Is University worth it?

Started by LC, July 17, 2023, 10:02:03 AM

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LC

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-66216005

Came across this article, even when I went to J'town several years ago I could not fathom the logic in why people were doing degrees not linked to any real jobs.

It would seem people still have not caught on.

yellowcard

Quote from: LC on July 17, 2023, 10:02:03 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-66216005

Came across this article, even when I went to J'town several years ago I could not fathom the logic in why people were doing degrees not linked to any real jobs.

It would seem people still have not caught on.

You are beginning to see a drift back towards apprenticeships. A half decent construction worker is now earning 4 figure sum a week, contrast that against the alternative of going to university for 3 years and coming out with £30k plus of debt for less pay. Some people haven't yet figured it out, a lot of it is down to simple go with the flow and inertia.

WeeDonns

Short answer for a lot (most?) graduates is "No"
Studied Computer Science in UUJ from 2003-2007, thankfully fees were still covered then
Gained a good foundation knowledge to take into the workplace, most of which was gained in placement year to be honest

Great, great times had in the holylands, no doubt about it, but I think we look back on it with rose tinted glasses & talk about the same few great nights
Is it worth the level of debt that students are expected to get into now to complete their degrees? Doubtful. There are other ways to gain those skills & recognised accreditations ( in IT anyway)

Have a niece waiting on A level results, I think her preference is do an apprenticeship with deloitte/pwc.
Sounds sensible to me - still get the living away experience & the professional qualification, with the added benefit of professional experience & a salary

Mourne Red

Quote from: WeeDonns on July 17, 2023, 10:30:14 AM
Short answer for a lot (most?) graduates is "No"
Studied Computer Science in UUJ from 2003-2007, thankfully fees were still covered then
Gained a good foundation knowledge to take into the workplace, most of which was gained in placement year to be honest

Great, great times had in the holylands, no doubt about it, but I think we look back on it with rose tinted glasses & talk about the same few great nights
Is it worth the level of debt that students are expected to get into now to complete their degrees? Doubtful. There are other ways to gain those skills & recognised accreditations ( in IT anyway)

Have a niece waiting on A level results, I think her preference is do an apprenticeship with deloitte/pwc.
Sounds sensible to me - still get the living away experience & the professional qualification, with the added benefit of professional experience & a salary

In agreement with this - Done a computer science degree in Liverpool, I was first year of the £9k fee's looking back probably would have been a better option to do the apprenticeship route. Did learn some good skills with Java/SQL but lectures weren't up to much just powerpoints which you could read off the internet and I don't use much of what was taught in the course.

In one of the American banks atm doing IT App Support and have a right few on our floor doing the apprenticeship. Wages may be low to start but once your apprenticeship is over you soon go up the payscale very quickly. Also not having to pay £200 in student loan repayments each month

LC

Financially it does not stack up.

With having a bit of support with grants back in the day I graduated with £5k of student loans and my starting salary was £15k in my first job.

Graduates now coming out with I imagine loans of £25k - £30k and starting on a salary of £30 - £35k if they are lucky.


clarshack

It's still worth it if you study something like medicine.
Not sure about the rest.

Mourne Red

Quote from: LC on July 17, 2023, 12:24:46 PM
Financially it does not stack up.

With having a bit of support with grants back in the day I graduated with £5k of student loans and my starting salary was £15k in my first job.

Graduates now coming out with I imagine loans of £25k - £30k and starting on a salary of £30 - £35k if they are lucky.

Starting salary's far less than £30k.. Out of Uni into Tax/Accountancy/IT about 5 years ago was £21-24k.. Tax/Accountancy in the low side because company would pay for your exams.

J70

I would absolutely say university is worth it, if only to develop critical thinking and analytical skills, the ability to look at an issue from all angles, something very badly lacking among a significant portion of the general population.

It's only a few years out of your life at a very young age. You can pursue the apprenticeship afterwards if that's the road you want to go down. Marriage and kids and so on is increasingly being delayed until you hit your thirties these days anyway.

RedHand88

It depends.

Ask any Doctor, Solicitor, Pharmacist, Engineer or someone who did a vocational type degree and the answer will be a definite "Yes". These people make great money and will have a job for life because of the fact there are only so many people in the country trained in their field and it takes 5 years or more to get there.
However, there are an awful lot of spoof degrees though that really are not worth the money and would be classed as bad investments. I know someone who did a degree in History and had just 8hours a week in 1st year. He works for the civil service. Could have had a 4 year head start if he'd went into it at 18.

