Down Club Hurling & Football

[thewobbler]

Quick lesson for some:

How managers pick representative squads: they look for players who lead the way in terms of ability, athleticism, attitude and aptitude. They will build their team around the players who score highly in all four areas, and when they don't have enough of those, will fill the squad out, and build specialist roles, for those who excel in three areas, and with players who excel in two areas but show signs of potential to be coached for improvement in the others.

How managers don't pick representative squads:  1. by referencing the importance of the regional breakdown of the 1991 senior team in selection meetings. 2. by ignoring the advice of trusted football men from across the county, and most of all, 3.  by drawing a line just south of Kilcoo and using it as the new first parameter in every squad decision.



If a player is both good enough and willing, he will be found.

[OgraAnDun]

Quick lesson for some:

How managers pick representative squads: they look for players who lead the way in terms of ability, athleticism, attitude and aptitude. They will build their team around the players who score highly in all four areas, and when they don't have enough of those, will fill the squad out, and build specialist roles, for those who excel in three areas, and with players who excel in two areas but show signs of potential to be coached for improvement in the others.

How managers don't pick representative squads:  1. by referencing the importance of the regional breakdown of the 1991 senior team in selection meetings. 2. by ignoring the advice of trusted football men from across the county, and most of all, 3.  by drawing a line just south of Kilcoo and using it as the new first parameter in every squad decision.



If a player is both good enough and willing, he will be found.

Posts like that are too sensible for this board thewobbler!

[Leftmidfield]

CPN drew with Glenn. Burren beat Ballymartin easily. McKernan stretchered off. Any other results ?

[east down gael]

Not disagreeing with any of that wobbler,but is it not about time we as a county started to wonder why there are so few from above the imaginary line who meet that criteria?it is a huge area of the county to not be producing players for the county on a proportional basis.

[SHEEDY]

CPN drew with Glenn. Burren beat Ballymartin easily. McKernan stretchered off. Any other results ?

castlewellan beat clonduff 2-11 to 0-8. l'stone beat saval by a point, kilcoo beat mayobridge by 4.

[thewobbler]

Not disagreeing with any of that wobbler,but is it not about time we as a county started to wonder why there are so few from above the imaginary line who meet that criteria?it is a huge area of the county to not be producing players for the county on a proportional basis.

Couple of things.

South Down is fair bit bigger than the East in terms of clubs. It also isn't overly afflicted with hurling, while getting to Belfast to study is a huge deal for most lads (unlike Carryduff and Bredagh lads, who seem compelled to head to Dublin or across the water). There is also a number of dedicated, recognised GAA schools (Abbey, College, St Marks) which parents and teenagers actually seek out to improve their chances. There isn't anything quite like that in the East since Red High went backwards. So statistically, players from South Down clubs should - on average - dominate all selections. That's just maths.

This has been playing out in minor football recently (if less so at u12 and u14, where the Belfast clubs are strong). I wasn't paying that much attention until the past few years, but having kept an eye on club minor league and championship results over the past few seasons, if anything East Down have been overly represented at minor and u21 county level recently. Last season, not once was a SD club beaten by an ED club in the ACMFL. That's a crazy stat.

I genuinely hope it's just a cyclical thing and that over the next few years the equation will balance up again. But it's not going to happen by accident anymore. Any club can "find" a great crop of players at under 12, but it's proving bloody difficult to keep them bothered up to minor level nowadays, it would seem.

[east down gael]

Again,I agree with basically everything you just said,but what I'm asking is what can be done to have the east down area producing top quality players.we've been hearing for the last few months how the county is in a lowly place,and while I personally think we aren't any worse off than most tier two teams(we just had the misfortune of being in the first division and finding out exactly how far off we are!),if we genuinely want to push on then we need to ask why huge population areas such as newry,downpatrick,Bredagh and carryduff are not represented in the top flight.its not just an East down south down discussion.the newry clubs lowly position is equally,if not more,alarming as they have access to the schools you mention.

[wobbller]

 I'd let the new Development squad regimes under PoR at it for a few years and see if we can get them up to U21 and Senior level by doing it O'Rourke's way and hopefully they'll
turn out better than the usual Down Way.

