014 would have been able to put it up to Donegal like we did last weekend. Tyrone probably should have won that game last week minus last year's top scorer and a number of other key players.

In 2014 we were a team without an identity - Gormley, O'Neill, Penrose all packed it in after that. Guys like Mark Donnelly, Ciaran McGinley, Ryan McKenna, Emmett McKenna, PJ Quinn never played another game for Tyrone again. The squad was completely turned upside down in terms of both personnel and identity after the defeat to Armagh in 2014.

Captain, had that last ball in been flicked to the net, Tyrone would have won by a point. It doesn't matter if Donegal deserved it or not, you have to make it count on the score board.

Donegal are better than Armagh, and will probably have the most chances and possession. But that don't mean we can't win it. The better team doesn't always win.

Quote from: BennyCake on November 05, 2020, 04:13:15 PM
Captain, had that last ball in been flicked to the net, Tyrone would have won by a point. It doesn't matter if Donegal deserved it or not, you have to make it count on the score board.

Donegal are better than Armagh, and will probably have the most chances and possession. But that don't mean we can't win it. The better team doesn't always win.

::)

Nobody said Donegal didn't deserve it but Tyrone had ample opportunities to win that game. It was a close fought encounter which could have gone either way but Donegal made the best use of their chances and in the semi final on merit.

Quote from: Angelo on November 05, 2020, 04:26:53 PM

Quote from: BennyCake on November 05, 2020, 04:13:15 PM
Captain, had that last ball in been flicked to the net, Tyrone would have won by a point. It doesn't matter if Donegal deserved it or not, you have to make it count on the score board.

Donegal are better than Armagh, and will probably have the most chances and possession. But that don't mean we can't win it. The better team doesn't always win.

::)

Nobody said Donegal didn't deserve it but Tyrone had ample opportunities to win that game. It was a close fought encounter which could have gone either way but Donegal made the best use of their chances and in the semi final on merit.

Sure that's what I said, more or less

Could the Tyrone wans feck off please, your season is over so stop annoying us.

Quote from: illdecide on November 06, 2020, 12:01:04 PM
Could the Tyrone wans feck off please, your season is over so stop annoying us.

Your season will be over after next weekend as well.

We arent going to tell you to feck off from the thread then

Quote from: Taylor on November 06, 2020, 12:45:42 PM

Quote from: illdecide on November 06, 2020, 12:01:04 PM
Could the Tyrone wans feck off please, your season is over so stop annoying us.

Your season will be over after next weekend as well.

We arent going to tell you to feck off from the thread then

I know, was a tongue in cheek comment...lol. Of course you Tyrone men are more than welcome here, Jasus even have to talk to a Augher Clougher man all fecking day here in work

I would be worried that if Armagh win, they'll have shot their load  and go on and lose to Cavan, whereas Donegal are a proven bet to put Cavan back where they belong, the backwoods of the Blackhills.  ---    i.e. should cavan get to the final.

Quote from: Taylor on November 06, 2020, 12:45:42 PM

Quote from: illdecide on November 06, 2020, 12:01:04 PM
Could the Tyrone wans feck off please, your season is over so stop annoying us.

Your season will be over after next weekend as well.

We arent going to tell you to feck off from the thread then

Admit it, you want to see us win next week. Sure what would you do until 2021 if we lost? ;)

Quote from: Main Street on November 06, 2020, 02:23:50 PM
I would be worried that if Armagh win, they'll have shot their load  and go on and lose to Cavan, whereas Donegal are a proven bet to put Cavan back where they belong, the backwoods of the Blackhills.  ---    i.e. should cavan get to the final.

Here Main Street, there's no shame in losing to Cavan...

Quote from: BennyCake on November 06, 2020, 02:54:51 PM

Quote from: Taylor on November 06, 2020, 12:45:42 PM

Quote from: illdecide on November 06, 2020, 12:01:04 PM
Could the Tyrone wans feck off please, your season is over so stop annoying us.

Your season will be over after next weekend as well.

We arent going to tell you to feck off from the thread then

Admit it, you want to see us win next week. Sure what would you do until 2021 if we lost? ;)

It wouldnt bother me too much but yous will be lucky to get within 6 with that defence of yours.

2021 will be a year to forget when yous are up with the big boys.
Will struggle to win a game  ;)

Quote from: Taylor on November 06, 2020, 03:12:26 PM

Quote from: BennyCake on November 06, 2020, 02:54:51 PM

Quote from: Taylor on November 06, 2020, 12:45:42 PM

Quote from: illdecide on November 06, 2020, 12:01:04 PM
Could the Tyrone wans feck off please, your season is over so stop annoying us.

Your season will be over after next weekend as well.

We arent going to tell you to feck off from the thread then

Admit it, you want to see us win next week. Sure what would you do until 2021 if we lost? ;)

It wouldnt bother me too much but yous will be lucky to get within 6 with that defence of yours.

2021 will be a year to forget when yous are up with the big boys.
Will struggle to win a game  ;)

Ah yes, someone using Donald Trump as the model of how to behave as a loser.

Quote from: armaghniac on November 06, 2020, 03:15:10 PM

Quote from: Taylor on November 06, 2020, 03:12:26 PM

Quote from: BennyCake on November 06, 2020, 02:54:51 PM

Quote from: Taylor on November 06, 2020, 12:45:42 PM

Quote from: illdecide on November 06, 2020, 12:01:04 PM
Could the Tyrone wans feck off please, your season is over so stop annoying us.

Your season will be over after next weekend as well.

We arent going to tell you to feck off from the thread then

Admit it, you want to see us win next week. Sure what would you do until 2021 if we lost? ;)

It wouldnt bother me too much but yous will be lucky to get within 6 with that defence of yours.

2021 will be a year to forget when yous are up with the big boys.
Will struggle to win a game  ;)

Ah yes, someone using Donald Trump as the model of how to behave as a loser.

;D ;D ;D

Just being a realist armaghniac

Quote from: Taylor on November 06, 2020, 03:12:26 PM

Quote from: BennyCake on November 06, 2020, 02:54:51 PM

Quote from: Taylor on November 06, 2020, 12:45:42 PM

Quote from: illdecide on November 06, 2020, 12:01:04 PM
Could the Tyrone wans feck off please, your season is over so stop annoying us.

Your season will be over after next weekend as well.

We arent going to tell you to feck off from the thread then

Admit it, you want to see us win next week. Sure what would you do until 2021 if we lost? ;)

It wouldnt bother me too much but yous will be lucky to get within 6 with that defence of yours.

2021 will be a year to forget when yous are up with the big boys.
Will struggle to win a game  ;)

We'll see ;)

Have a feeling Armagh will take it

Now, that's a possibility that I can live with.

See the game down fir Sky TV Saturday lunchtime. Any venues yet? Maybe they're waiting to see if a shower of rain is forecasted before considering Omagh?

Quote from: bennydorano on November 08, 2020, 01:06:42 PM
See the game down fir Sky TV Saturday lunchtime. Any venues yet? Maybe they're waiting to see if a shower of rain is forecasted before considering Omagh?

Forecast at present is for a fairly wet Friday and showers on Saturday, so it is an issue.

Quote from: bennydorano on November 08, 2020, 01:06:42 PM
See the game down fir Sky TV Saturday lunchtime. Any venues yet? Maybe they're waiting to see if a shower of rain is forecasted before considering Omagh?

Kingspan Breffni Pk...13:15 throw in and on SKY Sports mix

Here lads was just wondering...Is Ethan Rafferty not with Armagh anymore. Never hear him mentioned anymore? Was thinking of a big lad for full forward for last 10 mins against Donegal and his name popped into my head but haven't heard him mentioned this long time

Have a feeling Armagh might take Donegal, do'nt have any evidence just a gut feeling

Quote from: illdecide on November 08, 2020, 10:05:42 PM
Here lads was just wondering...Is Ethan Rafferty not with Armagh anymore. Never hear him mentioned anymore? Was thinking of a big lad for full forward for last 10 mins against Donegal and his name popped into my head but haven't heard him mentioned this long time

He was mentioned in the Gaelic Life article 2 weeks ago as being available for selection for the Derry game after returning from injury.  Didn't get a run out though.

Quote from: gortnaleck on November 09, 2020, 03:28:29 AM
Have a feeling Armagh might take Donegal, do'nt have any evidence just a gut feeling

Thanks for sharing

Quote from: gortnaleck on November 09, 2020, 03:28:29 AM
Have a feeling Armagh might take Donegal, do'nt have any evidence just a gut feeling

If beating Tyrone was Donegal's All-Ireland final then yes Armagh might do it. They certainly have the players to trouble Donegal.

The munster final yesterday showed us  it's knockout so anything is possible. Too many people writing Armagh off. Yes Donegal would be a better team but look at the time of year and it is a one off match. They're not favourites but have a decent chance.

Quote from: imtommygunn on November 09, 2020, 09:47:08 AM
The munster final yesterday showed us  it's knockout so anything is possible. Too many people writing Armagh off. Yes Donegal would be a better team but look at the time of year and it is a one off match. They're not favourites but have a decent chance.

But the Kerry result and to a lesser extent Cavan's difficulties with Antrim will only emphasise to Donegal not to be complacent, thereby reducing the prospect of a shock.

The cork result has indeed blown the lid off the preconception that the script is going to go to plan in all 4 provinces.   

Armagh are on the way up, and Donegal are playing great football, so it has the makings of a good match.  The weather, and heavy pitches should suit Armagh as it did the last day, no nice bouncing balls into the Donegal forward line. 

I still maintain if Murphy plays on the edge of the square, Armagh's goose is cooked. 