Apprenticeships are good if you are willing to put the work in. The area where I am located is crying out for apprentices and tradesmen of every description. They could work 7 days a week if they wanted and are making good money. Ive heard a good joiner can expect 200-300 a day. Brickies the same. If you are brave and hardworking enough you can start you own business and then you're off to the races, without a University degree.

Edit - someone else pointed out the fact you gain a broader perspective on life going to Uni. This is very true. You will meet many people from different backgrounds and I feel it opens more doors to travel, which is always good.

screenexile

Quote from: J70 on July 17, 2023, 12:38:09 PM
I would absolutely say university is worth it, if only to develop critical thinking and analytical skills, the ability to look at an issue from all angles, something very badly lacking among a significant portion of the general population.

It's only a few years out of your life at a very young age. You can pursue the apprenticeship afterwards if that's the road you want to go down. Marriage and kids and so on is increasingly being delayed until you hit your thirties these days anyway.

Not sure about where you went to college but when I was in Belfast there was very little interest in developing critical thinking and analytical skills. 9 hour per week contact time with courses fosters time in the bar not time engaged in critical thinking!

LC

Quote from: screenexile on July 17, 2023, 12:43:01 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 17, 2023, 12:38:09 PM
I would absolutely say university is worth it, if only to develop critical thinking and analytical skills, the ability to look at an issue from all angles, something very badly lacking among a significant portion of the general population.

It's only a few years out of your life at a very young age. You can pursue the apprenticeship afterwards if that's the road you want to go down. Marriage and kids and so on is increasingly being delayed until you hit your thirties these days anyway.

Not sure about where you went to college but when I was in Belfast there was very little interest in developing critical thinking and analytical skills. 9 hour per week contact time with courses fosters time in the bar not time engaged in critical thinking!


+1

F@*k all about critical thinking and analytical skills more just about regurgetation......however plenty of analysing done in the mall in J'town back in the day.


J70

#11
Quote from: screenexile on July 17, 2023, 12:43:01 PM
Quote from: J70 on July 17, 2023, 12:38:09 PM
I would absolutely say university is worth it, if only to develop critical thinking and analytical skills, the ability to look at an issue from all angles, something very badly lacking among a significant portion of the general population.

It's only a few years out of your life at a very young age. You can pursue the apprenticeship afterwards if that's the road you want to go down. Marriage and kids and so on is increasingly being delayed until you hit your thirties these days anyway.

Not sure about where you went to college but when I was in Belfast there was very little interest in developing critical thinking and analytical skills. 9 hour per week contact time with courses fosters time in the bar not time engaged in critical thinking!

I guess it's what you make of it, like anything, same as an apprenticeship!

Any degree program worth it's salt should be making you spend plenty of time in the library and, for some, the field. Personally, when I'm hiring, I wouldn't spend too much time on someone who just scraped a pass, all else being equal.

Which is not to say I didn't work on many's a hangover in the areas around Dublin 4.

Milltown Row2

Some people get what they need from a college education others drift through it and end up in a public service type job and that's ok too. I'm not sure employers are overly concerned about degrees unless its in the field of employment that they are applying for. Personally if I'm employing someone its a work ethic and a willingness to learn and get on with staff that I'd put up there as being important

My daughter just finished a degree at Queens, hand on heart she should have went for an apprenticeship role rather than a degree in Criminology, she's no interest in it at all now and out of sheer boredom just about past, that year at Queens there was no lectures due to covid and the following year there was numerous strikes preventing classes not being taken. I firmly believe those students should get a refund, but that's another gripe. 

Other daughter is away in Liverpool and flat out partying, so she's enjoying that side of things ;D
None of us are getting out of here alive, so please stop treating yourself like an after thought. Ea

markl121

Schools are obsessed with it, which is a big problem. They like having the stats. My school it wasn't an option to even considering leaving at 16 and doing a trade. Probably why I'd say at least 1/3 of us struggled with uni and changed course or dropped out. There's a huge void of people my age doing trades

seafoid

You need a balance between apprenticeships and university and tech colleges IMO
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU