Where next for Law and Order in NI?

[carribbear]

It means then that the Brits can act as if they are there to keep two factions apart. They can then tell the world that the two sides are fighting each other and the Brits are actually trying to keep the peace. If the Brits are attacked it can be broadcast to the world that 'peace keeping Brit forces were attacked' rather than the truth which is 'occupying forces were attacked.'They have been doing this since the 70s.

"Occupying forces", is it? Do you mean by that those Sappers in Antrim, who had been there for 18 months, without anyone hardly even noticing? Or their Pizza-delivering "collaborators"? Or the Catholic cop murdered answering a call to a break-in?

In so far as there is a British "occupation" of Ireland, it is constituted by the majority presence of 1 million Britons in NI. And unless or until that changes (and it hasn't over the last 400 years, btw), then the whole world accepts that NI will remain British.

That being so, however, the British Government has absolutely no desire to have to deploy the army on the streets of NI if it can possibly avoid it. If nothing else, they are already being stretched to breaking point by Iraq, Afghanistan and the threat of Islamic terrorism at home. And that's before you start to add up the bill for a renewed military deployment in NI, in these recessionary times.

Might be a nice way to withdraw troops from the middle east by saying they are needed back in NI....

[Evil Genius]

It means then that the Brits can act as if they are there to keep two factions apart. They can then tell the world that the two sides are fighting eachother and the Brits are actually trying to keep the peace. If the Brits are attacked it can be broadcast to the world that 'peace keeping Brit forces were attacked' rather than the truth which is 'occupying forces were attacked.'They have been doing this since the 70s.

We currently have peace or the nearest the North has had in decades . Why would want too Brits start a proxy war to attack the R/CIRA ?

Jeez, Gnevin, just how naive can you be? It's because they're Brits. You know, the ones who have been responsible for every bad thing that has ever happened to Ireland, from the weather, to potato blight, to Steve Staunton being given the manager's job of the ROI football team...

[Gnevin]

That would be my fear too Tony, which would restart the "dirty war" and would lead to resentment in the Nationalist/Republican communities.

What benefit would it be to the British Intelligence Services/Army/Government to restart the "dirty war" if they could possibly avoid it? There are already two other wars on, in case you hadn't noticed, both of them potentially a hell of a sight more dangerous to the UK than little old NI.

Could be as simple as someone with a grudge or some hun who hankers for the old days of carson.

So the R/CIRA are responsible for none of their actions it was the "hun" that made them do it . Pathetic.

Those organisations are rotten with agents and touts, i'd be very surprised if the crown weren't aware of upcoming attacks.

And instead of using there inside information to arrest them in the act, they decided to allow these attacks too achieve what?  All the people here who believe the British organised this have yet too state an end goal.

[Gnevin]

It means then that the Brits can act as if they are there to keep two factions apart. They can then tell the world that the two sides are fighting each other and the Brits are actually trying to keep the peace. If the Brits are attacked it can be broadcast to the world that 'peace keeping Brit forces were attacked' rather than the truth which is 'occupying forces were attacked.'They have been doing this since the 70s.

"Occupying forces", is it? Do you mean by that those Sappers in Antrim, who had been there for 18 months, without anyone hardly even noticing? Or their Pizza-delivering "collaborators"? Or the Catholic cop murdered answering a call to a break-in?

In so far as there is a British "occupation" of Ireland, it is constituted by the majority presence of 1 million Britons in NI. And unless or until that changes (and it hasn't over the last 400 years, btw), then the whole world accepts that NI will remain British.

That being so, however, the British Government has absolutely no desire to have to deploy the army on the streets of NI if it can possibly avoid it. If nothing else, they are already being stretched to breaking point by Iraq, Afghanistan and the threat of Islamic terrorism at home. And that's before you start to add up the bill for a renewed military deployment in NI, in these recessionary times.

Might be a nice way to withdraw troops from the middle east by saying they are needed back in NI....

Purple monkey dishwasher?