Unsure of what is going on with Rafferty, I was told he was playing good football for his club team all year, but he would play in midfield/forward line, which Armagh seem to have a nice balance and is settled.  It would be nothing more than a substitute role for him until the year is done. 

Quote from: armaghniac on November 09, 2020, 01:40:53 PM

Quote from: imtommygunn on November 09, 2020, 09:47:08 AM
The munster final yesterday showed us  it's knockout so anything is possible. Too many people writing Armagh off. Yes Donegal would be a better team but look at the time of year and it is a one off match. They're not favourites but have a decent chance.

But the Kerry result and to a lesser extent Cavan's difficulties with Antrim will only emphasise to Donegal not to be complacent, thereby reducing the prospect of a shock.

Armagh are probably closer to donegal than cork are to kerry I'd have thought.

Also conditions play a massive role in these things. Who knows what the conditions will be like or who'll adapt better.

I'd be keener to see Murnin get a run out in FF before Rafferty tbh, any word on him?

 Langer inspired?    but the cup doth overflow with an abundance of  optimism for Armagh's chances.

Quote from: bennydorano on November 09, 2020, 03:35:42 PM
I'd be keener to see Murnin get a run out in FF before Rafferty tbh, any word on him?

He was also listed as available in GL before the Derry game.

If Cork can beat Kerry then Armagh can beat Donegal, this is a shot to nothing with all of the pressure and expectation on Donegal. Armaghs goalkeeper and defenders will have to play significantly above themselves however. Armagh must not fall into the trap of playing a short passing running game, they will not beat the masters at their own game. A kicking gameplan in these conditions will prove to be the most effective and there are goals in this Armagh team if they set up accordingly. This type of game is the one that best suits good kickers such as 2 x O'Neills, Grimley, Grugan and Forker around the middle anyway. A big man on the edge of the square might not be the worst idea either as Patten, whilst he is a fantastic kicker, has shown that he is not comfortable under high balls in and around the square. In these conditions it is at least worth considering as a plan B.   

Bad weather as a leveller, Armagh def have an outside chance.

Decent weather, just can't see anything other than a Donegal win.

Closer than many will think tho as Armagh do have players to cause damage....Campbell, Grugan, Clarke, RoN and Murnin (when fit)

Quote from: tyroneman on November 09, 2020, 08:28:36 PM
Bad weather as a leveller, Armagh def have an outside chance.

Decent weather, just can't see anything other than a Donegal win.

Closer than many will think tho as Armagh do have players to cause damage....Campbell, Grugan, Clarke, RoN and Murnin (when fit)

It does look like it's going to be a greasy, wet day on Saturday. But wouldn't be convinced that really helps Armagh.

Winter football favours physical teams, and that Donegal side is full of big men. If anything, a few showers might make things even easier for them.

Well the rainfall in Donegal is significantly higher than in Armagh, I expect that are used to it.
I don't see a second ambush of a top 4 team in a week, despite some ambush expertise in parts of Armagh.
Its a pity that Murnin is not fit, he would be quite capable of catching a high ball and bunging it in the net, as happened in Cork.

Rian is also quite capable, but then he is usually the one delivering the ball in.

Quote from: armaghniac on November 10, 2020, 12:19:53 AM
Well the rainfall in Donegal is significantly higher than in Armagh, I expect that are used to it.
I don't see a second ambush of a top 4 team in a week, despite some ambush expertise in parts of Armagh.
Its a pity that Murnin is not fit, he would be quite capable of catching a high ball and bunging it in the net, as happened in Cork.

Armagh are a year or 3 behind Donegal

Quote from: Seaney on November 10, 2020, 08:11:32 AM
Rian is also quite capable, but then he is usually the one delivering the ball in.

if murnin is fit i would throw him into the forward line and see what he can do.
just heard coldrick the ref which isnt great as i find him self serving.
tbh though Hurson would have been a good shout for this game as he is fair and lets things flow.

Quote from: naka on November 10, 2020, 02:12:12 PM

Quote from: Seaney on November 10, 2020, 08:11:32 AM
Rian is also quite capable, but then he is usually the one delivering the ball in.

if murnin is fit i would throw him into the forward line and see what he can do.
just heard coldrick the ref which isnt great as i find him self serving.
tbh though Hurson would have been a good shout for this game as he is fair and lets things flow.

Self serving? Explain that one?

A good ref. If we have spent the 2 week break learning how to tackle we will be grand

Quote from: smelmoth on November 10, 2020, 04:00:00 PM

Quote from: naka on November 10, 2020, 02:12:12 PM

Quote from: Seaney on November 10, 2020, 08:11:32 AM
Rian is also quite capable, but then he is usually the one delivering the ball in.

if murnin is fit i would throw him into the forward line and see what he can do.
just heard coldrick the ref which isnt great as i find him self serving.
tbh though Hurson would have been a good shout for this game as he is fair and lets things flow.

Self serving? Explain that one?

A good ref. If we have spent the 2 week break learning how to tackle we will be grand

Doesn't want to explain his decisions , waves players away etc
Watched Hutson  and indeed falcon a few times as an example
Even when Both giving black cards took time to explain why and called the players by their name etc

Quote from: naka on November 10, 2020, 08:34:55 PM

Quote from: smelmoth on November 10, 2020, 04:00:00 PM

Quote from: naka on November 10, 2020, 02:12:12 PM

Quote from: Seaney on November 10, 2020, 08:11:32 AM
Rian is also quite capable, but then he is usually the one delivering the ball in.

if murnin is fit i would throw him into the forward line and see what he can do.
just heard coldrick the ref which isnt great as i find him self serving.
tbh though Hurson would have been a good shout for this game as he is fair and lets things flow.

Self serving? Explain that one?

A good ref. If we have spent the 2 week break learning how to tackle we will be grand

Doesn't want to explain his decisions , waves players away etc
Watched Hutson  and indeed falcon a few times as an example
Even when Both giving black cards took time to explain why and called the players by their name etc

Just the 2 problems with that critique of Coldrick.

Firstly it isn't true. He is probably the best at talking to players. There will of course be players who get into a state where they can't be talked to.

Secondly even if were true it makes no sense. How would it make him self serving? It's a very odd criticism

At least Armagh can say they lasted longer than Kerry, really can't see a way to win here, would love to be proved wrong.  Armagh have went to sleep for at least 10 minutes in every match, they will be roasted if they do that on Saturday.

Supposedly Patrick McBrearty and Neil McGee are good to go for Saturday. Paddy McGrath will not be fit.

I guess we'll see on the day. McBrearty was named to start against Tyrone, but didn't feature at any stage.

Quote from: J70 on November 11, 2020, 02:47:35 PM
Supposedly Patrick McBrearty and Neil McGee are good to go for Saturday. Paddy McGrath will not be fit.

I guess we'll see on the day. McBrearty was named to start against Tyrone, but didn't feature at any stage.

How fit/sharp can Paddy be? In all fairness i'd love it if he was an Armagh player but from his knee injury he seems to be struggling to be fit (he'll prob tear us a new one on Sat) but if he plays i doubt he'd have the same influence as he normally would. The problem with Donegal is we've too worry about too many on the team as there is quality all over it.
Armagh can win if they click as they do have the players, no doubt but the all the percentages are going Donegal's way...

Who to go for?  there are good people on both sides.

Yeah, its hard to see him shooting the lights out on his first intercounty game in nine months, especially in wet November conditions.

I'm still skeptical about whether he'll play, or at least, start.

We are lucky though in that we have plenty of firepower and size.

Quote from: Main Street on November 11, 2020, 05:21:50 PM
Who to go for?  there are good people on both sides.

A good experienced man will beat a good man with less experience, Donegal have been round the block.

Can't see us getting near Donegal to do a Cork number on them.  Just not strong and disciplined enough in the half back and full back lines.  All the signs point to an easy enough win for Donegal.  My only hope is that a few of the promising younger players like the O'Neills  will announce themselves on the bigger stage, but it's a big ask for them to carry us over the line.

If Armagh do a job on Murphy and McHugh then they have the firepower to do the job.

But that's a big ask. Who is likely to pick up Murphy? Maybe Forker? Possibly Shields on McHugh?

Quote from: Angelo on November 12, 2020, 09:29:41 AM
If Armagh do a job on Murphy and McHugh then they have the firepower to do the job.

But that's a big ask. Who is likely to pick up Murphy? Maybe Forker? Possibly Shields on McHugh?

I think Forker will be on McHugh.  Not sure about Murphy

Quote from: Angelo on November 12, 2020, 09:29:41 AM
If Armagh do a job on Murphy and McHugh then they have the firepower to do the job.

But that's a big ask. Who is likely to pick up Murphy? Maybe Forker? Possibly Shields on McHugh?

I'd agree with that. Forker probably our best hope against Murphy.  Murphy likes to drift out the field which will suit Forker perfectly.  Shields is the obvious man for McHugh.  Shields was poor in the final two league games but had a very good game against Derry especially in the second half into the wind.  Donegal don't rely on these two completely though and we don't have many more men to do man marking jobs on Brennan, Gallen, McBrearty to name a few.

