The IRISH RUGBY thread

[Dinny Breen]

That's the way in a professional game. Talent follows the money

He'll be a better player for it IMO. Getting exposed to better competition week in week out.

That's a total myth. Name me one player that has improved when going to France? At one stage Lee Byrne was in the top 2 full backs in the world before he went. It didn't improve Mike Phillips nor will it improve Jamie Roberts. I would put the recent demise of Wales down to the fact their top players are spread throughout the French league. It is a long and punishing season where players get burnt out. I fear this could be the beginning of an exodus of top Irish players!

Mick O'Driscoll, Trevor Brennan of the top of my head.

That is the myth - French clubs have massive squads and rotate regularly.

I think it's a great move for Sexton, that type of financial security is fantastic. I think he will become a better player for it too. Remember watching him 4 years ago playing for St Marys, didn't think he'd come to much..

I know those two would be quoted! Were they both at the peak of their careers when they went?? Also neither were regulars on the international stage!

He won't even be playing Heineken Cup next year. If he had joined Clermont or Toulouse I could understand it was purely for rugby reasons!

Trevor was 28, Mick was 25. Pretty much at coming into peak territory there. What Damien Brown, Andrew Farley? John Fogarty, Dave McGowan and David McGowan have all cut professional careers over there. Delon Armitage has been brilliant since he moved to France, player of the year last year. That list can go on and on. Rob Andrew in the 80s spent time in France and became a better player for it.

Welsh players are notorious home birds and struggle to embrace foreign culture. Sexton will become a better player for the experience, the question is will Ireland select him.

[thewobbler]

What about Johnny Wilkinson, he was at his peak when he went after a coming back from serious injury,and his form got him back into the England side.

How many tests has Wilkinson started since joining Toulon? Look fair play to the lad, none of us would turn down the money. I'm just saying I don't believe playing in France will improve him as a player and I do believe if 5/6 top Irish players join him it will have a detrimental effect on the Irish teams performances!

Wilko going to France for a swan song is hardly the same thing as Sexton going as he peaks.

It's a closed-minded view to say the only place to progress is at home. You might get certain dispensations from regular duty being a contracted player in Ireland, but you are still only working with one club coach, playing one club system, playing with one set of club players. Learning and perfecting your skill could do with a bit of variety.

I've no doubt Paul Marshall's rise a scrum half is directly related to watching and learning from Pienaar - but a first choice player probably isn't going to get that bonus by staying loyal.

NZ, Aus and SA are always in the top 5 teams in the world, and they an do so with players flung all across the world.

[the Deel Rover]

I see twitter is saying two year deal with 750,000 per annum. Massive if true.

According to the indo it's €1million per annum Bingo.

[Walter Cronc]

What about Johnny Wilkinson, he was at his peak when he went after a coming back from serious injury,and his form got him back into the England side.

How many tests has Wilkinson started since joining Toulon? Look fair play to the lad, none of us would turn down the money. I'm just saying I don't believe playing in France will improve him as a player and I do believe if 5/6 top Irish players join him it will have a detrimental effect on the Irish teams performances!

Wilko going to France for a swan song is hardly the same thing as Sexton going as he peaks.

It's a closed-minded view to say the only place to progress is at home. You might get certain dispensations from regular duty being a contracted player in Ireland, but you are still only working with one club coach, playing one club system, playing with one set of club players. Learning and perfecting your skill could do with a bit of variety.

I've no doubt Paul Marshall's rise a scrum half is directly related to watching and learning from Pienaar - but a first choice player probably isn't going to get that bonus by staying loyal.

NZ, Aus and SA are always in the top 5 teams in the world, and they an do so with players flung all across the world.

I take all your points on board lads but I still worry that this is the start of things to come. Heaslip and Kearney could follow suit. However I suppose on the plus side it will give younger players a chance. It could be a case of not many Heineken cups coming to Ireland in the next few years.

[johnneycool]

That's the way in a professional game. Talent follows the money

He'll be a better player for it IMO. Getting exposed to better competition week in week out.

That's a total myth. Name me one player that has improved when going to France? At one stage Lee Byrne was in the top 2 full backs in the world before he went. It didn't improve Mike Phillips nor will it improve Jamie Roberts. I would put the recent demise of Wales down to the fact their top players are spread throughout the French league. It is a long and punishing season where players get burnt out. I fear this could be the beginning of an exodus of top Irish players!

I suppose I'd Thomas Bowe in mind when I wrote that. He was a bitsy International in and out of the team, took himself off to Wales and actually got a bit of ball to work with and he improved vastly over there and Ireland reaped the rewards.

[Denn Forever]

Isn't the Heinekin cup not stopping in the near future or is it just that sponsors are changing?

[Walter Cronc]

Tommy Bowe is a classic example of lad that done good and I always admired Murphy for staying loyal to Leicester as they gave him a chance as a young lad! Due to distances quite a few South Africans do well in Europe however I wouldn't say it's the case with kiwis and Aussies. NZ have that home based rule and I'm not ure how great the Aussie set up is!

[rodney trotter]

What about Johnny Wilkinson, he was at his peak when he went after a coming back from serious injury,and his form got him back into the England side.