[carribbear]

It means then that the Brits can act as if they are there to keep two factions apart. They can then tell the world that the two sides are fighting eachother and the Brits are actually trying to keep the peace. If the Brits are attacked it can be broadcast to the world that 'peace keeping Brit forces were attacked' rather than the truth which is 'occupying forces were attacked.'They have been doing this since the 70s.

We currently have peace or the nearest the North has had in decades . Why would want too Brits start a proxy war to attack the R/CIRA ?

Jeez, Gnevin, just how naive can you be? It's because they're Brits. You know, the ones who have been responsible for every bad thing that has ever happened to Ireland, from the weather, to potato blight, to Steve Staunton being given the manager's job of the ROI football team...

...up to stealing the local land and giving it to planters, Cromwell in Drogheda, Miami Showband etc...

[carribbear]

It means then that the Brits can act as if they are there to keep two factions apart. They can then tell the world that the two sides are fighting each other and the Brits are actually trying to keep the peace. If the Brits are attacked it can be broadcast to the world that 'peace keeping Brit forces were attacked' rather than the truth which is 'occupying forces were attacked.'They have been doing this since the 70s.

"Occupying forces", is it? Do you mean by that those Sappers in Antrim, who had been there for 18 months, without anyone hardly even noticing? Or their Pizza-delivering "collaborators"? Or the Catholic cop murdered answering a call to a break-in?

In so far as there is a British "occupation" of Ireland, it is constituted by the majority presence of 1 million Britons in NI. And unless or until that changes (and it hasn't over the last 400 years, btw), then the whole world accepts that NI will remain British.

That being so, however, the British Government has absolutely no desire to have to deploy the army on the streets of NI if it can possibly avoid it. If nothing else, they are already being stretched to breaking point by Iraq, Afghanistan and the threat of Islamic terrorism at home. And that's before you start to add up the bill for a renewed military deployment in NI, in these recessionary times.

Might be a nice way to withdraw troops from the middle east by saying they are needed back in NI....

Purple monkey dishwasher?

Good to see you've got your finger on the pulse

[Zapatista]

It means then that the Brits can act as if they are there to keep two factions apart. They can then tell the world that the two sides are fighting each other and the Brits are actually trying to keep the peace. If the Brits are attacked it can be broadcast to the world that 'peace keeping Brit forces were attacked' rather than the truth which is 'occupying forces were attacked.'They have been doing this since the 70s.

"Occupying forces", is it? Do you mean by that those Sappers in Antrim, who had been there for 18 months, without anyone hardly even noticing? Or their Pizza-delivering "collaborators"? Or the Catholic cop murdered answering a call to a break-in?

In so far as there is a British "occupation" of Ireland, it is constituted by the majority presence of 1 million Britons in NI. And unless or until that changes (and it hasn't over the last 400 years, btw), then the whole world accepts that NI will remain British.

That being so, however, the British Government has absolutely no desire to have to deploy the army on the streets of NI if it can possibly avoid it. If nothing else, they are already being stretched to breaking point by Iraq, Afghanistan and the threat of Islamic terrorism at home. And that's before you start to add up the bill for a renewed military deployment in NI, in these recessionary times.

Yes I mean those that were in Antrim along with the rest of the British army. Not the Pizza delivery Guys or the Cop but the British Army.

I don't accept that the north will remain british so that's one point you are wrong on. NI hasn't even existed for 100 years never mind 400 ?

I have no faith in the British government or what they desire. I do know that where the British army go is not always their choice in fact it was the choice of the USA not so long ago.

[red hander]

'It's because they're Brits. You know, the ones who have been responsible for every bad thing that has ever happened to Ireland, from the weather, to potato blight, to Steve Staunton being given the manager's job of the ROI football team...'