Some of the talk on here is shambolic  ;D Yes Donegal are a great team. Yes Donegal are a better team than Armagh. But lets take the conditions into it. Heavy pitch, heavy ball, wet day- imo is a leveler. It would take a hell of a performance from armagh but if they can snuff Murphy and Brennan out then i feel they have as good a chance as anyone of winning. Keep it tight and don't concede silly frees and who knows. Armagh certainly have the fire power up front to do damage and score goals. Look at what happened Donegal when tyrone pushed up on them on a wet day. They forced errors and turn overs. A  large percentage of tyrones scores- including the goal, came from Donegal errors. Off the top of my head i can count tyrone scoring 1-5 through pushing up and gettign at Donegal

Quote from: samuel maguire on November 12, 2020, 12:03:54 PM
Some of the talk on here is shambolic  ;D Yes Donegal are a great team. Yes Donegal are a better team than Armagh. But lets talk the conditions into it. Heavy pitch, heavy ball, wet day- imo is a leveler. It would talk a hell of a performance from armagh but if they can snuff Murphy and Brennan out then i feel they have as good a chance as anyone of winning. Keep it tight and don't concede silly frees and who knows. Armagh certainly have the fire power up front to do damage and score goals. Look at what happened Donegal when tyrone pushed up on them on a wet day. They forced errors and turn overs. A  large percentage of tyrones scores- including the goal, came from Donegal errors. Off the top of my head i can count tyrone scoring 1-5 through pushing up and gettign at Donegal

All of the elements you have included do not make it a leveller.

Donegal still have superior players so they should still perform at a higher level along with a much better game plan

Its not as if the Donegal players are all small, light dry sod players

Quote from: mackers on November 12, 2020, 10:01:21 AM

Quote from: Angelo on November 12, 2020, 09:29:41 AM
If Armagh do a job on Murphy and McHugh then they have the firepower to do the job.

But that's a big ask. Who is likely to pick up Murphy? Maybe Forker? Possibly Shields on McHugh?

I'd agree with that. Forker probably our best hope against Murphy.  Murphy likes to drift out the field which will suit Forker perfectly.  Shields is the obvious man for McHugh.  Shields was poor in the final two league games but had a very good game against Derry especially in the second half into the wind.  Donegal don't rely on these two completely though and we don't have many more men to do man marking jobs on Brennan, Gallen, McBrearty to name a few.

They don't rely on them completely but if they dictate the game Armagh have no chance. If Armagh can take them out of the game and their big men excel then they have a decent, there's plenty of firepower in that Armagh side to do it.

Tyrone did a good job the last day on limiting their influence, the probelm for Tyrone was Donnelly was sacrificed to do a job on Murphy and the likes of Peter Harte and Conor McKenna never got into the game either.

I think the ball going into the forward line will decide the outcome of this match as both forward lines are more than capable of running up big scores, so the game will more than likely be won in midfield and whoever gets on top there. 

Armagh have at least 4 capable midfielders to compete with Donegal, so it wouldn't be a surprise to see Burns, Grimley, O'Neil and Sheridan start. 

As long as the game is not a repeat of 2015, it should have the makings of a good match. 

Is this on tv anywhere?

Quote from: tbrick18 on November 13, 2020, 10:14:11 AM
Is this on tv anywhere?

Sky sports mix, then deferred on bcc

the orchard have one or two injury concerns so the team named might not start.
they have a punchers chance tomorrow so I wouldn`t write them off.
hopefully defence keeps tight.

Quote from: naka on November 13, 2020, 10:58:50 AM
the orchard have one or two injury concerns so the team named might not start.
they have a punchers chance tomorrow so I wouldn`t write them off.
hopefully defence keeps tight.

Anyone know how close Donaghy or Murnin are to fitness ?

murnin has been in full training since before the Derry game so is fit.
really not sure on Donaghy simply because i didn`t ask.

Armagh sweating on a major injury blow for tomorrow. Key player picked up a nasty knock last week in training and it is looking likely he will miss out. Fuckkkkkkk

Quote from: naka on November 13, 2020, 10:58:50 AM
the orchard have one or two injury concerns so the team named might not start.
they have a punchers chance tomorrow so I wouldn`t write them off.
hopefully defence keeps tight.

Has McGeeney ever named the team that started anyway, I can't remember the last time must be at least a couple of years ago.

Major issues for Armagh are from a defensive point of view, not conceding goals and avoiding the easy concession of scoreable free kicks. That has been their achilles heel for a couple of seasons now. I'm also inclined to think that they should hit the kick outs long in the conditions, we have enough big men around the middle to at least break even if they do this. Push up on the Donegal kick out and force it long also.

The forward division is where they have most of their best players but I still struggle to see what the gameplan is at times. Persisting with a slow lateral build up between both 45m lines will play into Donegals hands so they must get the ball into the scoring zone much quicker. Effectively play more of a kicking game which may mean more ball turnover but the rewards will be much greater because of the inside threat that we pose. Donegal defensively are fairly suspect I feel especially if they aren't given time to put that screen in place. If they do this then they have a chance.

If they play cautious possession based football hoping to simply contain Donegal they could well get to within about 4-5 points of Donegal but it won't win them this match. There is absolutely nothing to lose since they have achieved their seasons goal of promotion so I am hopeful we will see a big performance tomorrow.   

Quote from: yellowcard on November 13, 2020, 12:31:53 PM

Quote from: naka on November 13, 2020, 10:58:50 AM
the orchard have one or two injury concerns so the team named might not start.
they have a punchers chance tomorrow so I wouldn`t write them off.
hopefully defence keeps tight.

Has McGeeney ever named the team that started anyway, I can't remember the last time must be at least a couple of years ago.

Major issues for Armagh are from a defensive point of view, not conceding goals and avoiding the easy concession of scoreable free kicks. That has been their achilles heel for a couple of seasons now. I'm also inclined to think that they should hit the kick outs long in the conditions, we have enough big men around the middle to at least break even if they do this. Push up on the Donegal kick out and force it long also.

The forward division is where they have most of their best players but I still struggle to see what the gameplan is at times. Persisting with a slow lateral build up between both 45m lines will play into Donegals hands so they must get the ball into the scoring zone much quicker. Effectively play more of a kicking game which may mean more ball turnover but the rewards will be much greater because of the inside threat that we pose. Donegal defensively are fairly suspect I feel especially if they aren't given time to put that screen in place. If they do this then they have a chance.

If they play cautious possession based football hoping to simply contain Donegal they could well get to within about 4-5 points of Donegal but it won't win them this match. There is absolutely nothing to lose since they have achieved their seasons goal of promotion so I am hopeful we will see a big performance tomorrow.   

Did Ger Loughnane not get a name for announcing dummy teams also?
Was it not him that was challenged by a reporter about it in advance of a Munster final and said that if it was down to him he wouldn't even tell Tipperary the time of the throw-in!! 

If O'Neill is out then that's probably curtains for Armagh. He's worth four or five points a game, they just can't replace that. Maybe Murnin can come in and make shite of Neil McGee, but I wouldn't be holding my breath.

dont have sky- does anyone know whats the craic with gaago - if u buy the game can u watch in the north?

Quote from: seanaglis on November 13, 2020, 09:31:07 PM
dont have sky- does anyone know whats the craic with gaago - if u buy the game can u watch in the north?

No, but I would assume you could with a VPN

Why is Donegal Armagh not available in Ireland with gaago if it's not on live?

Quote from: imtommygunn on November 13, 2020, 10:19:46 PM
Why is Donegal Armagh not available in Ireland with gaago if it's not on live?

It is on Live on Sky and you can get a Sports day pass for NowTV, no need for jiggery pokery.
Indeed NowTV were selling a two month deal for Sky Sports for €30, which would see out the GAA season and perhaps allow some other soccer be watched as well.
I wasn't in favour of Sky but as long as you can buy a day pass it is accessible.

Quote from: armaghniac on November 13, 2020, 10:27:53 PM

Quote from: imtommygunn on November 13, 2020, 10:19:46 PM
Why is Donegal Armagh not available in Ireland with gaago if it's not on live?

It is on Live on Sky and you can get a Sports day pass for NowTV, no need for jiggery pokery.
Indeed NowTV were selling a two month deal for Sky Sports for €30, which would see out the GAA season and perhaps allow some other soccer be watched as well.
I wasn't in favour of Sky but as long as you can buy a day pass it is accessible.

now tv- can you cast from it? its cat u have to pay to watch gaa on tv imo

Quote from: seanaglis on November 13, 2020, 10:48:58 PM

Quote from: armaghniac on November 13, 2020, 10:27:53 PM

Quote from: imtommygunn on November 13, 2020, 10:19:46 PM
Why is Donegal Armagh not available in Ireland with gaago if it's not on live?

It is on Live on Sky and you can get a Sports day pass for NowTV, no need for jiggery pokery.
Indeed NowTV were selling a two month deal for Sky Sports for €30, which would see out the GAA season and perhaps allow some other soccer be watched as well.
I wasn't in favour of Sky but as long as you can buy a day pass it is accessible.

now tv- can you cast from it? its cat u have to pay to watch gaa on tv imo

You'd have to pay to get in. Its amazing the people that would pay €25 to get in and the same travelling there, but they object to paying to watch.
The Connacht final is on at the same time, on RTÉ, if you want to economise.

Quote from: armaghniac on November 13, 2020, 11:42:36 PM

Quote from: seanaglis on November 13, 2020, 10:48:58 PM

Quote from: armaghniac on November 13, 2020, 10:27:53 PM

Quote from: imtommygunn on November 13, 2020, 10:19:46 PM
Why is Donegal Armagh not available in Ireland with gaago if it's not on live?

It is on Live on Sky and you can get a Sports day pass for NowTV, no need for jiggery pokery.
Indeed NowTV were selling a two month deal for Sky Sports for €30, which would see out the GAA season and perhaps allow some other soccer be watched as well.
I wasn't in favour of Sky but as long as you can buy a day pass it is accessible.

now tv- can you cast from it? its cat u have to pay to watch gaa on tv imo

You'd have to pay to get in. Its amazing the people that would pay €25 to get in and the same travelling there, but they object to paying to watch.
The Connacht final is on at the same time, on RTÉ, if you want to economise.

Connacht final is at 115 tomorrow also?

