Not sure what the big deal is with the killing of this lion? It was old, wandered outside of the National Park, and was taken out of its misery.
Could someone explain all the moral outrage?
The same day Cecil was shot there was a Palestinian baby burned to death in his own house by Israelis. Hardly a word about it. Never under estimate the power of Jewish controlled media.....
Ach boys there was a big public conservation effort and it highlighted the issue of illegal poaching again, its goin to get a lot of air time of course, whether it was illegal or not (which it was) - the main issue is the absolute lack of morals and animal cruelty... but if you listed all the "more important" issues that weren't reported yid never be done. Aul Cecil definitely isn't the worst case considering the dung that gets reported. If I had it my way Northern Irish Politicians and their flegs, parades and point scoring wouldn't get a minute, id be glad for 24/7 Cecil
I think the internet mob pile - on is way over the top, as it always is with the "outrage" of the week. And I'm a little skeptical of the Zimbabwean government's outrage also. And no doubt this animal's "celebrity" status played a role.
At the same time, there is no excuse for what this dude, or all the other trophy hunters did and do. Even if he had killed the animal in a humane fashion, which he didn't, why are these arseholes permitted to kill endangered species. It's not wild hogs or white-tailed deer they're "hunting". And their fees are not generally going into conservation efforts either. And even if they were, there is far more money to be made in eco-tourism.
It's all the media!
Nobody gave a shit about the confederate flag until the media told us to. Nobody gave a shit about Cecil the Lion until the Media told us to.
A child gets burned to death in Palestine.....crickets.....planned parenthood are selling the parts of aborted babies.....nothing to see here.....
Ach I think ur over cynical, yes of course the media have their selective methods but at the same time if they reported every atrocity that occurred this week Emmerdale would have to be bumped back to 11clock. They give you a range of stories from across the board, by your reasoning sure yid never hear of sport or technology or whatever else... Media don't make reports based on the morality of an issue and where it stands based on the value of life... its about public interest and in this case the public cared more about Cecil than the goings on in Palestine.
And as far as "why him and not every other poacher?" - this case is more severe due to how well known the lion was and only enhanced by how this douchebag went about it, it's brought poaching and hunting and whatever else into focus and sure that's hardly a bad thing.
According to the media we care more about Animals in Africa than we do about People!
http://mic.com/articles/123461/photos-show-the-real-issues-facing-zimbabwe (http://mic.com/articles/123461/photos-show-the-real-issues-facing-zimbabwe)
Quote from: The Iceman on August 06, 2015, 03:51:33 PM
It's all the media!
Nobody gave a shit about the confederate flag until the media told us to. Nobody gave a shit about Cecil the Lion until the Media told us to.
A child gets burned to death in Palestine.....crickets.....planned parenthood are selling the parts of aborted babies.....nothing to see here.....
Exactly.... media try to dictate what we get outraged by and generally succeed.
One thing I always point back to with public moral outrage was the Ross / Brand thing on the radio with Andrew Sachs... who created the outrage - the daily mail!!
They tell you what they want to and now they try to tell people how they should feel about it.
Mind control!
i agree the media control everything, and agree that people starving to death gets less coverage than a lion and that is very wrong. without a doubt. its something else celebs can tweet about until something else comes up next week.
but at the same time, when something like this goes viral, its no harm that it might help put a stop to it, as it is wrong too. killing these amazing endangered animals for fun should not be happening.
i would point out that he didnt just wander out of a national park he was lured out!
for anyone interested there is a brilliant documentary by louis theroux called "african hunting holiday".
it shows how wrong it is, in some cases, but also another side of it that shows that it is actually a good thing for certain animals believe it or not!
In other news:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CLWSeCrUwAAPzzl.jpg)
(PS Jericho is fine (http://www.buzzfeed.com/davidmack/the-lion-king-but-scar-is-a-good-guy#.rbpJE4OBd))
I shot (with my Canon EOS Rebel) these lovely looking brothers in Africa last October
(http://i.imgur.com/xGunOuy.jpg)
now thats how you shoot lions! :D
great photo. the guy on the left is 'Scar' from the Lion King, has the scar under his left eye and all!! ;D
Quote from: The Iceman on August 06, 2015, 03:51:33 PM
It's all the media!
Nobody gave a shit about the confederate flag until the media told us to. Nobody gave a shit about Cecil the Lion until the Media told us to.
A child gets burned to death in Palestine.....crickets.....planned parenthood are selling the parts of aborted babies.....nothing to see here.....
The issue with the media is that they quickly move on to the next story, NOT that they hype up a single story per se. For something like the confederate flag, it was always going to take some tragedy to kickstart the movement. Same with gun control. Or environmental legislation. Change always needs a poster child.
You could argue that these selectively edited Planned Parenthood videos are designed to do just that. (And it has been all over the news the last three weeks, but the hype about what is supposedly in the videos has not panned out, hence it fading - I've yet to see anything to suggest they are selling body parts)
Quote from: deiseach on August 06, 2015, 05:30:08 PM
In other news:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CLWSeCrUwAAPzzl.jpg)
(PS Jericho is fine (http://www.buzzfeed.com/davidmack/the-lion-king-but-scar-is-a-good-guy#.rbpJE4OBd))
;D
Quote from: deiseach on August 06, 2015, 05:30:08 PM
In other news:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CLWSeCrUwAAPzzl.jpg)
(PS Jericho is fine (http://www.buzzfeed.com/davidmack/the-lion-king-but-scar-is-a-good-guy#.rbpJE4OBd))
It is all very fine for you so called liberals to snigger at this tweet, but surely we have to be all inclusive in these modern times and not take the chance of hurting Jericho's feelings if he were a liger or a tigon or whatever?
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl
I shot (with my Canon EOS Rebel) these lovely looking brothers in Africa last October
Great pic, Gabriel.
Quote from: J70 on August 06, 2015, 06:24:14 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on August 06, 2015, 03:51:33 PM
It's all the media!
Nobody gave a shit about the confederate flag until the media told us to. Nobody gave a shit about Cecil the Lion until the Media told us to.
