Will you vote for Fianna Fail?

[macdanger2]

Think the fact that FF were not the sole reason for the economy collapse is slowly dawning. 

Not the sole reason but a huge huge part of it. I can't see myself ever giving them any sort of a tick again

[Nihilist]

Hard to vote for them while the old guard that were a pivotal part of cabinet for the crash are still there. Specifically Martin, O'Dea and O'Cuiv. Also think that the 30K topup Micheal Martin took is too much to stomach. And was't there another topup then in 2015 according to the Indo. The whole affair stinks back to the bad days era which I assumed FF were trying to get past.

[seafoid]

There are, of course, more extreme approaches that can be taken.

lets take an example. We have about about 3000-4500 people in Leixlip that are expert in designing and producing world class processor chips. What would happen if we simply nationalized that plant ?

This is some of the greatest nonsense posted on this board. And that's some feat.

How do we nationalise the plant? How exactly does that work? The government won't own any of the intellectual property. It's not a case of kick out the bosses and continue production. The private companies own the products. And then other companies see these attempts to "nationalise" and run a mile.

Now, I was deliberately vague on the exact number of employees at that plant. The truth is I don't know how many employees are indigenous. There are are probably a thousand (?) highly skilled foreign workers employed there. These people are basically a "globalized" workforce that can be moved around on a whim. This labour force is subsidised by the Irish government to keep the multinational in the country to keep the other 2000-3000 "natives" in lower scale employment. These elite employees are actually the ones that design/produce  the product and take these skills with them when the leave. meanwhile the natives are kept on lower wages and the illusion of a "knowledge" based economy is maintained.

I am not saying that dumping this model will be without pain. However, we need to have an honest discussion about what is good for the country. We should stop kow-towing to the corporations.

And now you're suggesting that the highly skilled workers are the foreign ones. In the totally unlikely scenario that the company was nationalised, this workforce would be "moved around on a whim". So now we have no one with the skills to make the product (even if we could).

Not only is this suggestion nonsense, it also manages to totally contradict itself in the space of a few sentences.

Renationalization would not be without its problems , for sure, and it is much easier to do with things like raliways (e.g. corbyns ideas) and oil (see Venezuela and Iran). I picked the lexlip plant because we don't have an oil industry to speak of and people know about the lexlip plant. It's not the best example but maybe that's why it is interesting to consider it.

As for the workforce. I believe that there has been enough expertise built up over the years to sustain production. It would mean lads would have to step up of course but you have to back your own people eventually right ?

as for intellectual property .. China has risen stealing circuit designs and fabrication processes for years  and now account for 20% of of worldwide fabless IC industry. Anything is possible if you just stop playing by US hegemonic rules. There is a vicious cycle whereby all the best talent in the world ends up working for US companies who then reap all the ideas of the best minds of India, asia, Europe etc. It is intellectual inequality writ large.

and can we stop the childish insults and confrontational reaction. Is it really such a controversial thing to imagine a future without US domination ?

We need a new economic system anyway. The current one has run out of growth.

[seafoid]

The FF paradox. Your auld wan adores them BUT they were responsible for 70bn in taxpayer bailouts of failed cronies.

What would Jesus do?

[Jim_Murphy_74]

Micheál Martin gave his leaders speech at the Ard Fheis. I must say I found it entertaining. In fairness to the man, he is doing a brilliant job at standing to the side and making it look like FF had little or nothing to do with our present troubles. There is no doubt that FF will gain seats in the next election. There are just to many people/families with ties to the party for it not to. And with a few new faces running without baggage they will be easier to vote for.

Why does he keep boxing them in with the whole "we won't go into coalition" with all the other parties?

Way more damaging to their current situation than the failings of 10 years ago.

/Jim.

[Hardy]

Micheál Martin gave his leaders speech at the Ard Fheis. I must say I found it entertaining. In fairness to the man, he is doing a brilliant job at standing to the side and making it look like FF had little or nothing to do with our present troubles. There is no doubt that FF will gain seats in the next election. There are just to many people/families with ties to the party for it not to. And with a few new faces running without baggage they will be easier to vote for.

Why does he keep boxing them in with the whole "we won't go into coalition" with all the other parties?

Way more damaging to their current situation than the failings of 10 years ago.

/Jim.

I can only imagine it's a manifestation of FF's obsession with SF as their main competition.  An effective declaration that they are not going to be in government may be an attempt to steal dome of SF's disaffected vote. He may be trying to position the Soldiers as the party of protest. Never going to work, in my opinion. A party that has Richie Kavanagh as the headline act at its conference is not going to harvest much of the urban hoodie vote.