Quote from: tonto1888 on November 13, 2020, 11:45:43 PM
Connacht final is at 115 tomorrow also?

My mistake, that game is on Sunday.

(https://www.sportsnewsireland.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/14th-15th-November-LiveGAA-on-TV.jpg)

Quote from: Ed Ricketts on November 13, 2020, 01:40:52 PM
If O'Neill is out then that's probably curtains for Armagh. He's worth four or five points a game, they just can't replace that. Maybe Murnin can come in and make shite of Neil McGee, but I wouldn't be holding my breath.

Armagh have plenty of scoring power with or without O'Neill. O'Neill is a very talented forward but from the bits I've seen can be a bit indulgent and take some daft things on. I would say Niall Grimley is probably a more reliable free taker as well. Murnin is a very good replacement for him if he's out.

I would have to say that Stefan Campbell is Armagh's most important player from what I have seen in the past few seasons. So much of their play goes through him, he's a work horse and a huge scoring threat from the half forward line.

Stefan Campbell is as dangerous around the box as any forward out there but the problem is Armagh need his services more out the field where he uses his pace and strength to run at defenders and get a score or draw a foul. I reckon a wee cheeky move for McGeeney would be to throw into FF and i reckon he'd give NMCG a torrid time.

Donegal by 5

Quote from: illdecide on November 14, 2020, 11:54:40 AM
Stefan Campbell is as dangerous around the box as any forward out there but the problem is Armagh need his services more out the field where he uses his pace and strength to run at defenders and get a score or draw a foul. I reckon a wee cheeky move for McGeeney would be to throw into FF and i reckon he'd give NMCG a torrid time.

The problem is getting him the ball inside though. Donegal have a very good defensive shape to them and big, strong and athletic defenders that are up to the task.

Paddy McBrearty named to start and doesn't start again. Bonner loves the mind games.

Two changes on the named Armagh team as Greg McCabe and Jarly Og Burns come in for Callum Cumiskey and Niall Grimley.

Any links to this game? Watching Antrim game though wouldn't mind this on in the background

Murphy must have to be near killed to get a free kick.

20 minutes without a score for Armagh and only scores thus far was from frees. Looking like straightforward Donegal win.

Donegal very comfortable at the minute. This could turn nasty for Armagh.

Geezer is gone. Well probably not but they are miles off

Donegal moving up the gears, Armagh struggling badly.

Far too easy for Donegal, game is over after 25 minutes. Armagh running into cul de sacs constantly but Donegal look impressive.

Donegal 1-12 Armagh 0-3. Was a competitive match for 10 minutes. Just a matter of how much Donegal will win by now.

We are absolutely killing Armagh coming in off the wings, especially the left side.

Good use of the forward mark too by various players.

And super goal by young Mogan!

Another tactical master class from McGeeney. Ten yrs in county football winning nothing.

No coming back from this and I don't think wind will make much difference to donegal. Was expecting some form of a plan from armagh, especially to secure their own kick out against the inevitable donegal press but doesn't seem to be one. Donegal must have 4/5 pts from armagh kick outs.

Embarrassing is an understatement.

Reminds me of our game against Down two years ago.

Their kick out was a complete mess, and we kept winning it and running through for easy scores.

Thought if we could get within 7 we would be doing well. If we can get within ten it'll be good ffs. Donegal showing is how far from the top we really are. A very good team who will
Give dublin all they want

Armagh are pulp and Donegal are different class

We need Donegal v Dublin ai semi in croker! Could be a cracker.

Even worse than I expected.

Armagh have had a long history of poor goalkeepers letting the team down.

Quote from: SouthDublinBro on November 14, 2020, 02:08:49 PM
Armagh have had a long history of poor goalkeepers letting the team down.

There is more than keeper to blame, I would dearly love to know what the game plan was.

Armaghs first point from play after 48 minutes. Disappointing one sided contest.

Men against boys..

You can have as many game plans as you want

Armagh are muck at the minute

Quote from: SouthDublinBro on November 14, 2020, 02:08:49 PM
Armagh have had a long history of poor goalkeepers letting the team down.

They're hardly the Galway hurlers in that category

Very impressive display from Donegal today, they look the main challengers to Dublin now, great variation to their attacks and much easier on the eye than the McGuinness team that grinded their way to an All Ireland title.

Quote from: Angelo on November 14, 2020, 11:35:09 AM

Quote from: Ed Ricketts on November 13, 2020, 01:40:52 PM
If O'Neill is out then that's probably curtains for Armagh. He's worth four or five points a game, they just can't replace that. Maybe Murnin can come in and make shite of Neil McGee, but I wouldn't be holding my breath.

Armagh have plenty of scoring power with or without O'Neill. O'Neill is a very talented forward but from the bits I've seen can be a bit indulgent and take some daft things on. I would say Niall Grimley is probably a more reliable free taker as well. Murnin is a very good replacement for him if he's out.

I would have to say that Stefan Campbell is Armagh's most important player from what I have seen in the past few seasons. So much of their play goes through him, he's a work horse and a huge scoring threat from the half forward line.

Lol

Peadar Mogan is like a more effective version of Darran O'Sullivan, playing from half back

Donegal's pocket rocket

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 14, 2020, 02:26:45 PM
Men against boys..

You can have as many game plans as you want

Armagh are muck at the minute

A bit harsh but the gap between established top 5 team and Armagh who haven't played division 1 football for 8 years is clear to see today.

A good start & playing with the wind were essential, confidence punctured after 10 minutes and embarrassing since. Half a dozen players short of a top class team. Ryan Kennedy again looking solid about the only positive I can see. McGeeney's position will surely come under scrutiny again.

Quote from: Blowitupref on November 14, 2020, 02:45:10 PM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 14, 2020, 02:26:45 PM
Men against boys..

You can have as many game plans as you want

Armagh are muck at the minute

A bit harsh but the gap between established top 5 team and Armagh who haven't played division 1 football for 8 years is clear to see today.

Armagh are muck this yr as opposed to when? They got promoted to Div1 and are up against a genuine AI Contender here today. If they had a good manager they could improve another bit. But they are a good team

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 14, 2020, 02:26:45 PM
Men against boys..

You can have as many game plans as you want

Armagh are muck at the minute

Of you meant at the minute you wrote that then hard to disagree. Overall we have made progress this last year or two. We are a long way off the likes of the Donegal's and Dublins. This game shows us just how far and how much work we need to do.

WTF was that kick across the back of McHugh's calf by the Armagh 15??

Quote from: bennydorano on November 14, 2020, 02:49:45 PM
A good start & playing with the wind were essential, confidence punctured after 10 minutes and embarrassing since. Half a dozen players short of a top class team. Ryan Kennedy again looking solid about the only positive I can see. McGeeney's position will surely come under scrutiny again.

After gaining promotion to division one I doubt it. And nor should it

Quote from: Orior on November 03, 2020, 12:10:29 PM
Let's start the conversation. My prediction:

Armagh 0-13 Donegal 3-15

Hope I am very wrong.

Have you tonights lotto numbers?

Do you think they will let us stay in Division 2. I was getting very happy winning the odd game.

Armagh was a million miles away from the competitive performance against Donegal in 2014. Only positive was no fans was in attendance to witness that.  Major improvement required in defence and midfield for 2021 to avoid seven division 1 defeats.

Six county Gaelic football has declined something shocking

Only Down left carrying the fleg in this year's championship now

Since the decline of the great Tyrone team there has been no outstanding team from the wee six

Down 2010 and Tyrone 2018 reached All-Ireland finals but Down 2010 were a flash in the pan and Tyrone 2018 stumbled into the final almost by default in a year when other potential challengers were taken out

7 of the last 9 Ulster Championships have gone to the saorstát and that looks almost certain to be 8 out of 10

Only Tyrone have maintained any sort of pretensions of being near the top table, Armagh, Down and Derry are in long slumbers, Fermanagh and Antrim can throw their hats at it

Well that was fun. 

Unfortunately Armagh were required to fulfil this fixture or face sanctions from the GAA.

Peadar Mogan comes across as a smashing lad altogether - full of enthusiasm and wide eyed excitement in his interview

Reminiscent of Jack McCaffrey

He's doing a fair impression of McCaffrey's style of play too

Players like that bring so much more to a team than just their contribution on the pitch, you'd be buzzing to play with a lad like Mogan

I really think this Donegal team has a great chance against Dublin

Armagh looked disjointed, nervous and consistently made the wrong decisions. Kick outs awful. Our defence is really poor and was badly exposed today. Our panel has no strength in depth. Bringing on players who are riddled with injury to take them off again less than 10 mins later. Out fought in midfield. Forwards clueless. Our forwards collectively are overrated - when  the chips are down they are found wanting.

Reality is Armagh are way off Division 1 standard. Someone says their half a dozen short of being a top class team. I'd disagree. Half a dozen off being a team able to compete. They did exceptionally well to achieve promotion but they lack the makings of a division 1 team. McGeeney getting flack as usual, which is deserved to a certain extent (especially after today) but doesn't take into account the bigger picture. Who in the county or elsewhere is going to do any better with the players available? It's not as if there's a wealth of hidden gems in Armagh club football ready to be unearthed.

Quote from: tonto1888 on November 14, 2020, 02:51:20 PM

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 14, 2020, 02:26:45 PM
Men against boys..

You can have as many game plans as you want

Armagh are muck at the minute

Of you meant at the minute you wrote that then hard to disagree. Overall we have made progress this last year or two. We are a long way off the likes of the Donegal's and Dublins. This game shows us just how far and how much work we need to do.