A child gets burned to death in Palestine.....crickets.....planned parenthood are selling the parts of aborted babies.....nothing to see here.....
The issue with the media is that they quickly move on to the next story, NOT that they hype up a single story per se. For something like the confederate flag, it was always going to take some tragedy to kickstart the movement. Same with gun control. Or environmental legislation. Change always needs a poster child.
You could argue that these selectively edited Planned Parenthood videos are designed to do just that. (And it has been all over the news the last three weeks, but the hype about what is supposedly in the videos has not panned out, hence it fading - I've yet to see anything to suggest they are selling body parts)
you have yet to see it because it isn't being reported.The judge who blocked the investigators from pursuing the investigation turned out to be the husband of a pro-abortion campaigner!
Since the videos were released (shocked you contest the content and what they point out) several states have scapped their funding -states like Florida have investigated Planned Parenthood and discovered they were performing illegal late term abortions and have fined them. They also have fined them for not keeping a log (no evidence) of how they have disposed od the body parts....
You downplay all these things as just another story but they arent - 19 women executed by ISIS for not having sex with the soldiers - Christian executed every week - Zimbabwe people less in need than a Lion but we're more focused on what the media says is important this week - its rarely real news - we will be watering crops with Gatorade soon - electrolytes!
Quote from: omaghjoe on August 06, 2015, 07:21:54 AM
Not sure what the big deal is with the killing of this lion? It was old, wandered outside of the National Park, and was taken out of its misery.
Could someone explain all the moral outrage?
That is not true, and is a stupid statement
Quote from: GJL on August 06, 2015, 08:00:54 AM
The same day Cecil was shot there was a Palestinian baby burned to death in his own house by Israelis. Hardly a word about it. Never under estimate the power of Jewish controlled media.....
That is not true, and is a stupid statement
Quote from: The Iceman on August 06, 2015, 03:51:33 PM
It's all the media!
Nobody gave a shit about the confederate flag until the media told us to. Nobody gave a shit about Cecil the Lion until the Media told us to.
A child gets burned to death in Palestine.....crickets.....planned parenthood are selling the parts of aborted babies.....nothing to see here.....
First sentence, not true. Plenty of valid opinions on the death of this lion, the baby in palestine - and I note you aren't against perpetuating the planned parenthood "spin" story. Plenty of "media telling people how to feel" about that. They aren't even reporting the entire truth of the PP story.
Quote from: J70 on August 06, 2015, 02:26:54 PM
I think the internet mob pile - on is way over the top, as it always is with the "outrage" of the week. And I'm a little skeptical of the Zimbabwean government's outrage also. And no doubt this animal's "celebrity" status played a role.
At the same time, there is no excuse for what this dude, or all the other trophy hunters did and do. Even if he had killed the animal in a humane fashion, which he didn't, why are these arseholes permitted to kill endangered species. It's not wild hogs or white-tailed deer they're "hunting". And their fees are not generally going into conservation efforts either. And even if they were, there is far more money to be made in eco-tourism.
Finally a true statement. The response to the killing of the Lion has been some of the stupidest I've seen. People wanting to kill the Dentist, castrate the dentist. Not to mention the "1 Lion gets killed, no one mentions (insert Palestinian baby, aborted tissues for research etc.. etc...)
This Lion story has deflated what little hope I had for the general population of America. Dumb as a box of rocks.
Quote from: The Iceman on August 06, 2015, 07:09:57 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 06, 2015, 06:24:14 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on August 06, 2015, 03:51:33 PM
It's all the media!
Nobody gave a shit about the confederate flag until the media told us to. Nobody gave a shit about Cecil the Lion until the Media told us to.
A child gets burned to death in Palestine.....crickets.....planned parenthood are selling the parts of aborted babies.....nothing to see here.....
The issue with the media is that they quickly move on to the next story, NOT that they hype up a single story per se. For something like the confederate flag, it was always going to take some tragedy to kickstart the movement. Same with gun control. Or environmental legislation. Change always needs a poster child.
You could argue that these selectively edited Planned Parenthood videos are designed to do just that. (And it has been all over the news the last three weeks, but the hype about what is supposedly in the videos has not panned out, hence it fading - I've yet to see anything to suggest they are selling body parts)
you have yet to see it because it isn't being reported.The judge who blocked the investigators from pursuing the investigation turned out to be the husband of a pro-abortion campaigner!
Since the videos were released (shocked you contest the content and what they point out) several states have scapped their funding -states like Florida have investigated Planned Parenthood and discovered they were performing illegal late term abortions and have fined them. They also have fined them for not keeping a log (no evidence) of how they have disposed od the body parts....
You downplay all these things as just another story but they arent - 19 women executed by ISIS for not having sex with the soldiers - Christian executed every week - Zimbabwe people less in need than a Lion but we're more focused on what the media says is important this week - its rarely real news - we will be watering crops with Gatorade soon - electrolytes!
If they are being blocked, why have five videos been released, including one earlier this very week?? And I even heard on an NPR report the word "selling " used, as if it were fact. Yet nothing in the five films so far supports that. All I can see/hear are discussions about covering costs, with no profit discussed anywhere. Until evidence of that turns up, this looks like nothing more than trumped up charges and a dishonest right wing capitalizing on it.
I wouldn't mind, but objecting to abortion and the use of foetal tissue for research is something that a fair minded person could make a strong, honest, argument for. Why not do it on those terms, instead of the usual intellectually dishonest bullshit you get from the religious right?
And what does states pulling funding have to do with it? All it proves is that this issue is a political football, which we already knew. As for Florida, those centers got done for second term abortions without the proper license. Don't see ANYTHING about selling foetal remains.
And Iceman, on your second point, don't you think the media hype reflects what interests people? They're into ratings. The lion story arose out a viral internet story. Same as Trayvon Martin and Eric Garner. When ISIS kills another American, then the public will care. Same as this time next week, the average American won't give a shit about endangered wildlife, especially if charismatic species are not involved. And in a few weeks no one will give a shit about the Planned Parenthood "outrage" because the politicians and talk radio will have milked it dry and moved on.