[Jim_Murphy_74]

Micheál Martin gave his leaders speech at the Ard Fheis. I must say I found it entertaining. In fairness to the man, he is doing a brilliant job at standing to the side and making it look like FF had little or nothing to do with our present troubles. There is no doubt that FF will gain seats in the next election. There are just to many people/families with ties to the party for it not to. And with a few new faces running without baggage they will be easier to vote for.

Why does he keep boxing them in with the whole "we won't go into coalition" with all the other parties?

Way more damaging to their current situation than the failings of 10 years ago.

/Jim.

I can only imagine it's a manifestation of FF's obsession with SF as their main competition.  An effective declaration that they are not going to be in government may be an attempt to steal dome of SF's disaffected vote. He may be trying to position the Soldiers as the party of protest. Never going to work, in my opinion. A party that has Richie Kavanagh as the headline act at its conference is not going to harvest much of the urban hoodie vote.

God be with the days of Bertie and his "constructive ambiguity"..........

Why can't he kick to touch like everyone else?  "Let the people speak..yaddya...common ground..do businesss..policy support...yaddya"

Their way back to power is propping up the detested blueshirts.

/Jim.

[foxcommander]

Their way back to power is propping up the detested blueshirts.

/Jim.

Fianna Fail's ideology

"It is better to be on the train pissing out the window than running along the platform trying to piss in" - Harry Enfield

Any chance at a power grab they'll take. By telling FG they won't join a coalition is just a bargaining strategy.

[Canalman]

Micheál Martin gave his leaders speech at the Ard Fheis. I must say I found it entertaining. In fairness to the man, he is doing a brilliant job at standing to the side and making it look like FF had little or nothing to do with our present troubles. There is no doubt that FF will gain seats in the next election. There are just to many people/families with ties to the party for it not to. And with a few new faces running without baggage they will be easier to vote for.

Why does he keep boxing them in with the whole "we won't go into coalition" with all the other parties?

Way more damaging to their current situation than the failings of 10 years ago.

/Jim.

Simple really, to position FF or give the impression  as  being the main opposition party to the Government.

Personally think this GE is one FF have written off as one to get back on their feet and will be eyeing up the next one later in the year or in 4/5 years ahead as the one where they will be sniffing around looking for the second seats in the constituencies.

Think FF have no interest in getting into power this time. Same with SF I think.

[foxcommander]

Think FF have no interest in getting into power this time.

If a coalition is offered with tanaiste position would Micheal turn it down? It's a gamble to say you'll make it to the next election still in the driving seat of your party.

[From the Bunker]

Think FF have no interest in getting into power this time. Same with SF I think.

100% - The worst move for FF would be to go into power and they know it. Power sharing as a minority party is suicide. They have to talk the talk about going into government to the Public, but in private opposition with a couple more seats will do (for the moment!).

From a personal view. My days of giving any sort of a mark to a FF Candidate are done. The thought of it disgusts me.

[Rossfan]

From a personal view. My days of giving any sort of a mark to a FF Candidate are done. The thought of it disgusts me.

+1.
If my best friend stood for them cuts I wouldn't give him even a no 10 never mind no1.
It certainly looks like they want to recover some seats but stay away from Govt to ensure SF can't claim to be the real Opposition.

[seafoid]

From a personal view. My days of giving any sort of a mark to a FF Candidate are done. The thought of it disgusts me.

+1.
If my best friend stood for them cuts I wouldn't give him even a no 10 never mind no1.
It certainly looks like they want to recover some seats but stay away from Govt to ensure SF can't claim to be the real Opposition.

They never apologised . All the suicides post crash and not a word.

[trileacman]

Micheál Martin gave his leaders speech at the Ard Fheis. I must say I found it entertaining. In fairness to the man, he is doing a brilliant job at standing to the side and making it look like FF had little or nothing to do with our present troubles. There is no doubt that FF will gain seats in the next election. There are just to many people/families with ties to the party for it not to. And with a few new faces running without baggage they will be easier to vote for.

Why does he keep boxing them in with the whole "we won't go into coalition" with all the other parties?

Way more damaging to their current situation than the failings of 10 years ago.

/Jim.

I can only imagine it's a manifestation of FF's obsession with SF as their main competition.  An effective declaration that they are not going to be in government may be an attempt to steal dome of SF's disaffected vote. He may be trying to position the Soldiers as the party of protest. Never going to work, in my opinion. A party that has Richie Kavanagh as the headline act at its conference is not going to harvest much of the urban hoodie vote.

They vote now?

[whitey]

devalera handed our sovereignty over to a bigger tyrant than the one we deposed...the Catholic Church

Once we recovered from that 70 year nightmare Cowen and Leinahan then handed the country over to the Troika

Fool me once, shame on you......