Author Topic: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.  (Read 76190 times)

armaghniac

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #1425 on: September 15, 2017, 10:59:13 AM »
There is no escaping the following

1.Without membership of or subordination to the Uk and EU respectively,neither NI or ROI are viable economic entities.

Membership and subordination are not the same thing. It is a bit like saying that people can live in families or can be owned as slaves.
I am a member of the GAA as are many people posting here.
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LeoMc

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #1426 on: September 15, 2017, 11:39:50 AM »
You can ride a bike or drive a tractor on it and the speed limit is 60mph. It ain't no motorway, boyo.

The speed limit on a Dual Carriageway is 70 mph

https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/advice/know-how/speed-limits/
The law in NI is slightly different in that speed limits apply to vehicles not roads.
Parts of the A1 including the bit past Banbriges & Dromore have 60MPH signs.

Rossfan

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #1427 on: September 15, 2017, 11:43:53 AM »
Last time I looked the 26 has a massive trade surplus so is obviously viable.
We are net contributors to the EU.
We subsidise a lot of things in the 6 Cos.
The Brits are the ones who will be responsible for re establishing the Border unless they cop themselves on.
I can go to 16 or 17 other sovereign States in Europe and don't have to get ripped off by currency changers.
Why us Tony bothered anyway as he wants nothing to do with us - I presume he has a UK* passport and considers himself a British citizen?
* Only passport that contains the words "Northern Ireland".
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LeoMc

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #1428 on: September 15, 2017, 11:57:32 AM »
There is no escaping the following

1.Without membership of or subordination to the Uk and EU respectively,neither NI or ROI are viable economic entities.

2.In return for that membership/subordination neither NI or ROI has the autonomy to make its own laws (to serve as a priority its own people), to control its own borders (and shortly to prevent the imposition of a border in Ireland that no substantial portion of the people North and South,want),and in the case of ROI,doesn't even have its own national currency.

Nice semantics. NI has membership of the UK but for the ROI it is subordination to the EU.

You seem to be ging the 1922 Stormont opt out the same weight as the 1973 (!) ROI referendum.

vallankumous

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #1429 on: September 15, 2017, 12:31:32 PM »
There is no escaping the following

1.Without membership of or subordination to the Uk and EU respectively,neither NI or ROI are viable economic entities.

2.In return for that membership/subordination neither NI or ROI has the autonomy to make its own laws (to serve as a priority its own people), to control its own borders (and shortly to prevent the imposition of a border in Ireland that no substantial portion of the people North and South,want),and in the case of ROI,doesn't even have its own national currency.

That's not unusual nor surprising. If we want to sell our product to Germany our product needs to be at an acceptable German standard rather than a standard we might have ourselves. To make this easy we set the same standard across member states.
If we want our people to have the freedom of movement within agreeable Countries we need to all understand and accept a common set of law.
This works both ways.

T Fearon

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #1430 on: September 15, 2017, 12:35:19 PM »
For the record I hold an Irish Passport.I am not British in any way shape or form nor Unionist.However I am a pragmatist.

Why does the ROI if its a net contributor to the EU insist on continued membership in the light of its leading trading partner,the UK,leaving,thus risking a border on the island of Ireland?

armaghniac

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #1431 on: September 15, 2017, 12:41:57 PM »
Why does the ROI if its a net contributor to the EU insist on continued membership in the light of its leading trading partner,the UK,leaving,thus risking a border on the island of Ireland?

because it is being in the EU that makes it prosperous enough to be a net contributor?

In any case leaving now would be like a GAA club that got a grant from central funds for its new field and when it was built then leaving the GAA because it was now being asked to chip in towards a new field for another club that hadn't yet got one.
if at first you don't succeed, then goto Plan B

vallankumous

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #1432 on: September 15, 2017, 12:44:56 PM »
For the record I hold an Irish Passport.I am not British in any way shape or form nor Unionist.However I am a pragmatist.

Why does the ROI if its a net contributor to the EU insist on continued membership in the light of its leading trading partner,the UK,leaving,thus risking a border on the island of Ireland?

The UK have not left anything yet. Should they leave and the terms become unsuitable to the RoI I'm sure they will look at it. It would be incredibly stupid to leave the EU to maintain current trade with a headless UK.

Eamonnca1

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #1433 on: September 15, 2017, 06:58:32 PM »
to control its own borders

The idea that a nation state should control absolutely everyone who crosses its borders is a fairly recent invention. Border controls weren't all that common before WWI.

"In 1904, the United Kingdom established the world's first border and immigration control; all residents of Hong Kong were given citizenship as Citizens of United Kingdom and Colonies (CUKC)."

Source

Quote
and in the case of ROI,doesn't even have its own national currency.
Neither does Austria.
Neither does Belgium.
Neither does Cyprus.
Neither does Estonia.
Neither does Finland.
Neither does France.
Neither does Germany.
Neither does Greece.
Neither does Italy.
Neither does Latvia.
Neither does Lithuania.
Neither does Luxembourg.
Neither does Malta.
Neither does Netherlands.
Neither does Portugal.
Neither does Slovakia.
Neither does Slovenia.
Neither does Spain.

T Fearon

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #1434 on: September 15, 2017, 07:32:29 PM »
We are not arguing about those countries.My contention is simply the inability of Ireland,North or South,or together,to be truly independent,sovereign and economically viable.For fifty years this was attempted in the South but miserably failed.Even in the boom years the Republic still went bankrupt.

Sweden,Norway etc are the models of independent nations which sadly Ireland cannot match.

Eamonnca1

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #1435 on: September 15, 2017, 07:39:35 PM »
Sweden is an EU member.

The ROI was doing fine until it joined the Euro. Prior to that the Celtic Tiger was a genuine success story, it was based on exports and competitiveness rather than property speculation, there was no excessive consumption, and with control over its own interest rates it had corrective mechanisms that kicked into place when the economy was in danger of overheating.

There are issues with the way the Eurozone is managed, but the idea that the Free State is an inherently unviable state is tripe.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2017, 07:43:16 PM by Eamonnca1 »

heganboy

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #1436 on: September 15, 2017, 07:52:38 PM »
Sweden,Norway etc are the models of independent nations which sadly Ireland cannot match.

Donald Tony, what about these countries is it that you believe makes them beyond reach?Or more to the point what about those economies make them models for Ireland's achieving your mystical concept of independence (which you can't actually explain)
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Syferus

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #1437 on: September 15, 2017, 07:54:43 PM »
Ireland's doing pretty great, whatever the people in the six counties want to convince themselves of to sleep better at night.

T Fearon

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #1438 on: September 15, 2017, 08:16:40 PM »
It is not viable without being subordinate to a German dominated EU,which provided the structural funds etc.Even with this crutch,the political classes still failed to avoid bankruptcy,requiring a loan solely on the non negotiable EU terms and a EU drafted budget,bringing great hardship for the ordinary indigenous population.

Rossfan

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #1439 on: September 15, 2017, 08:30:03 PM »
Indigenous population???
People with Gaelic surnames?
Descendents of Tuatha De Danann??
No recession in the North?

I believe Montenegro and Kosovo use the also even though not in the EU.
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