Unnecessarily facetious considering the subject being discussed.  The British/English have a HELL of a lot to answer for over the past 800 years and are a core cause of the island's political problems ... that can't be denied by anyone

[Zapatista]

And who's going to deal with the Dissident problem in NI, then? The Boy Scouts? How many more deaths must it take before you accept the need to take effective action to counter the Dissident threat? Or are you not actually too concerned by the deaths?

Maybe an Irish army could deal with it? I don't need any deaths to accept that I just differ from you on what is effective action. I am concerned why would you think otherwise?

[Evil Genius]

Not all Brits want peace. The Brits are here and they want to be in control of everyone.

Which is why they are devolving "control" to Stormont, even to their former enemies in the IRA. That figures.

They are an occupying force and are unwelcome

Them and a million others. Or haven't you noticed those million Brits to the North East of the island?

in order for them to stay they need a purpose and there is no more noble purpose for the Brits than to keep the peace between two fighting Irish tribes.

You claim the Brits need a "purpose"* to be in NI. Fine. So what do you think their motive is? Oil?

Un-be-fuckin-lievable.  


* - I assume you actually mean "pretext"...

[Evil Genius]

'It's because they're Brits. You know, the ones who have been responsible for every bad thing that has ever happened to Ireland, from the weather, to potato blight, to Steve Staunton being given the manager's job of the ROI football team...'

Unnecessarily facetious considering the subject being discussed.  The British/English have a HELL of a lot to answer for over the past 800 years and are a core cause of the island's political problems ... that can't be denied by anyone

I didn't mean to be facetious, I was merely trying to point out the idiocy being spouted by certain posters on this thread, who seem to think that the British have some ulterior motive for being on NI, which causes them deliberately to want to restart the (so-called) "Dirty War", by infiltrating the Dissidents and sending them off to murder (British) Squaddies and Peelers. 

[Zapatista]

 

[Gnevin]

You claim the Brits need a "purpose"* to be in NI. Fine. So what do you think their motive is? Oil?

Un-be-fuckin-lievable.  


* - I assume you actually mean "pretext"...

Are you intentionally ignoring that I don't consider the Brits as only those sitting around a table in Downing st?

If there is a UI there is an end to the Union and an end to British influence globally. Obama would drop them like a hot stone and that would only be the start.

Their is more realistic chance of the scots voting to leave the Union than a Majority being formed in the North in the next 10-20 years. Are the British attempting to create a proxy war over their? I can see an end of the Union when NI left , however I don't see why it would be an end too British influence or why anyone would drop them like a stone.

[Zapatista]

Their is more realistic chance of the scots voting to leave the Union than a Majority being formed in the North in the next 10-20 years. Are the British attempting to create a proxy war over their? I can see an end of the Union when NI left , however I don't see why it would be an end too British influence or why anyone would drop them like a stone.

If and when the scots leave it will be on an arrangement that suits the union and not a second before that. It would be a far cry from being forced to leave through arms or through political pressure from an already independant ROI and the devolved Government.

[Evil Genius]

Yes I mean those that were in Antrim along with the rest of the British army. Not the Pizza delivery Guys or the Cop but the British Army.

Wow, I feel for your pain. I have no idea how you manage to tolerate the overwhelmingly oppressive burden of being occupied by a couple of hundred Engineers in a barracks in Antrim, who inflict outrageous treatment on the natives like ordering Pizza from them on a Saturday night...

I don't accept that the north will remain british so that's one point you are wrong on.  

Maybe it will, maybe it won't. But the fact is it is British for now. so do you accept that, or do you think it legitimate to engage in "armed struggle" in order to change it?

NI hasn't even existed for 100 years never mind 400 ?

NI has existed and been British for 88 years. Before that, the whole of Ireland was British for at least 200 years, arguably 400 years, depending on how you measure it. Most people seem to accept that, whilst getting on with life in 2009. I am sorry you do not appear able to do so.

I have no faith in the British government or what they desire. I do know that where the British army go is not always their choice in fact it was the choice of the USA not so long ago.

Of course the British Army goes where it is told. Who do you think it is telling them to go back to NI this time? The Yanks again?