How many tests has Wilkinson started since joining Toulon? Look fair play to the lad, none of us would turn down the money. I'm just saying I don't believe playing in France will improve him as a player and I do believe if 5/6 top Irish players join him it will have a detrimental effect on the Irish teams performances!

Wilko going to France for a swan song is hardly the same thing as Sexton going as he peaks.

It's a closed-minded view to say the only place to progress is at home. You might get certain dispensations from regular duty being a contracted player in Ireland, but you are still only working with one club coach, playing one club system, playing with one set of club players. Learning and perfecting your skill could do with a bit of variety.

I've no doubt Paul Marshall's rise a scrum half is directly related to watching and learning from Pienaar - but a first choice player probably isn't going to get that bonus by staying loyal.

NZ, Aus and SA are always in the top 5 teams in the world, and they an do so with players flung all across the world.

Is there much difference in 2 years, Sexton will be 28 this year, He would be in his peak by now. Wilkinson was just gone 30 when he went. Whatever about his injuries problems that would still be in his peak. Look at O Gara still playing International's he will be 36 this.

[johnneycool]

All ROG's bone crunching tackles haven't taken much of a toll on him in all fairness. 

[muppet]

Tommy Bowe is a classic example of lad that done good and I always admired Murphy for staying loyal to Leicester as they gave him a chance as a young lad! Due to distances quite a few South Africans do well in Europe however I wouldn't say it's the case with kiwis and Aussies. NZ have that home based rule and I'm not ure how great the Aussie set up is!

How'd that Elsom lad get on over here?

I wonder how many will follow Sexton. There are reasons other than rugby to go. Tax and pensions would be worth a look.

[trileacman]

That's the way in a professional game. Talent follows the money

He'll be a better player for it IMO. Getting exposed to better competition week in week out.

That's a total myth. Name me one player that has improved when going to France? At one stage Lee Byrne was in the top 2 full backs in the world before he went. It didn't improve Mike Phillips nor will it improve Jamie Roberts. I would put the recent demise of Wales down to the fact their top players are spread throughout the French league. It is a long and punishing season where players get burnt out. I fear this could be the beginning of an exodus of top Irish players!

Watched Byrne lately against Leinster and I think he is still among the top full backs in the world.

[trileacman]

No qualms with Sexton's move, fair fucks, but he's being seriously overvalued and the IRFU realised that (+ they couldn't afford him). Must be some money in the French leagues.

Too much scare-mongering here, any right minded Frenchman would realise Heaslip is over-rated. The French have enough dumb, bullock number 8's without him. If they were looking for talent they'll move for Marshall/ Gilroy/ Zebo/ Madigan/ Ryan /O'Mahoney /Healy, young exciting players. Wouldn't be so worried about the exodus YET. I'm surprised they didn't move for Bowe, a proven traveller of considerable size and speed. You can't teach men to grow.

Wasn't Byrne, Hook and Phillips all in France last year during Wales 6N success? That's all shite comparing them to us, the Welsh sides have done sweet f**k all in the Heineken Cup but are a hugely successful international side. Their recent demise is due to loss of players (and management) to injury not the French clubs.

By such thinking I could suggest a player exodus could initiate a successful upturn in the Irish international team's fortunes. Did a number of the All-Blacks not have spells in France prior to their World Cup win (Carter/ Sonny Bill)?

[Bord na Mona man]

Can't blame the lad for looking after the financial side of things.
Potentially €1 million extra in earnings is a lot of wonga considering how many years he'll have to spend as a wage slave after retirement.

The occasional top Irish players leaving is a lot less harmful than an over reliance on imports anyway.
Sexton got his proper run at the big time when Contepomi got injured against Munster in 2009, now hopefully the door will open for someone like Ian Madigan to fill his shoes.

[Hound]

"An exceptional deal for an exceptional player" as Philip Browne of the IRFU put it.

He's probably the biggest shoe-in for the Lions out there, he's the best 10 in the Northern Hemisphere.

Racing are currently 8th or 9th in Top14. Next year I've no doubt they'll be top 4, it'll be money well spent

[muppet]

In an article published on the 17th Jan, Jamie Heaslip was expecting to hand the Ireland Captaincy back to Brian O'Driscoll.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/heaslip-happy-to-hand-the-captaincy-back-to-odriscoll-3355811.html

Later on the 17th Jan Heaslip was appointed Captain, O'Driscoll expressed his 'disappointment' at losing the Captaincy:

http://www.espnscrum.com/six-nations-2013/rugby/story/175777.html

We now know that in Sexton's negotiations he was looking for parity with Heaslip's contract.

Earlier on the 14 Jan we know Sexton was talking to Racing Metro but even Racing didn't sound confident:

http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/sport/sexton-linked-with-move-to-racing-metro-581142.html

Rob Kearney came out in recent days and said Sexton was 'upset' by the IRFU negotiations:

http://www.balls.ie/rugby/rob-kearney-johnny-sexton-was-upset-by-irfu-negotiations/#sthash.Fxxrt1bT.dpbs

I am beginning the think that to justify paying Heaslip more than Sexton they made the hurried decision to promote Heaslip to Captain. This managed to annoy much of Irish rugby by hurriedly demoting O'Driscoll without him (apparently) being prepared for it. A proper heads up is a courtesy O'Driscoll deserved at a minimum. Meanwhile Sexton, who obviously didn't want to go to France, saw through this farce and just walked.