French Terrorist Attacks

[Milltown Row2]

Franko
Do you really think ISIS are going to convert the likes of T Fernon to Islam. How do you think they are gona go about this

They stand up for what they believe in, have a totally corrupt hierarchy and they definitely don't like the gays so there's a fair chance Tony has already defected!

Yep and they seem to keep women as sex slaves too..... Tony was all for sex before marriage

[give her dixie]

I've never understood why IS/Al Qaeda etc have never attacked westerners in Dubai/Abu Dhabi/Doha!

Are these states keeping the lads sweet with cash for the cause as such??

They havn't attacked much in Israel either.....

[Franko]

I've never understood why IS/Al Qaeda etc have never attacked westerners in Dubai/Abu Dhabi/Doha!

Are these states keeping the lads sweet with cash for the cause as such??

They havn't attacked much in Israel either.....

Genuine question here GHD but what are you alluding to with this comment??

[Walter Cronc]

I've never understood why IS/Al Qaeda etc have never attacked westerners in Dubai/Abu Dhabi/Doha!

Are these states keeping the lads sweet with cash for the cause as such??

They havn't attacked much in Israel either.....

Genuine question here GHD but what are you alluding to with this comment??

Mine was a genuine question.

[give her dixie]

I've never understood why IS/Al Qaeda etc have never attacked westerners in Dubai/Abu Dhabi/Doha!

Are these states keeping the lads sweet with cash for the cause as such??

They havn't attacked much in Israel either.....

Genuine question here GHD but what are you alluding to with this comment??

Israel have been backing the "Syrian Rebels" in return for them not attacking Israel.

They are up to their necks in the war in Syria, and no doubt, many a dirty deal has been struck

[Franko]

I've never understood why IS/Al Qaeda etc have never attacked westerners in Dubai/Abu Dhabi/Doha!

Are these states keeping the lads sweet with cash for the cause as such??

They havn't attacked much in Israel either.....

Genuine question here GHD but what are you alluding to with this comment??

Mine was a genuine question.

??

[imtommygunn]

http://www.spiegel.de/international/the-future-of-terrorism-what-al-qaida-really-wants-a-369448.html



Written 2005.

[Edit] A friend sent me this on.

[seafoid]

I've never understood why IS/Al Qaeda etc have never attacked westerners in Dubai/Abu Dhabi/Doha!

Are these states keeping the lads sweet with cash for the cause as such??

They havn't attacked much in Israel either.....

I think some future iteration of them will end up in Gaza the way Israel's management of the Palestinians is going.
IS currently only fight enemies they know are weak - eg the Syrian Army, almost bankrupt after 4 years of war and the Iraqi Army who didn't even show up in Mosul, possibly because of a cash deal.

[seafoid]

There will be no elimination of anything. There never is. Eventually the doves on both sides will have to talk, it might take 20 years of bombing and killing but that's what will happen. Anyone who thinks they can fight a war to victory is not learning from history in this type of conflict.

I agree about not learning from history but this scenario is unprecedented.

There are no doves in ISIS itchy with respect. That's the crux of the problem. There will be no negotiation with anybody of any stature in ISIS. They wont want to talk anyway and anyone captured alive will be tried for mass murder/'war crimes'

I used the word unprecedented and no doubt somebody will have a precedent but this movement is driven by an interpretation of a religion. It is not about resources, imperialism etc. It is driven by religious dogma.

if this is nurtured and allowed to continue for 20 years, expect a lot of bombing in cities near us. History has also taught us that you cant allow a cult (like the Nazis were) to fester and get momentum.

It's a byproduct of Sunni grievances as well.
These have to be addressed.

In the north the Brits eventually understood that it was required to spend lots of money on infrastructure and social stuff to defang the paramilitaries. Same in Syria/Iraq.

This is on a completely different level.  The indoctrination of these people has happened.  These beliefs are now ingrained and a few roads and hospitals will not remove them.  Even during the worst of the troubles there was still some semblance of social order in the north.  In Syria the lunatics have taken over the asylum.

It is Franko but if you whack the IS mole another will pop up because of the grievances.

What are these grievances?

Anything seafoid?

In Iraq, Shia brutality (eg death squads) against the Sunni minority which for years was in power. Now the Shia run the show.

In Syria, lack of access to power and all the goodies that go with it. Assad is a Shia so most of the most powerful jobs and associated patronage go to his cronies.

[Itchy]

There will be no elimination of anything. There never is. Eventually the doves on both sides will have to talk, it might take 20 years of bombing and killing but that's what will happen. Anyone who thinks they can fight a war to victory is not learning from history in this type of conflict.

I agree about not learning from history but this scenario is unprecedented.

There are no doves in ISIS itchy with respect. That's the crux of the problem. There will be no negotiation with anybody of any stature in ISIS. They wont want to talk anyway and anyone captured alive will be tried for mass murder/'war crimes'

I used the word unprecedented and no doubt somebody will have a precedent but this movement is driven by an interpretation of a religion. It is not about resources, imperialism etc. It is driven by religious dogma.

if this is nurtured and allowed to continue for 20 years, expect a lot of bombing in cities near us. History has also taught us that you cant allow a cult (like the Nazis were) to fester and get momentum.

I don't believe that there are no doves. They might be few and far between but there have to be some. The alternative is blowing up and yes murdering innocent Muslims which will mean less doves and more slaughter in the west. There is no choice but to develop channels to talk, that is the lesson of history no matter how unpalatable it is to most

That is the problem with this version of extreme Islam, western people by living their day to day lives are seen to be against Islam and therefore need to be wiped out.