Yes today Armagh are muck.. Donegal are very strong in all areas

Quote from: Captain Obvious on November 14, 2020, 02:55:58 PM
Armagh was a million miles away from the competitive performance against Donegal in 2014. Only positive was no fans was in attendance to witness that.  Major improvement required in defence and midfield for 2021 to avoid seven division 1 defeats.

as a team we aren't as good as 2014. We don't have the same quality of players. Donegal are probably better now also.

Quote from: sid waddell on November 14, 2020, 03:09:13 PM
Peadar Mogan comes across as a smashing lad altogether - full of enthusiasm and wide eyed excitement in his interview

Reminiscent of Jack McCaffrey

He's doing a fair impression of McCaffrey's style of play too

Players like that bring so much more to a team than just their contribution on the pitch, you'd be buzzing to play with a lad like Mogan

I really think this Donegal team has a great chance against Dublin

The St Nauls club don't get too much representation at senior county first-15 level, so he'll be the pride of Mountcharles tonight.

Especially with not a Four Masters man to be seen on the pitch!

Quote from: tonto1888 on November 14, 2020, 02:52:10 PM

Quote from: bennydorano on November 14, 2020, 02:49:45 PM
A good start & playing with the wind were essential, confidence punctured after 10 minutes and embarrassing since. Half a dozen players short of a top class team. Ryan Kennedy again looking solid about the only positive I can see. McGeeney's position will surely come under scrutiny again.

After gaining promotion to division one I doubt it. And nor should it

This is not a kneejerk reaction - It needs scrutiny. The tactical failings are pretty consistent. Hard questions need to be asked and backroom teams shook up at the very least.

Quote from: bennydorano on November 14, 2020, 03:21:31 PM

Quote from: tonto1888 on November 14, 2020, 02:52:10 PM

Quote from: bennydorano on November 14, 2020, 02:49:45 PM
A good start & playing with the wind were essential, confidence punctured after 10 minutes and embarrassing since. Half a dozen players short of a top class team. Ryan Kennedy again looking solid about the only positive I can see. McGeeney's position will surely come under scrutiny again.

After gaining promotion to division one I doubt it. And nor should it

This is not a kneejerk reaction - It needs scrutiny. The tactical failings are pretty consistent. Hard questions need to be asked and backroom teams shook up at the very least.

Can we be better? Yes. Can McGeeney be better? Definitely. I like the idea of rejigging the back room team. However, after getting promotion I don't think now is the time for McGeeney to go

Quote from: general_lee on November 14, 2020, 03:11:50 PM
Armagh looked disjointed, nervous and consistently made the wrong decisions. Kick outs awful. Our defence is really poor and was badly exposed today. Our panel has no strength in depth. Bringing on players who are riddled with injury to take them off again less than 10 mins later. Out fought in midfield. Forwards clueless. Our forwards collectively are overrated - when  the chips are down they are found wanting.

Reality is Armagh are way off Division 1 standard. Someone says their half a dozen short of being a top class team. I'd disagree. Half a dozen off being a team able to compete. They did exceptionally well to achieve promotion but they lack the makings of a division 1 team. McGeeney getting flack as usual, which is deserved to a certain extent (especially after today) but doesn't take into account the bigger picture. Who in the county or elsewhere is going to do any better with the players available? It's not as if there's a wealth of hidden gems in Armagh club football ready to be unearthed.

Shane McConville, either McEntee? At least a different goalie might get a run.

With the exception of Kennedy our back 4 are not up to it. We must have no other players in the county who are better or we would play them!!! Right. It seems the team management are forced into making adjustments out the field to compensate for this weak defense and evidence today's game... that's not working

Let's not make distinctions between ulster and the wee six. Spend our lives hoping for a united Ireland without people on here distinguishing between them

Quote from: bennydorano on November 14, 2020, 03:26:49 PM
Shane McConville, either McEntee? At least a different goalie might get a run.

And what are they going to do different with the backs we have?

Quote from: omochain on November 14, 2020, 03:32:17 PM
With the exception of Kennedy our back 4 are not up to it. We must have no other players in the county who are better or we would play them!!! Right. It seems the team management are forced into making adjustments out the field to compensate for this weak defense and evidence today's game... that's not working

I'm not sure the players are there right now in Armagh club football. I thought Forker done ok, Shields is great going forward and agree Kennedy is decent. We have no decent man markers nor a commanding goalkeeper

Quote from: tonto1888 on November 14, 2020, 03:14:20 PM

Quote from: Captain Obvious on November 14, 2020, 02:55:58 PM
Armagh was a million miles away from the competitive performance against Donegal in 2014. Only positive was no fans was in attendance to witness that.  Major improvement required in defence and midfield for 2021 to avoid seven division 1 defeats.

as a team we aren’t as good as 2014. We don’t have the same quality of players. Donegal are probably better now also.

Especially defensively. Hard to know with Donegal, 2014 they reached the All-Ireland final and hamerred Dublin on route.

Quote from: sid waddell on November 14, 2020, 03:04:18 PM
Six county Gaelic football has declined something shocking

Only Down left carrying the fleg in this year's championship now

Since the decline of the great Tyrone team there has been no outstanding team from the wee six

Down 2010 and Tyrone 2018 reached All-Ireland finals but Down 2010 were a flash in the pan and Tyrone 2018 stumbled into the final almost by default in a year when other potential challengers were taken out

7 of the last 9 Ulster Championships have gone to the saorstát and that looks almost certain to be 8 out of 10

Only Tyrone have maintained any sort of pretensions of being near the top table, Armagh, Down and Derry are in long slumbers, Fermanagh and Antrim can throw their hats at it

This is the first year since 2014 that an Ulster team has progressed further than Tyrone

Quote from: general_lee on November 14, 2020, 03:45:26 PM

Quote from: bennydorano on November 14, 2020, 03:26:49 PM
Shane McConville, either McEntee? At least a different goalie might get a run.

And what are they going to do different with the backs we have?

Quote from: omochain on November 14, 2020, 03:32:17 PM
With the exception of Kennedy our back 4 are not up to it. We must have no other players in the county who are better or we would play them!!! Right. It seems the team management are forced into making adjustments out the field to compensate for this weak defense and evidence today's game... that's not working

I'm not sure the players are there right now in Armagh club football. I thought Forker done ok, Shields is great going forward and agree Kennedy is decent. We have no decent man markers nor a commanding goalkeeper

Well that's the joy of a new approach, trying something new, who knows? Maybe try something different with different personnel.

You'd have to wonder what all these development squads and Ulster council coaches is actually achieving. Armagh, Derry, Antrim, Fermanagh- the list goes on. all very average. It's a simple game.

Donegal are doing something right. I have a contact there who is well tuned in told me about Langan Farah Mogan a few years ago. 3 very classy acts. Add in 2 other class acts O Boille Ferry and Gillespie and theres no doubt Donegal are developing a better class of player than just about anybody else.

More or less as expected.
I predicted 10+ points to Donegal after the Tyrone game and watching Armagh v Derry.
Donegal, imo, are a full head and shoulders above everything else in Ulster. I think they have a real shot at all Ireland this year.
I'm not sure where Armagh go from this. I hear Mickey Harte is available.
Like most of the other Ulster teams, they just don't have enough players at that top level.

Someone commented on the development squads. I think they are a waste of time if you don't have top level coaches running them. That certainly hasn't always been the case in Derry, can't comment on other counties. I think it's also very important to get the right players into Dev squads. In Kerry I'm told they send the players who are behind the star players in clubs. It brings them on and when they return to the club, they push the star players on more. Might be something in that.
I'd prefer the money is pumped into the club's than these Dev squads. Improve the quality of coaching on a club by club basis at all under age levels...that's the way to improve imo.

Well done Donegal.

I'm thinking that Donegal have cottoned onto what Dublin / Gavin have largely mastered over the past few years.

The key to coaching a team in attacking football, isn't about percentages. It isn't about trying to get the players to make a preprogrammed decision based on an algorithm that derives from where they are on the field, and how they rank in terms of creativity among the team. It's about coaching players to move in such a way as to continually present options to the ball carrier, and then allowing him to make up his own mind. Then, when he makes up his mind, to do it with absolute conviction.

Whereas the key to defensive play isn't about setting up intricate systems and rules. It's first and foremost about winning your own personal battle, then looking for a bit of help when it's not possible to do so.

——

This isn't to say that Dublin and now Donegal don't have tactics or a style of football. But both play a remarkably simple game of football. Run into positions where you create an advantage to your team, then demand the ball. If you don't get it, repeat.

——

With the point being that Armagh, while not as slavishly bound to a system as Tyrone, Monaghan or Kerry have shown this year, don't play like this. Their defenders don't take personal responsibility. Their midfielders want to catch first, ensure possession second. Their forwards are talented, but not in terms of interplay. Donegal are pretty much the opposite.

What ever happened c ohanoln from armagh. He was touted to be the next big thing when he was younger

Quote from: Sportacus on November 14, 2020, 06:26:13 PM
You'd have to wonder what all these development squads and Ulster council coaches is actually achieving. Armagh, Derry, Antrim, Fermanagh- the list goes on. all very average. It's a simple game.

Very simple what it is achieving- a load of lads who can't make their way in the real
World milking the system and getting a complete clondyke out of it and it is all based on bluff.

Quote from: thewobbler on November 14, 2020, 07:46:34 PM
I'm thinking that Donegal have cottoned onto what Dublin / Gavin have largely mastered over the past few years.

The key to coaching a team in attacking football, isn't about percentages. It isn't about trying to get the players to make a preprogrammed decision based on an algorithm that derives from where they are on the field, and how they rank in terms of creativity among the team. It's about coaching players to move in such a way as to continually present options to the ball carrier, and then allowing him to make up his own mind. Then, when he makes up his mind, to do it with absolute conviction.

Whereas the key to defensive play isn't about setting up intricate systems and rules. It's first and foremost about winning your own personal battle, then looking for a bit of help when it's not possible to do so.

——

This isn't to say that Dublin and now Donegal don't have tactics or a style of football. But both play a remarkably simple game of football. Run into positions where you create an advantage to your team, then demand the ball. If you don't get it, repeat.

——

With the point being that Armagh, while not as slavishly bound to a system as Tyrone, Monaghan or Kerry have shown this year, don't play like this. Their defenders don't take personal responsibility. Their midfielders want to catch first, ensure possession second. Their forwards are talented, but not in terms of interplay. Donegal are pretty much the opposite.

Remarkable the similarities of todays Donegal performance with what we've come accustomed to see from Dublin.13 scorers in a game against a team recently promoted to Div.1 and after being level after almost 10 minutes they proceeded to close out Armagh for the next 20 minutes which determined the final result.

After seeing Aidan Forker's performances in the Armagh Club  Championship this year is it not a little  surprising to see him in a role as a man marker thus negating his obvious offensive ability?

Quote from: thewobbler on November 14, 2020, 07:46:34 PM
I'm thinking that Donegal have cottoned onto what Dublin / Gavin have largely mastered over the past few years.

The key to coaching a team in attacking football, isn't about percentages. It isn't about trying to get the players to make a preprogrammed decision based on an algorithm that derives from where they are on the field, and how they rank in terms of creativity among the team. It's about coaching players to move in such a way as to continually present options to the ball carrier, and then allowing him to make up his own mind. Then, when he makes up his mind, to do it with absolute conviction.

Whereas the key to defensive play isn't about setting up intricate systems and rules. It's first and foremost about winning your own personal battle, then looking for a bit of help when it's not possible to do so.

——

This isn't to say that Dublin and now Donegal don't have tactics or a style of football. But both play a remarkably simple game of football. Run into positions where you create an advantage to your team, then demand the ball. If you don't get it, repeat.

——

With the point being that Armagh, while not as slavishly bound to a system as Tyrone, Monaghan or Kerry have shown this year, don't play like this. Their defenders don't take personal responsibility. Their midfielders want to catch first, ensure possession second. Their forwards are talented, but not in terms of interplay. Donegal are pretty much the opposite.

Having the best players helps tho

Quote from: MK on November 14, 2020, 08:51:32 PM
After seeing Aidan Forker's performances in the Armagh Club  Championship this year is it not a little  surprising to see him in a role as a man marker thus negating his obvious offensive ability?

Not surprising when there isn't anyone else up to the task.

Quote from: redzone on November 14, 2020, 08:32:07 PM
What ever happened c ohanoln from armagh. He was touted to be the next big thing when he was younger

On and off the panel for a few years. Went abroad for a bit. Back now. Still young enough and talented enough to be involved - should be on the panel for 2021, if he wants to be.

Quote from: bennydorano on November 14, 2020, 10:41:24 PM

Quote from: thewobbler on November 14, 2020, 07:46:34 PM
I'm thinking that Donegal have cottoned onto what Dublin / Gavin have largely mastered over the past few years.

The key to coaching a team in attacking football, isn't about percentages. It isn't about trying to get the players to make a preprogrammed decision based on an algorithm that derives from where they are on the field, and how they rank in terms of creativity among the team. It's about coaching players to move in such a way as to continually present options to the ball carrier, and then allowing him to make up his own mind. Then, when he makes up his mind, to do it with absolute conviction.

Whereas the key to defensive play isn't about setting up intricate systems and rules. It's first and foremost about winning your own personal battle, then looking for a bit of help when it's not possible to do so.

——

This isn't to say that Dublin and now Donegal don't have tactics or a style of football. But both play a remarkably simple game of football. Run into positions where you create an advantage to your team, then demand the ball. If you don't get it, repeat.

——

With the point being that Armagh, while not as slavishly bound to a system as Tyrone, Monaghan or Kerry have shown this year, don't play like this. Their defenders don't take personal responsibility. Their midfielders want to catch first, ensure possession second. Their forwards are talented, but not in terms of interplay. Donegal are pretty much the opposite.

Having the best players helps tho

Benny, player talent is the fundamental key to success.

But I'd sincerely ask why any county board should stump up a large 6-figures a year on salaries, consultants, equipment and devices, if it's not to bridge that gap?

That's what's going on all over the country. A legion of managers teaching players how to lose in a structured fashion, instead of chase down a win. That's not particularly the case in Armagh. Kieran isn't a defensive manager. But whatever he's been doing at training the past 5 years isn't improving the players he has been given.

 

Quote from: thewobbler on November 14, 2020, 11:43:31 PM

Quote from: bennydorano on November 14, 2020, 10:41:24 PM

Quote from: thewobbler on November 14, 2020, 07:46:34 PM
I'm thinking that Donegal have cottoned onto what Dublin / Gavin have largely mastered over the past few years.

The key to coaching a team in attacking football, isn't about percentages. It isn't about trying to get the players to make a preprogrammed decision based on an algorithm that derives from where they are on the field, and how they rank in terms of creativity among the team. It's about coaching players to move in such a way as to continually present options to the ball carrier, and then allowing him to make up his own mind. Then, when he makes up his mind, to do it with absolute conviction.

Whereas the key to defensive play isn't about setting up intricate systems and rules. It's first and foremost about winning your own personal battle, then looking for a bit of help when it's not possible to do so.

——

This isn't to say that Dublin and now Donegal don't have tactics or a style of football. But both play a remarkably simple game of football. Run into positions where you create an advantage to your team, then demand the ball. If you don't get it, repeat.

——

With the point being that Armagh, while not as slavishly bound to a system as Tyrone, Monaghan or Kerry have shown this year, don't play like this. Their defenders don't take personal responsibility. Their midfielders want to catch first, ensure possession second. Their forwards are talented, but not in terms of interplay. Donegal are pretty much the opposite.

Having the best players helps tho

Benny, player talent is the fundamental key to success.

But I'd sincerely ask why any county board should stump up a large 6-figures a year on salaries, consultants, equipment and devices, if it's not to bridge that gap?

That's what's going on all over the country. A legion of managers teaching players how to lose in a structured fashion, instead of chase down a win. That's not particularly the case in Armagh. Kieran isn't a defensive manager. But whatever he's been doing at training the past 5 years isn't improving the players he has been given.

And Paddy Tally is improving the Down players Wobbler? The Down first half last week was totally inept based on the Tally template but when they got back to their direct and aggressive attack in the second half it paid off. You know as well as me that Down do not do defensive well and our lads are not suited to 14 behind the ball.

BTW in bold, you and your club bankrolled Poacher to do exactly that for many years.

Sorry, at what point did I mention Tally?

—-

Again Lotto, you read the Down section enough to know how I feel about paid managers and what they bring. Don't make this personal.

Quote from: bennydorano on November 14, 2020, 05:17:52 PM

Quote from: general_lee on November 14, 2020, 03:45:26 PM

Quote from: bennydorano on November 14, 2020, 03:26:49 PM
Shane McConville, either McEntee? At least a different goalie might get a run.

And what are they going to do different with the backs we have?

Quote from: omochain on November 14, 2020, 03:32:17 PM
With the exception of Kennedy our back 4 are not up to it. We must have no other players in the county who are better or we would play them!!! Right. It seems the team management are forced into making adjustments out the field to compensate for this weak defense and evidence today's game... that's not working

I'm not sure the players are there right now in Armagh club football. I thought Forker done ok, Shields is great going forward and agree Kennedy is decent. We have no decent man markers nor a commanding goalkeeper

Well that's the joy of a new approach, trying something new, who knows? Maybe try something different with different personnel.

Comparing 2014 AI QF loss v Donegal wouldn't be a wasted exercise.  Didn't have a commanding GK then either, forwards & MF decent enough but also missed plenty that day if I remember right.  Difference I'd say is in the standard of defender.  I'd agree that Kennedy is the only one who would've got a game in 2014.  Donegal have also been transformed from then.   Their HFs are outstanding.   Not sure if they've that many players who survived from then?   Maybe 5/6?  Armagh only have about 3/4.  Somebody could research it.  Might have a look..

Armagh have forker Campbell and Clarke and shields from the starting team that day. Donaghy started but obviously didn't get on yesterday. McEvoy was in goals. A much better keeper than BH IMO. the defence was Moriarty, Vernon,, Mallon, Kernan, Donaghy, Shields. 1-7 that day was a lot better than 1-7 yesterday.

Just finished reading / watching that:

BBC copyright:

Armagh: P McEvoy, F Moriarty, C Vernon, A Mallon (0-1), M Shields, B Donaghy, A Kernan (0-2, 1f), S Harold, A Findon, A Forker (0-1), K Dyas, T Kernan (0-4, 1f), K Carragher (0-1), S Campbell (1-1), J Clarke.

Subs: B Mallon for Carragher, E Rafferty for Findon, R Grugan for Dyas, M Murray (0-1) for Forker, K Toner for Harold.

Donegal: P Durcan, E McGee, N McGee (0-1), F McGlynn, A Thompson, K Lacey, P McGrath, N Gallagher, C Toye, R McHugh, L McLoone, O MacNiallais (1-1), P McBrearty (0-2), M Murphy (0-5, 4f), C McFadden (0-3, 2f).

Subs: R Kavanagh for Toye, M McElhinney for McLoone, D O'Connor for McFadden, M O'Reilly for McBrearty.

Referee: J McQuillan (Cavan)

BBC copyright.

Agree Tonto but McEvoy should've done better for the goal.   GKs always easy targets.

