Apple's data centre in Athenry

[Franko]

I don't agree, Hound. Apple use tax avoidance to pay huge dividends to the people who own most Apple shares, the richest 1%.
They pay minimal tax. This is a system issue. It is one of the reasons Eurozone and US growth are abysmal. And it is not sustainable.

That's not correct Seafoid.

Any dividends paid by Apple have to go through the US. Apple pay US 35% tax on all US earnings and on all worldwide earnings that are repatriated to the US.

Apple use their offshore earnings to fund non-US acquisitions.

Anyone can buy Apple shares, you don't have to be rich. The share price has been on an upward curve for most of the time. But it does go down from time to time too.

The majority of shares in the US are held by the richest 1% , Hound. Apple is a Monopoly play.
I see the argument that Apple refuse to pay tax in the US because it it too high in the FT all the time. Why do they use tax scams? Because the company is a mechanism to get cash out to.the 1%.
All the MNCs are doing it. A 5% dividend yield keeps the share price up even if revenues are flat. Zurich Insurance made $ 2 bn  or so in profit last year and paid $3bn in dividends. This is the latest fashion in corporate finance .

Seafoid, you are a great man to ignore responses and retaining your mantra about the evil 1%.

As I've said, if a US headquartered company, such as Apple, is paying a dividend to shareholders, that dividend is coming out of profits that have been taxed at 35%.

The profits they make using Irish structures are not used to pay dividends. They can't pay dividends without routing the money through the US. They can't route the money to the US without paying 35% US tax.

Hound,  you are definitely more knowledgeable than me on this topic* but is seafoid's point not that they are able to pay huge dividends in the US with their 'legitimate' cash because they have a reserve stash of 'untaxed' cash in offshore accounts available to fund their other operations.

If they had to funnel the rest of their cash through the US legitimately, the cash pile for 'foreign acquisitions' wouldn't be just as monstrous and some of that wealth may actually be spread between the 99% and not just distributed to those at the top of the pile.

*so feel free to wipe the floor with my argument

[Eamonnca1]

No, it's pretty sustainable given we also have unique advantages being the only English speaking member of the EU and a highly skilled workforce to meet the demands of these high-skilled jobs.

In general our pro-business approach has been a massive success in high-value industries like technology, although being so pro-business also enabled the property boom and bust. We're the envy of many countries, including our EU partners who tried their dambedest to use the bailout to get us to cave on our corporation tax and thankfully failed miserably.

Our biggest mistake would be concerning ourselves with the opinions of vested interests like US sentators or the EU. I couldn't give a toss what any journalist thinks about our tax system and nor, I imagine, do the government. We need someone to mow the lawn, not landscape the garden.

What if the state is under-funded? If there's not enough money to treat the sick, build a decent amount of social housing and pay enough to railway workers to stop them from going on strike then how sustainable is it?

[Syferus]

No, it's pretty sustainable given we also have unique advantages being the only English speaking member of the EU and a highly skilled workforce to meet the demands of these high-skilled jobs.

In general our pro-business approach has been a massive success in high-value industries like technology, although being so pro-business also enabled the property boom and bust. We're the envy of many countries, including our EU partners who tried their dambedest to use the bailout to get us to cave on our corporation tax and thankfully failed miserably.

Our biggest mistake would be concerning ourselves with the opinions of vested interests like US sentators or the EU. I couldn't give a toss what any journalist thinks about our tax system and nor, I imagine, do the government. We need someone to mow the lawn, not landscape the garden.

What if the state is under-funded? If there's not enough money to treat the sick, build a decent amount of social housing and pay enough to railway workers to stop them from going on strike then how sustainable is it?

If you saw how much money a lot of transport staff are making you might have less sympathy for them. As an aside, their jobs will be largely replaced by AI-controlled autonomous transport developed by the very same technology companies we've attracted with our tax rates in the next few decades. It will probably be the only way semi-state transport companies will stem their continual losses.

Ireland is far, far ahead of the bell curve on the worldwide scale when it comes to social supports. But a lot seem to be unwilling to admit we're already doing a pretty remarkable job on that front overall.

[seafoid]

Hound

If the 35% issue got in the way of dividends and buybacks Apple would have cut a deal. The top.10 tech firms' share prices are up 30% this year because they are making super profits and paying very little tax. Earnings per share is the metric.