Quote from: Puckoon on August 06, 2015, 07:13:30 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on August 06, 2015, 07:21:54 AM
Not sure what the big deal is with the killing of this lion? It was old, wandered outside of the National Park, and was taken out of its misery.
Could someone explain all the moral outrage?
That is not true, and is a stupid statement
Eh? Whats not true about it?
Quote from: omaghjoe on August 06, 2015, 08:40:27 PM
Quote from: Puckoon on August 06, 2015, 07:13:30 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on August 06, 2015, 07:21:54 AM
Not sure what the big deal is with the killing of this lion? It was old, wandered outside of the National Park, and was taken out of its misery.
Could someone explain all the moral outrage?
That is not true, and is a stupid statement
Eh? Whats not true about it?
Cecil, the departed feline, was more middle aged than old. As the prime lion of the pride he must have been in good shape. He was lured out of the park for the purposes of shooting him.
There is a lot of hype about this, to be sure. But the general point is that mutiple people like Gabriel Hurl will visit these places and photograph wildlife, bringing money into the country. Poachers endanger this.
There is a lot of hype about this, to be sure. But the general point is that mutiple people like Gabriel Hurl will visit these places and photograph wildlife, bringing money into the country. Poachers endanger this.
[/quote]
Amen to that!
Quote from: armaghniac on August 06, 2015, 08:48:05 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on August 06, 2015, 08:40:27 PM
Quote from: Puckoon on August 06, 2015, 07:13:30 PM
Quote from: omaghjoe on August 06, 2015, 07:21:54 AM
Not sure what the big deal is with the killing of this lion? It was old, wandered outside of the National Park, and was taken out of its misery.
Could someone explain all the moral outrage?
That is not true, and is a stupid statement
Eh? Whats not true about it?
Cecil, the departed feline, was more middle aged than old. As the prime lion of the pride he must have been in good shape. He was lured out of the park for the purposes of shooting him.
There is a lot of hype about this, to be sure. But the general point is that mutiple people like Gabriel Hurl will visit these places and photograph wildlife, bringing money into the country. Poachers endanger this.
He was 13, if he was unlucky enough he would have another year left in which he would likely starve or die from disease or fight wounds.
If he lured out that's fair enuff shouldnt have happened, but after initial reports that story seems to be on the wane, plus it will be impossible to prove.
What we know for sure is that he wandered outside of the park and was shot with a legal permit.
The outrage over this esp on Facebook was completely out of proportion. Yes it was wrong to kill the lion and your man the dentist should rightly be punished for it but people were trying to argue this lions life was equilivent to that of a human. Get real FFS.
Quote from: omaghjoe on August 06, 2015, 09:07:11 PMIf he lured out that's fair enuff shouldnt have happened, but after initial reports that story seems to be on the wane, plus it will be impossible to prove.
What we know for sure is that he wandered outside of the park and was shot with a legal permit.
Lured or wandered? Make your mind up. Also why did the fellas try to destroy the GPS tracking device on him?
Quote from: Gabriel_Hurl on August 06, 2015, 09:48:16 PM
Lured or wandered? Make your mind up.
Definitely wandered, but also may have been lured, dont know for sure.
Quote
Also why did the fellas try to destroy the GPS tracking device on him?
Didn't even know that they did. I don't know, what's your opinion?
My opinion is Lion bars are tasty
Quote from: J70 on August 06, 2015, 07:27:15 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on August 06, 2015, 07:09:57 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 06, 2015, 06:24:14 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on August 06, 2015, 03:51:33 PM
It's all the media!
Nobody gave a shit about the confederate flag until the media told us to. Nobody gave a shit about Cecil the Lion until the Media told us to.
A child gets burned to death in Palestine.....crickets.....planned parenthood are selling the parts of aborted babies.....nothing to see here.....
The issue with the media is that they quickly move on to the next story, NOT that they hype up a single story per se. For something like the confederate flag, it was always going to take some tragedy to kickstart the movement. Same with gun control. Or environmental legislation. Change always needs a poster child.
You could argue that these selectively edited Planned Parenthood videos are designed to do just that. (And it has been all over the news the last three weeks, but the hype about what is supposedly in the videos has not panned out, hence it fading - I've yet to see anything to suggest they are selling body parts)
you have yet to see it because it isn't being reported.The judge who blocked the investigators from pursuing the investigation turned out to be the husband of a pro-abortion campaigner!
Since the videos were released (shocked you contest the content and what they point out) several states have scapped their funding -states like Florida have investigated Planned Parenthood and discovered they were performing illegal late term abortions and have fined them. They also have fined them for not keeping a log (no evidence) of how they have disposed od the body parts....
You downplay all these things as just another story but they arent - 19 women executed by ISIS for not having sex with the soldiers - Christian executed every week - Zimbabwe people less in need than a Lion but we're more focused on what the media says is important this week - its rarely real news - we will be watering crops with Gatorade soon - electrolytes!
If they are being blocked, why have five videos been released, including one earlier this very week?? And I even heard on an NPR report the word "selling " used, as if it were fact. Yet nothing in the five films so far supports that. All I can see/hear are discussions about covering costs, with no profit discussed anywhere. Until evidence of that turns up, this looks like nothing more than trumped up charges and a dishonest right wing capitalizing on it.
I wouldn't mind, but objecting to abortion and the use of foetal tissue for research is something that a fair minded person could make a strong, honest, argument for. Why not do it on those terms, instead of the usual intellectually dishonest bullshit you get from the religious right?
And what does states pulling funding have to do with it? All it proves is that this issue is a political football, which we already knew. As for Florida, those centers got done for second term abortions without the proper license. Don't see ANYTHING about selling foetal remains.
An injunction of sorts was placed after 4 videos and the 5th one was released despite that.
I find it hard to understand your view and defense of Planned Parenthood in light of the videos. Its clear from the multiple conversations that Planned Parenthood are offering organs and $100 per specimen was mentioned multiple times. What more evidence do you need that some form of "selling: has and is occurring? Yes Planned Parenthood can dance around terms but it's a donate $10 and get a free car-wash deal.....