[knockitdown]

http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/northern-ireland/36024819?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

Big blow

[The Raven]

Not disagreeing with any of that wobbler,but is it not about time we as a county started to wonder why there are so few from above the imaginary line who meet that criteria?it is a huge area of the county to not be producing players for the county on a proportional basis.

Couple of things.

South Down is fair bit bigger than the East in terms of clubs. It also isn't overly afflicted with hurling, while getting to Belfast to study is a huge deal for most lads (unlike Carryduff and Bredagh lads, who seem compelled to head to Dublin or across the water). There is also a number of dedicated, recognised GAA schools (Abbey, College, St Marks) which parents and teenagers actually seek out to improve their chances. There isn't anything quite like that in the East since Red High went backwards. So statistically, players from South Down clubs should - on average - dominate all selections. That's just maths.

This has been playing out in minor football recently (if less so at u12 and u14, where the Belfast clubs are strong). I wasn't paying that much attention until the past few years, but having kept an eye on club minor league and championship results over the past few seasons, if anything East Down have been overly represented at minor and u21 county level recently. Last season, not once was a SD club beaten by an ED club in the ACMFL. That's a crazy stat.

I genuinely hope it's just a cyclical thing and that over the next few years the equation will balance up again. But it's not going to happen by accident anymore. Any club can "find" a great crop of players at under 12, but it's proving bloody difficult to keep them bothered up to minor level nowadays, it would seem.
[afflicted?? Wise up]

[imagine]

Not disagreeing with any of that wobbler,but is it not about time we as a county started to wonder why there are so few from above the imaginary line who meet that criteria?it is a huge area of the county to not be producing players for the county on a proportional basis.

Couple of things.

South Down is fair bit bigger than the East in terms of clubs. It also isn't overly afflicted with hurling, while getting to Belfast to study is a huge deal for most lads (unlike Carryduff and Bredagh lads, who seem compelled to head to Dublin or across the water). There is also a number of dedicated, recognised GAA schools (Abbey, College, St Marks) which parents and teenagers actually seek out to improve their chances. There isn't anything quite like that in the East since Red High went backwards. So statistically, players from South Down clubs should - on average - dominate all selections. That's just maths.

This has been playing out in minor football recently (if less so at u12 and u14, where the Belfast clubs are strong). I wasn't paying that much attention until the past few years, but having kept an eye on club minor league and championship results over the past few seasons, if anything East Down have been overly represented at minor and u21 county level recently. Last season, not once was a SD club beaten by an ED club in the ACMFL. That's a crazy stat.

I genuinely hope it's just a cyclical thing and that over the next few years the equation will balance up again. But it's not going to happen by accident anymore. Any club can "find" a great crop of players at under 12, but it's proving bloody difficult to keep them bothered up to minor level nowadays, it would seem.

Bryansford beat Mayobridge last year in the League in a tight game at the Bridge but you are so correct in your arguments.Hurling isn't a problem in St Pauls at these age groups but  sometimes we feel we are in Rochdale for all the interest the general public have in gaa affairs.Schools are a big factor.Do all sports and be master in none.

[johnneycool]

Not disagreeing with any of that wobbler,but is it not about time we as a county started to wonder why there are so few from above the imaginary line who meet that criteria?it is a huge area of the county to not be producing players for the county on a proportional basis.

Couple of things.

South Down is fair bit bigger than the East in terms of clubs. It also isn't overly afflicted with hurling, while getting to Belfast to study is a huge deal for most lads (unlike Carryduff and Bredagh lads, who seem compelled to head to Dublin or across the water). There is also a number of dedicated, recognised GAA schools (Abbey, College, St Marks) which parents and teenagers actually seek out to improve their chances. There isn't anything quite like that in the East since Red High went backwards. So statistically, players from South Down clubs should - on average - dominate all selections. That's just maths.

This has been playing out in minor football recently (if less so at u12 and u14, where the Belfast clubs are strong). I wasn't paying that much attention until the past few years, but having kept an eye on club minor league and championship results over the past few seasons, if anything East Down have been overly represented at minor and u21 county level recently. Last season, not once was a SD club beaten by an ED club in the ACMFL. That's a crazy stat.

