More sectarianism in Irish League Football

[his holiness nb]

Inane crap ?

[MW]

I find it funny how all the NI soccer contigent rush to say it didnt happen, or it probably didnt happen, or that the manager isnt to be believed when they are quick to jump on the GAA when something similar happens with Darren Graham and everyone on here A) takes Darrens word for it and B) supports him and hopes this sort of carry on is cut out.

Allegations of sectarian abuse made by Fermanagh GAA Player...instantly believed by OWC

Allegations of sectarian abuse made by Irish League manager...instantly rubbished by OWC

Where is the consistency? I think we know the answer....

Shock Horror, allegations of sectarianism in NI Soccer.
Shock Horror, the ususal suspects are very quick to defend NI Soccer.

Guys, this is a very odd and slightly disturbing mindset all three of you are exhibiting.

I am not a collective and never have been. Attribute my comments to me and me alone. I do not speak for anyone but myself. And have the decency not to attribute anyone else's comments to be or claim I've said things that I haven't.

'Themmuns' aren't just some amorphous, interchangeable mass, is that clear?

The stuff I've quoted from you, Tony and to some extent 5ivetimes in my post above is exactly the sort of inane crap I'm talking about.

It's twofold really - firstly, the talk of me as some sort of collective. As if I'm speaking for "OWC" or "all the NI soccer contingent". And the attributing to me of comments and actions I haven't made.

And secondly, the completely prdictable response from yourself and 5ivetimes. Tony makes an allegation. I try to add some context and give a fuller picture. Then you and/or 5times rush in with "you're denying it, I'm not surprised, you're an apologist" type stuff. Every. Bloody. Time. And it adds precisely zero to the discussion.

[MW]

Inane crap ?

That was quite brilliant, given that I'd ended with "See below for the sort of inane crap I'm talking about". I actually meant my next post which I was about to type, but you've illustrated it perfectly. Why can't you actually try to address (or shock horror even take on board) what I've said, answer what I've asked you, instead of posting "filler" posts which add nothing to any discussion and are the forum equivalent of bunging sawdust in a food product?

[MW]

MW is this you?

And another one! Your timing is perfect! As I said to his holiness...

Why can't you actually try to address (or shock horror even take on board) what I've said, answer what I've asked you, instead of posting "filler" posts which add nothing to any discussion and are the forum equivalent of bunging sawdust in a food product?

Against my better judgement, however, I'm going to try to drag you kicking and screaming back into a proper discussion using that very post. (for my next trick, I'll turn water into wine...) What am I supposed to be refusing to see?

[his holiness nb]

Valid points were made, and you didnt like them so you attack the poster and call every post you dont like "predicable" and "inane crap"

I'll tell you what was very predictable, when the thread was started it was very predicable that an NI Fan would come on either showing something to suggest it was untrue or post up a similar incident from "the other side".

That was 100% predictable, and if you think it was predictable that someone pointed this out when it happened well you are right.
Predictable isnt always a bad thing MW  

[his holiness nb]

Why can't you actually try to address (or shock horror even take on board) what I've said, answer what I've asked you, instead of posting "filler" posts which add nothing to any discussion and are the forum equivalent of bunging sawdust in a food product?

Ok, so what "answers" do you want?

[MW]

Valid points were made, and you didnt like them so you attack the poster and call every post you dont like "predicable" and "inane crap"

I have addressed the points you have made. I have made my own points in response and asked you questions. In return you have refused to answer my points and questions, and have instead come back with your 'sawdust' posts.

I'll tell you what was very predictable, when the thread was started it was very predicable that an NI Fan would come on either showing something to suggest it was untrue or post up a similar incident from "the other side".

I'm not in the business of denying any sectarian incident that took place did, nor in the business of making categorical statements about events I wasn't an eyewitness to. Do you have some problem with me adding balance to the original, one-sided, post. Do you have a problem with both sides of the story getting a hearing?

That was 100% predictable, and if you think it was predictable that someone pointed this out when it happened well you are right.
Predictable isnt always a bad thing MW  

Ity is when instead of choosing to look at the issue, instead you choose to attack someone providing balance and evidence, as if by doing tat very thing they're going something wrong. You've done it over and over. It's become, as I've said above, almost a single transferable post.

[MW]

Valid points were made, and you didnt like them so you attack the poster and call every post you dont like "predicable" and "inane crap"

I have addressed the points you have made. I have made my own points in response and asked you questions. In return you have refused to answer my points and questions, and have instead come back with your 'sawdust' posts.

This is what I mean by the above:

So all round denial that it happened so.

Certainly from those who were there I haven't come across anyone saying it did happen, apart from Mr Jeffrey.

No, "If it did happen its terrible" or anything like that.

See my post above.

Just a rush to discredit the guy who made the allegations.

I can't stand Jeffrey and have a number of bones to pick with him over previous publicity whoring. So shoot me.

So a few people who were there say they didnt hear it and that means it didnt happen???

Far more than "a few" - and not just saying they didn't hear it, many adamant it simply didn't happen. The fact that the Ballymena fans are so outraged at this allegation tells a tale too.

And I would have thought that given the dugouts are in front of the South Stand, and the Ballymena fans were in the North Stand, someone among the supporters would have picked up on a chant (worse than Rangers... ) apart from Mr Jeffrey.

Or are the moral standards in that league so low that a manager of the top team would lie about sectarian abuse his players receive??