A fair minded person could make an argument for abortion and the "donation" of organs???? Have you seen an abortion happen? Do you know what tools are used? Can you begin to imagine what is going on when a baby is being held in position so as not to damage a heart, a liver or a kidney while it is being harvested? Can you imagine what it means to abort a baby "whole" ? The 5th video talks about it specifically!
"If we alter our process, and we are able to obtain intact fetal cadavers, we can make it part of the budget that any dissections are this, and splitting the specimens into different shipments is this. It's all just a matter of line items."I'm not sure where you are going with this J70?
Quote from: hardstation on August 06, 2015, 10:33:52 PM
Lions kill humans all the time, the b**tards.
But at least they generally then eat them, not take pictures and put them on Facebook.
Quote from: The Iceman on August 06, 2015, 10:28:57 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 06, 2015, 07:27:15 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on August 06, 2015, 07:09:57 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 06, 2015, 06:24:14 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on August 06, 2015, 03:51:33 PM
It's all the media!
Nobody gave a shit about the confederate flag until the media told us to. Nobody gave a shit about Cecil the Lion until the Media told us to.
A child gets burned to death in Palestine.....crickets.....planned parenthood are selling the parts of aborted babies.....nothing to see here.....
The issue with the media is that they quickly move on to the next story, NOT that they hype up a single story per se. For something like the confederate flag, it was always going to take some tragedy to kickstart the movement. Same with gun control. Or environmental legislation. Change always needs a poster child.
You could argue that these selectively edited Planned Parenthood videos are designed to do just that. (And it has been all over the news the last three weeks, but the hype about what is supposedly in the videos has not panned out, hence it fading - I've yet to see anything to suggest they are selling body parts)
you have yet to see it because it isn't being reported.The judge who blocked the investigators from pursuing the investigation turned out to be the husband of a pro-abortion campaigner!
Since the videos were released (shocked you contest the content and what they point out) several states have scapped their funding -states like Florida have investigated Planned Parenthood and discovered they were performing illegal late term abortions and have fined them. They also have fined them for not keeping a log (no evidence) of how they have disposed od the body parts....
You downplay all these things as just another story but they arent - 19 women executed by ISIS for not having sex with the soldiers - Christian executed every week - Zimbabwe people less in need than a Lion but we're more focused on what the media says is important this week - its rarely real news - we will be watering crops with Gatorade soon - electrolytes!
If they are being blocked, why have five videos been released, including one earlier this very week?? And I even heard on an NPR report the word "selling " used, as if it were fact. Yet nothing in the five films so far supports that. All I can see/hear are discussions about covering costs, with no profit discussed anywhere. Until evidence of that turns up, this looks like nothing more than trumped up charges and a dishonest right wing capitalizing on it.
I wouldn't mind, but objecting to abortion and the use of foetal tissue for research is something that a fair minded person could make a strong, honest, argument for. Why not do it on those terms, instead of the usual intellectually dishonest bullshit you get from the religious right?
And what does states pulling funding have to do with it? All it proves is that this issue is a political football, which we already knew. As for Florida, those centers got done for second term abortions without the proper license. Don't see ANYTHING about selling foetal remains.
An injunction of sorts was placed after 4 videos and the 5th one was released despite that.
I find it hard to understand your view and defense of Planned Parenthood in light of the videos. Its clear from the multiple conversations that Planned Parenthood are offering organs and $100 per specimen was mentioned multiple times. What more evidence do you need that some form of "selling: has and is occurring? Yes Planned Parenthood can dance around terms but it's a donate $10 and get a free car-wash deal.....
A fair minded person could make an argument for abortion and the "donation" of organs???? Have you seen an abortion happen? Do you know what tools are used? Can you begin to imagine what is going on when a baby is being held in position so as not to damage a heart, a liver or a kidney while it is being harvested? Can you imagine what it means to abort a baby "whole" ? The 5th video talks about it specifically!
"If we alter our process, and we are able to obtain intact fetal cadavers, we can make it part of the budget that any dissections are this, and splitting the specimens into different shipments is this. It's all just a matter of line items."
I'm not sure where you are going with this J70?
1. I did not argue FOR abortion or use of foetal tissue for research. Read it again. I thought it was clear that I saying a legitimate argument can be made without the hype and misrepresentation.
2. Have you no clue about tissue preservation and shipping costs and so on when it comes to biological specimens?
3.You are the one who introduced the topic.
Quote from: hardstation on August 06, 2015, 10:45:25 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on August 06, 2015, 10:42:03 PM
Quote from: hardstation on August 06, 2015, 10:33:52 PM
Lions kill humans all the time, the b**tards.
But at least they generally then eat them, not take pictures and put them on Facebook.
Fair point. Make that inconsiderate dentist eat the buckin lion and be done.
Dentists drill people and pull out their teeth. What would you suggest for them?
Believe me, $100 for a "specimen" of any type of human sample is minimally covering cost. Considering you'll pay up to $1000 for a 10 ml vial of monkey blood, or $31,000 for a 120ml vial of rabbit vitreous humor - If Planned Parenthood were in business to "sell fetal tissues", they are sucking big time. FFS a World Courier overnight biologically packaged shipment will run you anywhere from $500 to $2,500 depending on destination.
Hate them because you don't agree with abortion. Don't buy into a set up.
Quote from: Puckoon on August 06, 2015, 11:55:10 PM
Believe me, $100 for a "specimen" of any type of human sample is minimally covering cost. Considering you'll pay up to $1000 for a 10 ml vial of monkey blood, or $31,000 for a 120ml vial of rabbit vitreous humor - If Planned Parenthood were in business to "sell fetal tissues", they are sucking big time. FFS a World Courier overnight biologically packaged shipment will run you anywhere from $500 to $2,500 depending on destination.
Hate them because you don't agree with abortion. Don't buy into a set up.
I don't think they are in business to sell baby parts - I think it's a side income. Like popcorn at movie theaters. With all due respect I don't think you called young Puck a fetus while she was in her Mother's womb so lets use the word "baby" and give the child something here fair enough?
They are a manipulative outfit. They talk women in to abortions. They convince women they don't have an option. I've sat and listened to some women who went through it with them - unfortunately some of them went through with it and thankfully others didn't but Planned Parenthood are not the Girl Scouts (even thought they sponsor them).....