Apple has a cash pile of $252 bn offshore. How much has it spent on acquisitions in the last 5 years?

https://www.ft.com/content/3327c766-c325-11e7-b2bb-322b2cb39656

"Apple advisers at US law firm Baker Mackenzie approached Appleby, the offshore law firm at the heart of the Paradise Papers leak, in 2014 about available tax structures in the Cayman Islands, the British Virgin Islands, Bermuda, the Isle of Man, Guernsey and Jersey, according to the ICIJ. One of the emails from Baker Mackenzie to Appleby, released by the ICIJ, stated: "Confirm that an Irish company can conduct management activities . . . without being subject to taxation in your jurisdiction." The ICIJ said Apple eventually "settled on Jersey . . . [which was to] play a significant role in Apple's newly configured Irish tax structure set up in late 2014". "Under this arrangement, the MacBook-maker has continued to enjoy ultra-low tax rates on most of its profits and now holds much of its non-US earnings in a $252bn mountain of cash offshore"

What matters is how the system works

https://www.ft.com/content/94063982-ba97-11e7-8c12-5661783e5589

"Every percentage point drop in the corporate tax rate results in a $1 rise in earnings per share for the S&P 500, according to Vinay Pande, head of short-term investment opportunities at UBS Wealth Management. "[Corporate] profit share of GDP is rising and if there is a tax cut it will rise more," he said. "The thing about equities, you trade the profit share of GDP. If someone reduces regulation, cuts taxes, does not empower labour unions . . . the profit share will go up." Mr Pande added that sentiment among investors had also shifted because of the strong gains by the market this year, with the Nasdaq and Dow Jones Industrial Average both up more than 18 per cent in 2017. The S&P 500 technology index has gained more than 30 per cent this year, compared to the broader benchmark's 14.4 per cent rise"

[heganboy]

Lads I'm not sure where you're getting some of those stats, they seem significantly off to me.

There's no way that the 1% own the majority of US equity.

Ok looked it up, Mutual funds have 20% pension funds have 16 and insurance holdings are 7%.

[seafoid]

Lads I'm not sure where you're getting some of those stats, they seem significantly off to me.

There's no way that the 1% own the majority of US equity.

Ok looked it up, Mutual funds have 20% pension funds have 16 and insurance holdings are 7%.

they own most bonds as well.

[seafoid]

https://www.ft.com/content/0de96cb6-c4ce-11e7-a1d2-6786f39ef675

Taxpayers in the wealthiest 1 per cent of US households stand to receive nearly half the benefit of the Republicans' tax overhaul by 2027, according to a think-tank. Their after-tax incomes would likely be boosted 2.2 per cent, while lower income taxpayers would see little change, according to new analysis of the House of Representatives' tax reform bill by the Tax Policy Center. Those in the middle would see a 0.4 per cent lift.

[Bord na Mona man]

This one is in the bin.
A bad week for Athenry.

[magpie seanie]

It's an absolute scandal but typical of this country unfortunately. Galway has 100% employment. Apple should have been provided for in another part of the country where the jobs and development are needed.

[Rossfan]

Cavan, Monaghan, Leitrim, Roscommon, Sligo, Mayo, Midlands. .... would love to get such a facility.
However multinationals seem only interested in being in or near Dublin, Cork, Limerick,  Galway and Dundalk.

[macdanger2]

People should be entitled to protest / object to developments but it's shite that it takes so bloody long. Something needs to be done to speed up the process without prioritising the rights of companies over the rights of individuals

[trileacman]

People should be entitled to protest / object to developments but it's shite that it takes so bloody long. Something needs to be done to speed up the process without prioritising the rights of companies over the rights of individuals

That's the crux of the problem. Everyone's screaming today about losing this centre but if it had have went through it would have been the opposite and the headline would have been "multinational tramps over citizens concerns".

The hypocrisy in society grows more obvious and unapologetic by the day. One of the few consistencies in life is the insistence that someone, somewhere done something wrong and they're to blame.

[AQMP]

This one is in the bin.
A bad week for Athenry.

Paul Kimmage has a lot to answer for.

[Itchy]

Cavan, Monaghan, Leitrim, Roscommon, Sligo, Mayo, Midlands. .... would love to get such a facility.
However multinationals seem only interested in being in or near Dublin, Cork, Limerick,  Galway and Dundalk.

I think the multinationals are simply not being brought to these places. Galway is a p***k of a place to start a  new multinational. Hard to get people, shit traffic. 

[Syferus]

Cavan, Monaghan, Leitrim, Roscommon, Sligo, Mayo, Midlands. .... would love to get such a facility.
However multinationals seem only interested in being in or near Dublin, Cork, Limerick,  Galway and Dundalk.

You haven't a clue what's needed to run a server farm if you think Roscommon or any of the places you named bar maybe Sligo have anything close to the infrastructure needed.