McGeeney was no.2 to Paul Grimley that year.

Quote from: Ronnie on November 15, 2020, 08:36:25 AM
Just finished reading / watching that:

BBC copyright:

Armagh: P McEvoy, F Moriarty, C Vernon, A Mallon (0-1), M Shields, B Donaghy, A Kernan (0-2, 1f), S Harold, A Findon, A Forker (0-1), K Dyas, T Kernan (0-4, 1f), K Carragher (0-1), S Campbell (1-1), J Clarke.

Subs: B Mallon for Carragher, E Rafferty for Findon, R Grugan for Dyas, M Murray (0-1) for Forker, K Toner for Harold.

Donegal: P Durcan, E McGee, N McGee (0-1), F McGlynn, A Thompson, K Lacey, P McGrath, N Gallagher, C Toye, R McHugh, L McLoone, O MacNiallais (1-1), P McBrearty (0-2), M Murphy (0-5, 4f), C McFadden (0-3, 2f).

Subs: R Kavanagh for Toye, M McElhinney for McLoone, D O'Connor for McFadden, M O'Reilly for McBrearty.

Referee: J McQuillan (Cavan)

BBC copyright.

Agree Tonto but McEvoy should've done better for the goal.   GKs always easy targets.

GKs are definitely easy targets and I'm not one to criticise young BH easily. I just think McEvoy was a better keeper. Hughes has a lot of good points but he is weak at times too. Letting one bounce over the crossbar yesterday being an example. That's before we look at kick outs - not all to do with him mind you - but he often kicks straight to the opposition

Not all the Armagh keeper's fault.

With regard the ball bouncing over the bar, you could say rookie mistake, but if he had stepped out it could easily have been flicked into the net.

On the kick-outs - definitely not enough movement out in the field.

Armagh lack real pace in their side, lots of quality forwards but there were occasions when Mogan and Gallagher took off and no Armagh players could live with them.

Will McGeeney stay on? Think that was the last of his 5 year term.

Did anyone see mcgeeney's interview with bbc last night? Don't know what anyone else thinks but I thought it was a disgrace. absolutely blamed players on all that wrong because they did not do what he told them. He has been managing them for six years, so there is two scenarios there. First one is he is not coaching them correctly to do whatever it is he wants them to do. Second scenario is that the players do not believe in whatever it is the manager is looking them to do. Either way it is a failure of management. IMO kmcg cannot shirk responsibility here.
I would not have been in the mcgeeney out camp before as I thought he just needed to get a bit of competent help in. But after that interview it is very hard to see how the players could be happy. And if they are happy enough then that tells it own story #brainwashed

The pace of the Down players today was very noticeable when compared to the rather ponderous approach of Armagh.

Quote from: armaghniac on November 15, 2020, 07:58:16 PM
The pace of the Down players today was very noticeable when compared to the rather ponderous approach of Armagh.

Yes, Down were excellent first half.

We were very ponderous as you say. Donegal had quick hands, quick thinking and knew exactly what they were at. Our attacking was very noticeably off the cuff.

Quote from: Angelo on November 15, 2020, 07:07:54 PM
Armagh lack real pace in their side, lots of quality forwards but there were occasions when Mogan and Gallagher took off and no Armagh players could live with them.

Will McGeeney stay on? Think that was the last of his 5 year term.

I don't think many could live with those two.
This was his 6th year

Teams Armagh have beaten in the Championship under McGeeney
Wicklow
Fermanagh
Westmeath
Tipperary
Kildare
Westmeath
Sligo
Clare
Monaghan
Down
Derry

Teams Armagh have been beaten by in the Championship under McGeeney
Donegal
Galway
Cavan
Laois
Down
Tyrone
Fermanagh
Roscommon
Cavan
Mayo 
Donegal

Teams Armagh have drawn with in the Championship under McGeeney
Cavan
Laois * [if you consider the 7 sub game that had to be replayed a draw]

Overall 24 games played 11 wins, 11 losses and 2 draws.

Armagh gave him 2 more years in 2019, so think he will remain in situ next year.

Will struggle to avoid relegation and hard to see any serious championship impact with McGeeney finishing up then.

Quote from: tonto1888 on November 15, 2020, 08:16:25 PM

Quote from: Angelo on November 15, 2020, 07:07:54 PM
Armagh lack real pace in their side, lots of quality forwards but there were occasions when Mogan and Gallagher took off and no Armagh players could live with them.

Will McGeeney stay on? Think that was the last of his 5 year term.

I don't think many could live with those two.
This was his 6th year

Maybe not but I think the lack of pace between Armagh and the top teams in the middle third is probably the biggest gap that is holding them back. If Armagh are to make the next step they need to get some serious runners in that middle third area.

Lots of very intemperate stuff on here and on the Orchard site, but a few comments:

Going out of the Ulster Championship on the end of a hammering like that would normally leave you pretty sickened, but in the world of Covid and with the championship being played in November, it leaves you a lot more philosophical. 

Armagh are definitely a few players short of being at Donegal's standard, but whereas you would have expected that to translate to a 5 or 6 point defeat, it translated to a hammering because the stronger players didn't perform anywhere near to the level they are capable of.  Honestly don't believe that Armagh are as bad as they showed on Saturday.  The players seemed to be lacking in confidence and it was like they didn't believe that they could compete.  Once they went 5-2 they panicked, carrying the ball into traffic, taking silly shots and trying killer passes which never came off. It then became a systems breakdown and everything fell apart.  On that basis it would be wrong to single out anyone's performance tempting as it may be.

I wouldn't be for getting rid of McGeeney, not that I think he is going anywhere.  He deserves a shot at keeping them in Division 1.  But he should be changing up his backroom team. Look at the influence Rochford has had in Donegal. They need to hit the reset button after that defeat and a bit of a clear out in terms of mentors and some players would be healthy for a fresh start in 2021. 

If the players didn't know before, they know now what they need to do to compete with Dublin, Donegal and Tyrone.  There will be a long enough lay off before the start of the league, which will probably start later than normal next year which gives them more time to prepare. Some of the most influential players are now late 20s early 30s, but they will be motivated to stick together for a stint in Division 1 and success next year will be staying up. 

Quote from: APM on November 16, 2020, 10:44:09 AM
Lots of very intemperate stuff on here and on the Orchard site, but a few comments:

Going out of the Ulster Championship on the end of a hammering like that would normally leave you pretty sickened, but in the world of Covid and with the championship being played in November, it leaves you a lot more philosophical. 

Armagh are definitely a few players short of being at Donegal's standard, but whereas you would have expected that to translate to a 5 or 6 point defeat, it translated to a hammering because the stronger players didn't perform anywhere near to the level they are capable of.  Honestly don't believe that Armagh are as bad as they showed on Saturday.  The players seemed to be lacking in confidence and it was like they didn't believe that they could compete.  Once they went 5-2 they panicked, carrying the ball into traffic, taking silly shots and trying killer passes which never came off. It then became a systems breakdown and everything fell apart.  On that basis it would be wrong to single out anyone's performance tempting as it may be.

I wouldn't be for getting rid of McGeeney, not that I think he is going anywhere.  He deserves a shot at keeping them in Division 1.  But he should be changing up his backroom team. Look at the influence Rochford has had in Donegal. They need to hit the reset button after that defeat and a bit of a clear out in terms of mentors and some players would be healthy for a fresh start in 2021. 

If the players didn't know before, they know now what they need to do to compete with Dublin, Donegal and Tyrone.  There will be a long enough lay off before the start of the league, which will probably start later than normal next year which gives them more time to prepare. Some of the most influential players are now late 20s early 30s, but they will be motivated to stick together for a stint in Division 1 and success next year will be staying up.

Absolutely spot on. I have been critical of the management in the past but the reality is they  are going  nowhere next season and this has been a strange season to say the least.

Everyone who's talking about getting rid of McGeeney and getting an outside of the county man need to realise that this will cost the guts of £100k a year between a new man and his team. On ye go lads, get your hands in your pockets and back it up.

The reality is that the level of football in the county as a whole is poor. Call a spade a spade and the reality is when Cross dominated on the team I played on and the team the team that did back to back a second time the quality of the other clubs pushed us harder than most teams outside of the county. We have not been as strong in recent years and as a consequence it is 'easier' to win a county. With all due respects to Harps when they won it, Maghery, and the likes of Ballymacnab, Cullyhanna a few years ago and the other teams that are 'challenging' but they are not at the same level as previous Ogs teams, Clans, Dromintee, Mullaghbawn, and evening precious Harps and Maghery teams. As a consequence the overall quality of the players coming through is at a lower level. For Armagh to be pushing on to Division 1 is an excellent achievement but there is a huge step up between now and the new season.

To my mind the 3 Cross lads, Forker, Jamie at the latter stages, Grimley and young Turbitt were the only ones who looked like proper county players today. Murnin is made of glass and you wonder whether he has the mentality to cut it and play through the pain, shame as he is very talented. Grugan has the ability but today wasn't his day. The rest of the players were streets off the level required.


Bring in a few new players, here are the ones I have suggest on Orchard forum.

T McConville - Cross Goalie
Steven Morris
Cian McConville
O Hanlon and Higgins from Killeavey
Crealy from Maghery
Heffernan and McCambridge are certainly good enough.

There needs to be a shake up on the line and I would question McCorry double jobbing with Burren. Time and loyalties will be hard to split there. I won't bang the drum about having someone from Cross on the sideline as i don't think it will happen but if you had Tony Mc in like Rochforde in Donegal it could only help.