The company that is collecting "specimens" from Planned Parenthood would surely sell it on to research labs/companies at a profit? I highly doubt the man who owns the monkeys from which the blood is extracted is being paid $1000? Raw materials to finished products, there is a mark up all along the way.
I'm not buying in to a set up - I know who PP. Please don't buy in to a cover up.
Quote from: The Iceman on August 07, 2015, 12:24:26 AM
Quote from: Puckoon on August 06, 2015, 11:55:10 PM
Believe me, $100 for a "specimen" of any type of human sample is minimally covering cost. Considering you'll pay up to $1000 for a 10 ml vial of monkey blood, or $31,000 for a 120ml vial of rabbit vitreous humor - If Planned Parenthood were in business to "sell fetal tissues", they are sucking big time. FFS a World Courier overnight biologically packaged shipment will run you anywhere from $500 to $2,500 depending on destination.
Hate them because you don't agree with abortion. Don't buy into a set up.
I don't think they are in business to sell baby parts - I think it's a side income. Like popcorn at movie theaters. With all due respect I don't think you called young Puck a fetus while she was in her Mother's womb so lets use the word "baby" and give the child something here fair enough?
They are a manipulative outfit. They talk women in to abortions. They convince women they don't have an option. I've sat and listened to some women who went through it with them - unfortunately some of them went through with it and thankfully others didn't but Planned Parenthood are not the Girl Scouts (even thought they sponsor them).....
The company that is collecting "specimens" from Planned Parenthood would surely sell it on to research labs/companies at a profit? I highly doubt the man who owns the monkeys from which the blood is extracted is being paid $1000? Raw materials to finished products, there is a mark up all along the way.
I'm not buying in to a set up - I know who PP. Please don't buy in to a cover up.
But again, there is no proof of any "income". Just covering costs. Maybe it will be there in the remaining videos, but I doubt it.
And the middle man stuff is a separate issue to PP. If there is something illegal going on there, then of course it should be investigated. Is the middle man supposed to be non-profit? If the US religious right has a problem with this, then I will await their objections to the billion-dollar weapons and war industry.
As for those you know who've been through it, in what context did you hear their stories? How many?
If the funding is pulled for them, I'd love to know where all these low-income Medicaid women are going to go for their reproductive healthcare (and yes, the vast majority of PP's work is routine day-to-day womens' health stuff, same as the Well Women clinic or what have you at home). The Republicans are certainly going to do nothing for them.
On your earlier quote Iceman:
"If we alter our process, and we are able to obtain intact fetal cadavers, we can make it part of the budget that any dissections are this, and splitting the specimens into different shipments is this. It's all just a matter of line items."
"no alteration of the timing, method, or procedures used to terminate the pregnancy was made solely for the purposes of obtaining the tissue"
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/42/289g-1 (https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/42/289g-1)
That does appear to be illegal, and it should be investigated.
So that may be a black mark against PP from those videos, assuming it wasn't just this woman talking and nothing more.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/08/06/an-unarmed-white-teen-was-shot-dead-by-police-his-family-asks-where-is-the-outrage/?postshare=5691438959904493 (http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/08/06/an-unarmed-white-teen-was-shot-dead-by-police-his-family-asks-where-is-the-outrage/?postshare=5691438959904493)
I think this is a fairly good example of the media bias. If this lad was black he would be all over the news. Unarmed teen shot while his girlfriend ate ice cream in the car beside him....
Not part of the agenda the Media wants us to hear so it's buried somewhere....
Quote from: The Iceman on August 07, 2015, 05:28:11 PM
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/08/06/an-unarmed-white-teen-was-shot-dead-by-police-his-family-asks-where-is-the-outrage/?postshare=5691438959904493 (http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/08/06/an-unarmed-white-teen-was-shot-dead-by-police-his-family-asks-where-is-the-outrage/?postshare=5691438959904493)
I think this is a fairly good example of the media bias. If this lad was black he would be all over the news. Unarmed teen shot while his girlfriend ate ice cream in the car beside him....
Not part of the agenda the Media wants us to hear so it's buried somewhere....
Is the issue not the frequency with which it happens? Are whites routinely targeted by police like minorities, especially blacks are? I've never been stopped and frisked in NYC. I guarantee you if I was black, I would have been, probably at least several times. I don't think anyone has ever said that white people are never wrongly killed or assaulted by police. Its an issue of proportion.
Why do we seem to have only one level of outage?
We can jump to this level pretty quickly, but the triggers can be unbelievably varied.
For example, reading about the likes of ISIS, the latest child victim of an Israeli attack, The Famine or Clerical Child abuse in Ireland or The Holocaust can invoke strong feelings, and understandably so.
But then Theiry Henry's handball, that incident against <insert enemy county> or Ian Botham calling Australians 'convicts' can all invoke exactly the same outpouring of anger. Maybe even more so.
But it is hardly the same thing.
Then further, your grandaunt, who you see once a year, can be completely outraged that you weren't invited to the wedding of a cousin you have never met. She will feel every bit as strongly as anyone reacting to any of the above events. We all know equivalents of this type of event and the media are hardly to blame here.
Why is it that we can only be 'outraged' and not say 5% outraged or 25% outraged?
Quote from: J70 on August 07, 2015, 05:35:38 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on August 07, 2015, 05:28:11 PM
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/08/06/an-unarmed-white-teen-was-shot-dead-by-police-his-family-asks-where-is-the-outrage/?postshare=5691438959904493 (http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/08/06/an-unarmed-white-teen-was-shot-dead-by-police-his-family-asks-where-is-the-outrage/?postshare=5691438959904493)
I think this is a fairly good example of the media bias. If this lad was black he would be all over the news. Unarmed teen shot while his girlfriend ate ice cream in the car beside him....
Not part of the agenda the Media wants us to hear so it's buried somewhere....
Is the issue not the frequency with which it happens? Are whites routinely targeted by police like minorities, especially blacks are? I've never been stopped and frisked in NYC. I guarantee you if I was black, I would have been, probably at least several times. I don't think anyone has ever said that white people are never wrongly killed or assaulted by police. Its an issue of proportion.