These people are not wanting to be given better schools and hospitals by the west, they are going back to the ancient Islam that allows them to bring back slavery, crucifixion and all the other ancient evil that comes from the Koran. They are working toward an apocalypse where they believe there will be an all out war that will see the end of the world. Therefore these attacks are designed to spread fear yes, but also to draw the west further into what these jihad's believe will be that war which they seek.

There is no negotiation or mediation with this brand of Islamic violence, which is a scary thought in itself.

One of the guys who shot those people was born and bred in Belgium. Western attacks on the west and poverty made him an easy concert to the mind control of Isis. It's the leaders in these areas that need to talked to and any other leaders that can be found. If Isis cannot find easy converts then they are toothless. It is the ONLY way to solve this problem

[seafoid]

There will be no elimination of anything. There never is. Eventually the doves on both sides will have to talk, it might take 20 years of bombing and killing but that's what will happen. Anyone who thinks they can fight a war to victory is not learning from history in this type of conflict.

I agree about not learning from history but this scenario is unprecedented.

There are no doves in ISIS itchy with respect. That's the crux of the problem. There will be no negotiation with anybody of any stature in ISIS. They wont want to talk anyway and anyone captured alive will be tried for mass murder/'war crimes'

I used the word unprecedented and no doubt somebody will have a precedent but this movement is driven by an interpretation of a religion. It is not about resources, imperialism etc. It is driven by religious dogma.

if this is nurtured and allowed to continue for 20 years, expect a lot of bombing in cities near us. History has also taught us that you cant allow a cult (like the Nazis were) to fester and get momentum.

I don't believe that there are no doves. They might be few and far between but there have to be some. The alternative is blowing up and yes murdering innocent Muslims which will mean less doves and more slaughter in the west. There is no choice but to develop channels to talk, that is the lesson of history no matter how unpalatable it is to most

That is the problem with this version of extreme Islam, western people by living their day to day lives are seen to be against Islam and therefore need to be wiped out.

These people are not wanting to be given better schools and hospitals by the west, they are going back to the ancient Islam that allows them to bring back slavery, crucifixion and all the other ancient evil that comes from the Koran. They are working toward an apocalypse where they believe there will be an all out war that will see the end of the world. Therefore these attacks are designed to spread fear yes, but also to draw the west further into what these jihad's believe will be that war which they seek.

There is no negotiation or mediation with this brand of Islamic violence, which is a scary thought in itself.

One of the guys who shot those people was born and bred in Belgium. Western attacks on the west and poverty made him an easy concert to the mind control of Isis. It's the leaders in these areas that need to talked to and any other leaders that can be found. If Isis cannot find easy converts then they are toothless. It is the ONLY way to solve this problem

This is a very good video :
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/cifamerica/video/2011/oct/31/scott-atran-us-foreign-policy-video

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/nov/15/terrorists-isis

"We have "counter-narratives", unappealing and unsuccessful. Mostly negative, they rely on mass messaging at youth rather than intimate dialogue. As one former Isis imam told us: "The young who came to us were not to be lectured at like witless children; they are for the most part understanding and compassionate, but misguided." Again, there is discernible method in the Isis approach.
Eager to recruit, the group may spend hundreds of hours trying to enlist a single individual, to learn how their personal problems and grievances fit into a universal theme of persecution against all Muslims."

I think identifying the kind of people who drift off to ISIS and offering them something better would be one way to start.

[armaghniac]

I think identifying the kind of people who drift off to ISIS and offering them something better would be one way to start.

Better in what way. It isn't poverty as such, people are much better off in Belgium than any place run by ISIS. Jihadi John had an IT degree, and should have been able to make a decent life for himself. Many of these people seek something other than the Mé  Féin value free  society that many in the West advocate.

[moysider]

I think identifying the kind of people who drift off to ISIS and offering them something better would be one way to start.

Better in what way. It isn't poverty as such, people are much better off in Belgium than any place run by ISIS. Jihadi John had an IT degree, and should have been able to make a decent life for himself. Many of these people seek something other than the Mé  Féin value free  society that many in the West advocate.

In Britain anyway they are identifying and intervening with those at risk already .... as you would expect.
But as you say this is not about having a good job and a nice house.
This is about a brutal dogma and brainwashing. No doubt intervention can help and brainwashing can be reversed. But the core drivers of this belief have to addressed. The numbers of these hardcore believers could be few enough. Remove these and the movement will stall imo. Just like when the Nazi leadership was destroyed, most of the rest went back to being ordinary Germans again.

[Milltown Row2]

A neighbour of mine (a family from Islamabad) who are very well educated, couple of houses good jobs and with children who have worked really hard , in great universities in London (all A star results).

The son was at college doing well but having   been a top student to a normal student with other lads better than him in his class, he felt as if he was underachieving... While at the college during that time he was being picked on, lets say by radicals within this top London college... His father got wind of this and took him home... He's been home ever since and dropped out...

My point is that none educated no money kids and educated and plenty money kids is not the issue, if the timing is right then anybody can be enlisted

[armaghniac]

A neighbour of mine (a family from Islamabad) who are very well educated, couple of houses good jobs and with children who have worked really hard , in great universities in London (all A star results).

All that education and he still ends up in black hole in N. Belfast. Islamabad must be bad.