Whilst I didn't expect Armagh to beat Donegal on Saturday, I did expect us to be at least competitive with them. However we were exposed as a mid ranking Division 2 side. It was a reality check. We don't have an abundance of talent coming through the system in recent years, in fact I can't remember the last decent underage side we produced at either minor or U-20/21 level. Armagh club football is probably also at its weakest in a generation. That in itself is very telling, so there is a definite talent deficit in terms of new players coming in. We are as likely to lose a few of our best and more experienced players in the next 2-3 years as we are to gain a couple at the other end of the age spectrum so it is not like we are definitely progressing on an upward curve. It seems to be a step forward followed by a step backwards, rinse and repeat. We don't look remotely capable of beating any of the top sides and we will approach next years division 1 campaign with some degree of trepidation.

As far as the manager is concerned, McGeeney is now managing consecutively at county level for 11 years which is remarkable in itself. He can prepare a team mentally and physically on an individual level with the best of managers. Improving them as footballers and moulding them into a cohesive unit with a clearly defined gameplan is another matter altogether. I think there does come a point where the players need a new voice or a change in direction and 6 years is a long time to spend in a job without any real tangible success. On the other hand a new manager would still have the same problems and I'm not sure there would be a huge clamour for the job. Unless McGeeney steps down I don't really see the county board replacing him but it will be a difficult task for whoever is in charge to both stay in division 1 and try and compete for a provincial title in the next few years. Those are the obvious next steps but we have to be realistic and say that they are as far away as ever.         

Agree with a lot of what's already been said, v disappointed on Sat and took me a while to digest the manner of that defeat. TBH didn't expect to win but thought we'd have given them a bit of a match. Game was over after 15 mins but the most disappointing thing was how easy we just rolled over for them. A lot of you are correct in saying the standard in Armagh club football is weaker than what it was and hence it's showing at County level but our more experienced players and better players never showed up and looked really poor. Regarding KmcG i dunno tbh...6 years is a long time with out much progression and in his defence he probably has the best players in the County at his disposal so the question you have to ask is he getting the best out of them (probably as i don't see them capable of much more TBH), we're a small County with a league that's not as good as it once was so on that basis what do you want KMcG to do? The flip side of the coin and i agree with BC on this i'd like to see Tony Mac at the helm as no1 and bring in his own staff.

As for Division 1 next season...Wow, it's going to be a tough campaign and if Sat is anything to go by we're in for a torrid time

Quote from: Angelo on November 16, 2020, 10:05:43 AM

Quote from: tonto1888 on November 15, 2020, 08:16:25 PM

Quote from: Angelo on November 15, 2020, 07:07:54 PM
Armagh lack real pace in their side, lots of quality forwards but there were occasions when Mogan and Gallagher took off and no Armagh players could live with them.

Will McGeeney stay on? Think that was the last of his 5 year term.

I don't think many could live with those two.
This was his 6th year

Maybe not but I think the lack of pace between Armagh and the top teams in the middle third is probably the biggest gap that is holding them back. If Armagh are to make the next step they need to get some serious runners in that middle third area.

Certainly don't disagree with that mate

Lads it wouldnt matter who you have in charge. Donegal are a bit ahead of Tyrone, who are a good bit ahead of the rest in Ulster.

Donegal in current form are top 4 material and I expect them to beat Cavan by at least the same margin that they beat you. In fact, it would be no surprise if they topple the Dubs.

Cant see the Donegal Tyrone dominance ending any time soon. £100k could be put to better use for the next few years if you are chasing an anglo celt, never mind a Sam. Thats not having a dig at you, just stating the reality of the current pecking order.

Quote from: bannside on November 16, 2020, 08:26:20 PM
Lads it wouldnt matter who you have in charge. Donegal are a bit ahead of Tyrone, who are a good bit ahead of the rest in Ulster.

Donegal in current form are top 4 material and I expect them to beat Cavan by at least the same margin that they beat you. In fact, it would be no surprise if they topple the Dubs.

Cant see the Donegal Tyrone dominance ending any time soon. £100k could be put to better use for the next few years if you are chasing an anglo celt, never mind a Sam. Thats not having a dig at you, just stating the reality of the current pecking order.

I agree with you in all that you say. I reckon Donegal will give the Dubs their full of it too and wouldn't be in the least bit surprised if they beat them

Actually it is a bit odd that Donegal were not stronger over the years. They are big seaboard county, not so different from Kerry, or Mayo. While Mayo have had a problem getting over the final line, they have been strong over the years. Perhaps Donegal was riddled with soccer.

Quote from: tonto1888 on November 16, 2020, 10:55:25 PM

Quote from: bannside on November 16, 2020, 08:26:20 PM
Lads it wouldnt matter who you have in charge. Donegal are a bit ahead of Tyrone, who are a good bit ahead of the rest in Ulster.

Donegal in current form are top 4 material and I expect them to beat Cavan by at least the same margin that they beat you. In fact, it would be no surprise if they topple the Dubs.

Cant see the Donegal Tyrone dominance ending any time soon. £100k could be put to better use for the next few years if you are chasing an anglo celt, never mind a Sam. Thats not having a dig at you, just stating the reality of the current pecking order.

I agree with you in all that you say. I reckon Donegal will give the Dubs their full of it too and wouldn't be in the least bit surprised if they beat them

Would also agree, the 2 most impressive displays in this years championship were both from Donegal I thought. They were excellent in both matches to date and they have serious options off the bench in the forward line. They are no longer as dependant on Murphy and look a better side than the one which won an All Ireland which was based on 'the system' rather than any great flair. Psychologically it is still a barrier for teams to beat Dublin but if Donegal can overcome that (and an empty Cooke Park should help) I think they have every chance. That match will decide the All Ireland winners this year.

Quote from: armaghniac on November 16, 2020, 11:33:37 PM
Actually it is a bit odd that Donegal were not stronger over the years. They are big seaboard county, not so different from Kerry, or Mayo. While Mayo have had a problem getting over the final line, they have been strong over the years. Perhaps Donegal was riddled with soccer.

Yes, soccer is a huge sport in Donegal.

That said, a lot of people play both. Not sure if it is the case these days, but you used to come across senior county players in Donegal club soccer all the time. Then the likes of Brendan Devenney and even Declan Bonner himself have played for Finn Harps in the League of Ireland. McEniff played LOI back in the day under a fake name! Some players who lined out for the county in their younger years ended up being lost permanently to semi-pro soccer. But that may be the case in more than just Donegal.

Overall though I think, especiallly in the noughties, we had the talent, but not the dedication, discipline or organization to do a lot better than we did.

The minefield that is Ulster probably didn't help either!

Quote from: yellowcard on November 16, 2020, 12:09:16 PM
Whilst I didn't expect Armagh to beat Donegal on Saturday, I did expect us to be at least competitive with them. However we were exposed as a mid ranking Division 2 side. It was a reality check. We don't have an abundance of talent coming through the system in recent years, in fact I can't remember the last decent underage side we produced at either minor or U-20/21 level. Armagh club football is probably also at its weakest in a generation. That in itself is very telling, so there is a definite talent deficit in terms of new players coming in. We are as likely to lose a few of our best and more experienced players in the next 2-3 years as we are to gain a couple at the other end of the age spectrum so it is not like we are definitely progressing on an upward curve. It seems to be a step forward followed by a step backwards, rinse and repeat. We don't look remotely capable of beating any of the top sides and we will approach next years division 1 campaign with some degree of trepidation.

As far as the manager is concerned, McGeeney is now managing consecutively at county level for 11 years which is remarkable in itself. He can prepare a team mentally and physically on an individual level with the best of managers. Improving them as footballers and moulding them into a cohesive unit with a clearly defined gameplan is another matter altogether. I think there does come a point where the players need a new voice or a change in direction and 6 years is a long time to spend in a job without any real tangible success. On the other hand a new manager would still have the same problems and I'm not sure there would be a huge clamour for the job. Unless McGeeney steps down I don't really see the county board replacing him but it will be a difficult task for whoever is in charge to both stay in division 1 and try and compete for a provincial title in the next few years. Those are the obvious next steps but we have to be realistic and say that they are as far away as ever.       

Would agree a lot with this, apart from the bit in bold.  You would have to question why we seem to lose concentration in big spells in games and why the discipline in tackling is so poor.  Not just against the better sides.  It's been a hallmark of this team under McGeeney for a while. Our level of physical intensity is questionable too.  I just don't see the level of intensity needed to make much progress. We have a big tendency to mark space rather than attack the ball. In giving up possession we also have a tendency to jump in and give away stupid frees in score able positions.  It doesn't suggest to me that they're focused half the time.  But none of this takes away from the fact that we just don't have enough quality and athleticism in the team.

Quote from: bannside on November 16, 2020, 08:26:20 PM
Lads it wouldnt matter who you have in charge. Donegal are a bit ahead of Tyrone, who are a good bit ahead of the rest in Ulster.

Donegal in current form are top 4 material and I expect them to beat Cavan by at least the same margin that they beat you. In fact, it would be no surprise if they topple the Dubs.

Cant see the Donegal Tyrone dominance ending any time soon. £100k could be put to better use for the next few years if you are chasing an anglo celt, never mind a Sam. Thats not having a dig at you, just stating the reality of the current pecking order.

The Dubs are off the scale.
BC above suggested 2 from Killeavy . Throw in 3 from Mullaghbawn and 4 from Cross. Can they go 0 to 60 faster than Laois and deliver a 20 metre inch perfect pass at the end? All the Dubs can. In the good old days Sam visited Meath, Galway, Armagh and Tyrone 4 years out of 5. That is impossible now.
The GAA has ruined football.

I wonder what the reaction was from the Armagh management team yesterday?

"Oh, that's what we should have done"

Indeed.  Passion and guts will always be useful in Gaelic.

Donegal might be having similar thoughts!