Don't be so silly. Jeffrey's media prounouncements have bugger all to do with the "moral standards in that league", whatever that's supposed to mean.

I find it funny how all the NI soccer contigent rush to say it didnt happen, or it probably didnt happen,

"All the NI soccer contingent"?? What the bloody hell are you gibbering on about? (Myself and Tony hawks?)

or that the manager isnt to be believed when they are quick to jump on the GAA when something similar happens with Darren Graham and everyone on here A) takes Darrens word for it and B) supports him and hopes this sort of carry on is cut out.

First thing. Where in the fame of good feck did I "jump on the GAA" And where did I "take Darren's word for it" instead of listening what people had to say? (Did Tony hawks either I wonder?) And where were the vociferous denials that it took place?

Have the moral high horses bolted? 

I've always been consistent about my abhorrence of sectarianism. I don't know who's looking for a "moral high horse".

To which you replied...

Rather than post all the previous waffle why didnt you just say "100% right his holiness, well said".

Woudl have saved time 

And:

"the usual suspects" 
Why not just say "themmuns" 

Because I mean two individual people - you and 5ivetimes. I don't look on people as interchangeable members of some giant collective as some not too far away in cyberspace appear to.

My point was how curious it was that instead of saying "well if the allegations are true its terrible BUT....." then go on it would have been more balanced that straight away post "eye witness" accounts of people saying it never happened and questioning the creditibility of the accusor.

I've agreed it would be sad if this were true.

Just the acceptance that its a possibility that this happened would have said a lot for you rather than blind denial of an incident said to have happened at a game you said yourself you werent at.
I'm not saying it happened either, but lets at least accept it may have happened.

Where exactly did I make this "blind denial", or indeed any sort of denial? Learn to read, FFS.

And before you start, no you didnt say it didnt happen, but your posts were clearly suggesting this without you having to make a statement of fact that might come back to embarrass you.

I ackowledged this was a two-sided story (unlike the original poster who simply presented Jeffrey's allegations as fact), said which side I'd tend to believe on this one, and why. Can't say fairer than that, really...

MW, if pointing this out is "inane crap" then I really give up on you, I'm just saying lets be balanced here.

See what I've just said above on 'balance'.

Then again seeing as I am one of the "usual suspects" then maybe you had decided it was "inane crap" before even reading it.

See below for the sort of inane crap I'm talking about.

To which you replied:

Inane crap ?

[his holiness nb]

Was there a point to that last post?

[MW]

[What am I supposed to be refusing to see?

You simply refuse to see that sectarianism exists in NI soccer,

This is quite simply rubbish. I have never said anything of the sort. Quite the opposite in fact.

wether or not this incident happened in the Ballymena v Linfield game is totally irrelevant, whereas you where very quick to jump on the Darren Graham bandwagon.

This is just as much rubbish as your last point. My comment on the Darren Graham affair was five pages into the "GAA is sectarian or people are wankers" thread, it was short and was I think the only comment I made:

A sad reflection on Northern Ireland life in general unfortunately of which most of us I'm sure have been on the recieving end at one time or another.

I have some sympathy with some GAA people here. I know myself what it is like to have a whole group of people demonised because of the actions of a minority and his case may well be no different. Fair play to the lad for his courage in taking up the game, and in talking to the media with his story afterwards. I hope things are in a position someday that he can re-start his GAA career.

I'd agree with these comments.

What the hell is going on in your head??

Can you really not distinguish individuals from among some sort of colleactive of various posters you have fixed in your mind? Do you see whatever you want to see regardless of what I actually post??

[Main Street]

The world has tilted a bit in recent days.
alleged accusation of bigotry directed against Linfields catholics, Glasgow Rangers complain to Uefa about their players getting racial abuse.

Now the Kerry Dublin AI SF pairing has that refreshing look of normality restored.

[MW]

Was there a point to that last post?

Modified now to sort out the quoting etc.

[his holiness nb]

Was there a point to that last post?

Modified now to sort out the quoting etc.

Are you going to tell me the questions you want answered?
I'm not going to indulge you and waste my time reading back through that! 

It'll be the morning at this stage 

[MW]

You should start by saying why you referred to me,  or me and Tony hawks, as "all the NI soccer contingent".

You could answer this: Where in the fame of good feck did I "jump on the GAA" ? And where did I "take Darren's word for it" instead of listening what people had to say? (Did Tony hawks either I wonder?)

And this: Where exactly did I make this "blind denial", or indeed any sort of denial?

[stew]

MW, why would he make it up if he didnt hear it?

Otherwise what are you getting at?

I'm not "getting at" anything. I wasn't there. Did you read those links?

However what I will say about Jeffrey is that he's a maniacal publicity whore whose common sense such as it is appears to go out the window on matchday. And am told he gets a fair amount of personal abuse from some in the Ballymena support. If it came down to believing him or the various Ballymena fans of my acquaintance, I know who I'd believe about what actually happened..


Wow, I am seeing a pattern here. Any time anyone says anything negative about an IFA club they get lambasted and the personal abuse toward them reaches unforseen heights. Derek Dougan got stick and Neil Lennon was branded a liar on the owc website.
Feckit Holly aged 8 from kent was told on owc that she needed to learn some manners and the class acts over there even questioned her parents parenting skills and all because of a perceived slight and the fact she wona prize on blue peter.

I applaud this man for having the stones to report this abuse given the history of retribution the 'fans' of IFA have meted out in the past.

SHAME OWC SHAME!!!!!!!!