I genuinely hope it's just a cyclical thing and that over the next few years the equation will balance up again. But it's not going to happen by accident anymore. Any club can "find" a great crop of players at under 12, but it's proving bloody difficult to keep them bothered up to minor level nowadays, it would seem.

Bryansford beat Mayobridge last year in the League in a tight game at the Bridge but you are so correct in your arguments.Hurling isn't a problem in St Pauls at these age groups but  sometimes we feel we are in Rochdale for all the interest the general public have in gaa affairs.Schools are a big factor.Do all sports and be master in none.

Certainly isn't but they're more than welcome to come hurl with us as they're currently doing.

On the schools thing, St Columbanus would have quite a few teachers in it from our neck of the woods from a hurling/camogie background, a little push and support from St Pauls could help trigger off an interest in GAA activities.
IIRC one of the Blaneys involved with Carryduff also teaches in it.

Similarly a lot of the teachers in the local primary schools in the Bangor area are also from GAA backgrounds, either players, ex players and coaches.

Sometimes its up to the local club to kick off the debate and set the wheels in motion.

[imagine]

Not disagreeing with any of that wobbler,but is it not about time we as a county started to wonder why there are so few from above the imaginary line who meet that criteria?it is a huge area of the county to not be producing players for the county on a proportional basis.

Couple of things.

South Down is fair bit bigger than the East in terms of clubs. It also isn't overly afflicted with hurling, while getting to Belfast to study is a huge deal for most lads (unlike Carryduff and Bredagh lads, who seem compelled to head to Dublin or across the water). There is also a number of dedicated, recognised GAA schools (Abbey, College, St Marks) which parents and teenagers actually seek out to improve their chances. There isn't anything quite like that in the East since Red High went backwards. So statistically, players from South Down clubs should - on average - dominate all selections. That's just maths.

This has been playing out in minor football recently (if less so at u12 and u14, where the Belfast clubs are strong). I wasn't paying that much attention until the past few years, but having kept an eye on club minor league and championship results over the past few seasons, if anything East Down have been overly represented at minor and u21 county level recently. Last season, not once was a SD club beaten by an ED club in the ACMFL. That's a crazy stat.

I genuinely hope it's just a cyclical thing and that over the next few years the equation will balance up again. But it's not going to happen by accident anymore. Any club can "find" a great crop of players at under 12, but it's proving bloody difficult to keep them bothered up to minor level nowadays, it would seem.

Bryansford beat Mayobridge last year in the League in a tight game at the Bridge but you are so correct in your arguments.Hurling isn't a problem in St Pauls at these age groups but  sometimes we feel we are in Rochdale for all the interest the general public have in gaa affairs.Schools are a big factor.Do all sports and be master in none.

Certainly isn't but they're more than welcome to come hurl with us as they're currently doing.

On the schools thing, St Columbanus would have quite a few teachers in it from our neck of the woods from a hurling/camogie background, a little push and support from St Pauls could help trigger off an interest in GAA activities.
IIRC one of the Blaneys involved with Carryduff also teaches in it.

Similarly a lot of the teachers in the local primary schools in the Bangor area are also from GAA backgrounds, either players, ex players and coaches.

Sometimes its up to the local club to kick off the debate and set the wheels in motion.

There is a slight interaction with Schools but as I said it's like Rochdale.

[east down gael]

The catchment area for St Paul's is so big that I feel it is almost a disadvantage.

[interested]

Quick lesson for some:

How managers pick representative squads: they look for players who lead the way in terms of ability, athleticism, attitude and aptitude. They will build their team around the players who score highly in all four areas, and when they don't have enough of those, will fill the squad out, and build specialist roles, for those who excel in three areas, and with players who excel in two areas but show signs of potential to be coached for improvement in the others.

How managers don't pick representative squads:  1. by referencing the importance of the regional breakdown of the 1991 senior team in selection meetings. 2. by ignoring the advice of trusted football men from across the county, and most of all, 3.  by drawing a line just south of Kilcoo and using it as the new first parameter in every squad decision.



If a player is both good enough and willing, he will be found.

I think the issue is we're not finding players of suitable ability lately and rightly or wrongly the east down brigade see the lack of progress with all Down county teams is somehow down to this perceived geographical bias.