Well having considered it again this highlights the reluctance maybe of the media to showcase more police brutality? I'm very torn on it all.
There's definitely bias from the police towards black people. No doubt. But there is some crazy situations where your life is or could be on the line and calls have to be made. I don't know given the circumstances which I would choose. Shoot or be shot... Actually I do know - I would shoot, selfishly, I would shoot. I'm not saying all of these cases are cut and dry and the officer had every right to shoot.
In the case of this young lad it was foolish to drive at a cop. The cop could have jumped - responding with lethal force wasn't the answer....
But it isn't being showcased at the minute as it doesn't fit into the media's agenda. Living in different parts of the country you can see a real bias. In Seattle everything is pro gay. No mention of Planned Parenthood, or anything moderately religious on the news. Unless its misquoting Pope Francis.... nothing of real note but the new rainbow crosswalks we had installed by the gay mayor for tens of thousands of dollars a pop....
Quote from: muppet on August 07, 2015, 07:24:35 PM
Why do we seem to have only one level of outage?
We can jump to this level pretty quickly, but the triggers can be unbelievably varied.
For example, reading about the likes of ISIS, the latest child victim of an Israeli attack, The Famine or Clerical Child abuse in Ireland or The Holocaust can invoke strong feelings, and understandably so.
But then Theiry Henry's handball, that incident against <insert enemy county> or Ian Botham calling Australians 'convicts' can all invoke exactly the same outpouring of anger. Maybe even more so.
But it is hardly the same thing.
Then further, your grandaunt, who you see once a year, can be completely outraged that you weren't invited to the wedding of a cousin you have never met. She will feel every bit as strongly as anyone reacting to any of the above events. We all know equivalents of this type of event and the media are hardly to blame here.
Why is it that we can only be 'outraged' and not say 5% outraged or 25% outraged?
Ha your right muppet, its a good question.
Is it something to do with showing a level of support and solidarity with the cause, person? And the notion that if you are showing more visible audible outrage you are giving more support?
Strange notion to have, considering we are supposed to live in a democracy where every person has the same level of contribution to decision making.
Why do people keep bringing unrelated event into a discussion? What about...
Like if I went into the doctors because I have piles. The doctor wouldn't just dismiss me because someone earlier in the day had cancer.
Quote from: dferg on August 07, 2015, 10:20:41 PM
Why do people keep bringing unrelated event into a discussion? What about...
Like if I went into the doctors because I have piles. The doctor wouldn't just dismiss me because someone earlier in the day had cancer.
How long have you had piles?
Quote from: dferg on August 07, 2015, 10:20:41 PM
Why do people keep bringing unrelated event into a discussion? What about...
Like if I went into the doctors because I have piles. The doctor wouldn't just dismiss me because someone earlier in the day had cancer.
LOL welcome to GAAboard dferg!
You have a few masters of it in this thread (including myself of course!) I recently become entangled in a debate about the French Royalty's relationship to the Louvre, in the United Ireland thread :D
When it happens most other posters ignore it, I dont have the foggiest what those two are waffling about TBH, and just pass over their posts
However when I do I fall into the trap and become embroiled in the weirdest tangents with people, I sometimes believe that others are reading it, but in actual fact they don't give a hoot. And even tho I try to be fair, it inevitability it just becomes me and my adversary in an ego joust!
Quote from: muppet on August 07, 2015, 10:24:12 PM
Quote from: dferg on August 07, 2015, 10:20:41 PM
Why do people keep bringing unrelated event into a discussion? What about...
Like if I went into the doctors because I have piles. The doctor wouldn't just dismiss me because someone earlier in the day had cancer.
How long have you had piles?
I've had them for a while but because of the black death, the 3 year drought in East Africa and Colm O'Neill's recurring cruciate injuries I've been reluctant to bring it up.
Quote from: dferg on August 07, 2015, 10:40:59 PM
Quote from: muppet on August 07, 2015, 10:24:12 PM
Quote from: dferg on August 07, 2015, 10:20:41 PM
Why do people keep bringing unrelated event into a discussion? What about...
Like if I went into the doctors because I have piles. The doctor wouldn't just dismiss me because someone earlier in the day had cancer.
How long have you had piles?
I've had them for a while but because of the black death, the 3 year drought in East Africa and Colm O'Neill's recurring cruciate injuries I've been reluctant to bring it up.
Bummer.
Quote from: The Iceman on August 07, 2015, 08:32:40 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 07, 2015, 05:35:38 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on August 07, 2015, 05:28:11 PM
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/08/06/an-unarmed-white-teen-was-shot-dead-by-police-his-family-asks-where-is-the-outrage/?postshare=5691438959904493 (http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/08/06/an-unarmed-white-teen-was-shot-dead-by-police-his-family-asks-where-is-the-outrage/?postshare=5691438959904493)
I think this is a fairly good example of the media bias. If this lad was black he would be all over the news. Unarmed teen shot while his girlfriend ate ice cream in the car beside him....
Not part of the agenda the Media wants us to hear so it's buried somewhere....
Is the issue not the frequency with which it happens? Are whites routinely targeted by police like minorities, especially blacks are? I've never been stopped and frisked in NYC. I guarantee you if I was black, I would have been, probably at least several times. I don't think anyone has ever said that white people are never wrongly killed or assaulted by police. Its an issue of proportion.
Well having considered it again this highlights the reluctance maybe of the media to showcase more police brutality? I'm very torn on it all.
There's definitely bias from the police towards black people. No doubt. But there is some crazy situations where your life is or could be on the line and calls have to be made. I don't know given the circumstances which I would choose. Shoot or be shot... Actually I do know - I would shoot, selfishly, I would shoot. I'm not saying all of these cases are cut and dry and the officer had every right to shoot.
In the case of this young lad it was foolish to drive at a cop. The cop could have jumped - responding with lethal force wasn't the answer....
But it isn't being showcased at the minute as it doesn't fit into the media's agenda. Living in different parts of the country you can see a real bias. In Seattle everything is pro gay. No mention of Planned Parenthood, or anything moderately religious on the news. Unless its misquoting Pope Francis.... nothing of real note but the new rainbow crosswalks we had installed by the gay mayor for tens of thousands of dollars a pop....
Its been covered by the NY Times and the WP, among numerous others. Hardly being ignored. And as the Times story comments, part of the lack of impact has to do with the lack of video footage, like in the Garner and several of the other high profile black killings.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/08/us/questions-arise-after-police-kill-a-white-teenager-zachary-hammond.html?_r=0 (http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/08/us/questions-arise-after-police-kill-a-white-teenager-zachary-hammond.html?_r=0)
As for Seattle, just what religious issues do you feel should be making the news? And what is wrong with pro-gay coverage? Are you looking for anti-gay stories or editorializing? And the Pope gets tonnes of coverage, unless you're saying that his views on climate change, divorcees, poverty and so on are being misrepresented?
Quote from: J70 on August 08, 2015, 12:18:22 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on August 07, 2015, 08:32:40 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 07, 2015, 05:35:38 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on August 07, 2015, 05:28:11 PM
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/08/06/an-unarmed-white-teen-was-shot-dead-by-police-his-family-asks-where-is-the-outrage/?postshare=5691438959904493 (http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/08/06/an-unarmed-white-teen-was-shot-dead-by-police-his-family-asks-where-is-the-outrage/?postshare=5691438959904493)
I think this is a fairly good example of the media bias. If this lad was black he would be all over the news. Unarmed teen shot while his girlfriend ate ice cream in the car beside him....
Not part of the agenda the Media wants us to hear so it's buried somewhere....
Is the issue not the frequency with which it happens? Are whites routinely targeted by police like minorities, especially blacks are? I've never been stopped and frisked in NYC. I guarantee you if I was black, I would have been, probably at least several times. I don't think anyone has ever said that white people are never wrongly killed or assaulted by police. Its an issue of proportion.
Well having considered it again this highlights the reluctance maybe of the media to showcase more police brutality? I'm very torn on it all.
There's definitely bias from the police towards black people. No doubt. But there is some crazy situations where your life is or could be on the line and calls have to be made. I don't know given the circumstances which I would choose. Shoot or be shot... Actually I do know - I would shoot, selfishly, I would shoot. I'm not saying all of these cases are cut and dry and the officer had every right to shoot.
In the case of this young lad it was foolish to drive at a cop. The cop could have jumped - responding with lethal force wasn't the answer....
But it isn't being showcased at the minute as it doesn't fit into the media's agenda. Living in different parts of the country you can see a real bias. In Seattle everything is pro gay. No mention of Planned Parenthood, or anything moderately religious on the news. Unless its misquoting Pope Francis.... nothing of real note but the new rainbow crosswalks we had installed by the gay mayor for tens of thousands of dollars a pop....
Its been covered by the NY Times and the WP, among numerous others. Hardly being ignored. And as the Times story comments, part of the lack of impact has to do with the lack of video footage, like in the Garner and several of the other high profile black killings.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/08/us/questions-arise-after-police-kill-a-white-teenager-zachary-hammond.html?_r=0 (http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/08/us/questions-arise-after-police-kill-a-white-teenager-zachary-hammond.html?_r=0)
As for Seattle, just what religious issues do you feel should be making the news? And what is wrong with pro-gay coverage? Are you looking for anti-gay stories or editorializing? And the Pope gets tonnes of coverage, unless you're saying that his views on climate change, divorcees, poverty and so on are being misrepresented?
What the f**k are they doing talking about peoples sexuality? I dont give two shites as long as children are not involved!
I am offically sick of that Jenner f**ker, I am delighted his show is bombing, I am disgusted at him winning an award for bravery, I am tired of people talking about trannys, I dont want to hear straight people talking about sex let alone gay people.
in general this type of hunter is a coward, Probably feels inadequate in life or on a power trip in a high paid job, Thinks he a hunter trapping an animal in a reserve, knowing a animal has no real defence against him, how he fair against a lion without his gun, not long i fancy. All these wannabe hunters could do a tour of Iraq. See how their hunting skills fair then, Oh that right the opposition is on a level plain and actually shoots back at you!"
Quote from: J70 on August 08, 2015, 12:18:22 PM
Its been covered by the NY Times and the WP, among numerous others. Hardly being ignored. And as the Times story comments, part of the lack of impact has to do with the lack of video footage, like in the Garner and several of the other high profile black killings.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/08/us/questions-arise-after-police-kill-a-white-teenager-zachary-hammond.html?_r=0 (http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/08/us/questions-arise-after-police-kill-a-white-teenager-zachary-hammond.html?_r=0)
As for Seattle, just what religious issues do you feel should be making the news? And what is wrong with pro-gay coverage? Are you looking for anti-gay stories or editorializing? And the Pope gets tonnes of coverage, unless you're saying that his views on climate change, divorcees, poverty and so on are being misrepresented?
I wasn't asking for anything religious just pointing out the bias in different parts of the country. Having lived on the East coast and now in the PNW there is a vast difference. Seattle especially focuses on gay rights, gay pride, the gay mayor, the gay cake case, the rainbow crosswalks.... its mad. There is rarely anything Christian related - regardless if there is a story or not.... that was my point.
Quote from: The Iceman on August 09, 2015, 04:30:36 AM
I wasn't asking for anything religious just pointing out the bias in different parts of the country. Having lived on the East coast and now in the PNW there is a vast difference. Seattle especially focuses on gay rights, gay pride, the gay mayor, the gay cake case, the rainbow crosswalks.... its mad. There is rarely anything Christian related - regardless if there is a story or not.... that was my point.
The kind of thing makes you demented
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3050776/Plans-rainbow-coloured-zebra-crossing-support-gay-rights-abandoned-fears-cause-hallucinations-dementia-sufferers.html
In general, road markings shouldn't be fiddled with for trival reasons, if they are in black and white it is becuase that makes them easier to see, not a political statement.
Quote from: The Iceman on August 09, 2015, 04:30:36 AM
Quote from: J70 on August 08, 2015, 12:18:22 PM
Its been covered by the NY Times and the WP, among numerous others. Hardly being ignored. And as the Times story comments, part of the lack of impact has to do with the lack of video footage, like in the Garner and several of the other high profile black killings.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/08/us/questions-arise-after-police-kill-a-white-teenager-zachary-hammond.html?_r=0 (http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/08/us/questions-arise-after-police-kill-a-white-teenager-zachary-hammond.html?_r=0)
As for Seattle, just what religious issues do you feel should be making the news? And what is wrong with pro-gay coverage? Are you looking for anti-gay stories or editorializing? And the Pope gets tonnes of coverage, unless you're saying that his views on climate change, divorcees, poverty and so on are being misrepresented?
I wasn't asking for anything religious just pointing out the bias in different parts of the country. Having lived on the East coast and now in the PNW there is a vast difference. Seattle especially focuses on gay rights, gay pride, the gay mayor, the gay cake case, the rainbow crosswalks.... its mad. There is rarely anything Christian related - regardless if there is a story or not.... that was my point.
But gay rights is a very topical issue, and given the advances this summer, its only natural that it would be celebrated.
And seriously, if Seattle is, for a while, celebrating gay rights, so what? The country as a whole is still a Christian nation, as we are told constantly by conservative politicians and media. You are pretty far from being a member of an embattled, persecuted minority.
I'm an atheist FFS, a part of my identity that still has to be kept under wraps around most people and which would pretty much bar me from competing for any national elected office (I'd be better off as a gay muslim, and that is saying something in the US). Yet I'm not huddled up in a foetal position crying over the general bias against me.
Quote from: stew on August 08, 2015, 04:31:12 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 08, 2015, 12:18:22 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on August 07, 2015, 08:32:40 PM
Quote from: J70 on August 07, 2015, 05:35:38 PM
Quote from: The Iceman on August 07, 2015, 05:28:11 PM
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/08/06/an-unarmed-white-teen-was-shot-dead-by-police-his-family-asks-where-is-the-outrage/?postshare=5691438959904493 (http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/08/06/an-unarmed-white-teen-was-shot-dead-by-police-his-family-asks-where-is-the-outrage/?postshare=5691438959904493)
I think this is a fairly good example of the media bias. If this lad was black he would be all over the news. Unarmed teen shot while his girlfriend ate ice cream in the car beside him....
Not part of the agenda the Media wants us to hear so it's buried somewhere....
Is the issue not the frequency with which it happens? Are whites routinely targeted by police like minorities, especially blacks are? I've never been stopped and frisked in NYC. I guarantee you if I was black, I would have been, probably at least several times. I don't think anyone has ever said that white people are never wrongly killed or assaulted by police. Its an issue of proportion.
Well having considered it again this highlights the reluctance maybe of the media to showcase more police brutality? I'm very torn on it all.
There's definitely bias from the police towards black people. No doubt. But there is some crazy situations where your life is or could be on the line and calls have to be made. I don't know given the circumstances which I would choose. Shoot or be shot... Actually I do know - I would shoot, selfishly, I would shoot. I'm not saying all of these cases are cut and dry and the officer had every right to shoot.
In the case of this young lad it was foolish to drive at a cop. The cop could have jumped - responding with lethal force wasn't the answer....
But it isn't being showcased at the minute as it doesn't fit into the media's agenda. Living in different parts of the country you can see a real bias. In Seattle everything is pro gay. No mention of Planned Parenthood, or anything moderately religious on the news. Unless its misquoting Pope Francis.... nothing of real note but the new rainbow crosswalks we had installed by the gay mayor for tens of thousands of dollars a pop....
Its been covered by the NY Times and the WP, among numerous others. Hardly being ignored. And as the Times story comments, part of the lack of impact has to do with the lack of video footage, like in the Garner and several of the other high profile black killings.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/08/us/questions-arise-after-police-kill-a-white-teenager-zachary-hammond.html?_r=0 (http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/08/us/questions-arise-after-police-kill-a-white-teenager-zachary-hammond.html?_r=0)
As for Seattle, just what religious issues do you feel should be making the news? And what is wrong with pro-gay coverage? Are you looking for anti-gay stories or editorializing? And the Pope gets tonnes of coverage, unless you're saying that his views on climate change, divorcees, poverty and so on are being misrepresented?
What the f**k are they doing talking about peoples sexuality? I dont give two shites as long as children are not involved!
I am offically sick of that Jenner f**ker, I am delighted his show is bombing, I am disgusted at him winning an award for bravery, I am tired of people talking about trannys, I dont want to hear straight people talking about sex let alone gay people.
You do realize that this has been a fairly significant summer for gay rights in the US, right?
Who's talking about sex? Sexuality or sexual identity does not equal sex.
I don't really give a shite either way about Jenner personally. Not that I've anything against him or sex changes or transgender rights. I just don't care about him or the Kardashians. But on the other hand, if it helps transgender people in their quest for acceptance, I don't see the harm either.
Quote from: armaghniac on August 09, 2015, 06:37:16 AM
Quote from: The Iceman on August 09, 2015, 04:30:36 AM
I wasn't asking for anything religious just pointing out the bias in different parts of the country. Having lived on the East coast and now in the PNW there is a vast difference. Seattle especially focuses on gay rights, gay pride, the gay mayor, the gay cake case, the rainbow crosswalks.... its mad. There is rarely anything Christian related - regardless if there is a story or not.... that was my point.
The kind of thing makes you demented
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3050776/Plans-rainbow-coloured-zebra-crossing-support-gay-rights-abandoned-fears-cause-hallucinations-dementia-sufferers.html
In general, road markings shouldn't be fiddled with for trival reasons, if they are in black and white it is becuase that makes them easier to see, not a political statement.
;D
Fair point though.
In fairness, if you read an article in the Daily Mail that makes you demented, then you're the kind of person who is made demented by articles in the Daily Mail,- which is a problem.
https://stream.org/7th-planned-parenthood-video-shows-baby-born-alive-no-defense-left/ (https://stream.org/7th-planned-parenthood-video-shows-baby-born-alive-no-defense-left/)
Puck and anyone else who has argued differently - please watch this and tell me whats it all about. Planned Parenthood. Give it 10 mins of your time - please!