The Many Faces of US Politics...

[whitey]

Think history will view the Obama presidency favourably. From what I can see he will leave the USA in a better place economically than when he arrived and for that imo he deserves credit. Likewise Gordon Brown in Britian................ the right man in power at the right time and while he lost the election I get the feeling people in the UK only now realising how well   (compared to others ) he did at the time of the economic crisis.

Eisenhower, Nixon and even Reagan would probably not survive a Republican nomination process nowadays given its swing to the right.

LOL-Its not April 1st!!!

No. Just a differing opinion Whitey. We can agree to disagree so.

Absolutely

[J70]

'the lies that were just uncovered'. 

The ones that an army of lawyers are still looking for and that you can't point to?

This isn't exactly Geroge W. Bush territory is it?

The whole legislation was based on a lie-and now we have the smoking gun.

What the army of lawyers are looking for is evidence of PERJURY-lying under oath.

Not to mention Obamas famous quote from the last election (which has already proven to be bullshit)

"If you like your plan you can keep your plan. PERIOD"

How is government run healthcare working for you guys in Ireland??? Last time i checked it was an unmitigated disaster

(As for George W Bush if you want to discuss the war in Iraq, please start another thread and I will be happy to discuss it with you. In fact I will probably agree with you on 90% of your points.)

Beyond the Medicaid expansion, how is Obamacare comparable to the Irish system. It's a set of rules about private health insurance.

And what "lie" was Obamacare "based" on?

Yeah, he screwed up the "everyone can keep their current plan" statement, but it was also clear to anyone paying attention that going forward all plans would have to meet a minimum set of standards.

[deiseach]

Beyond the Medicaid expansion, how is Obamacare comparable to the Irish system. It's a set of rules about private health insurance.

I wish we had Obamacare in Ireland. As muppet noted earlier, the healthy subsidise the sick. As things stand here, we have a lot of healthy people who are assuming they will always be healthy and avoiding paying for insurance. Sure, lots of them don't get sick, but for those who do the pot of money to pay for their care is correspondingly smaller because so few people are paying into it.

Obama's legacy depends on making his health care reforms stick. It's still up in the air.

[whitey]

'the lies that were just uncovered'. 

The ones that an army of lawyers are still looking for and that you can't point to?

This isn't exactly Geroge W. Bush territory is it?

The whole legislation was based on a lie-and now we have the smoking gun.

What the army of lawyers are looking for is evidence of PERJURY-lying under oath.

Not to mention Obamas famous quote from the last election (which has already proven to be bullshit)

"If you like your plan you can keep your plan. PERIOD"

How is government run healthcare working for you guys in Ireland??? Last time i checked it was an unmitigated disaster

(As for George W Bush if you want to discuss the war in Iraq, please start another thread and I will be happy to discuss it with you. In fact I will probably agree with you on 90% of your points.)

Beyond the Medicaid expansion, how is Obamacare comparable to the Irish system. It's a set of rules about private health insurance.

And what "lie" was Obamacare "based" on?

Yeah, he screwed up the "everyone can keep their current plan" statement, but it was also clear to anyone paying attention that going forward all plans would have to meet a minimum set of standards.

We could spend a week going around in circles on this.

I guess time will tell

However some of the early Republican concerns about the program, that were denied by Obama and his surrogates are now proven true

BTW...I heard there are even more juicy video clips on the way

[heganboy]

you do have to wonder if there is anyone out there at least attempting to keep the Republicans on the straight and narrow.

Next stop Net neutrality.

Rather than have me butcher this- head over to the oatmeal to see the reaction to visionary genius Republican Ted Cruz

http://theoatmeal.com/blog/net_neutrality

[J70]

'the lies that were just uncovered'. 

The ones that an army of lawyers are still looking for and that you can't point to?

This isn't exactly Geroge W. Bush territory is it?

The whole legislation was based on a lie-and now we have the smoking gun.

What the army of lawyers are looking for is evidence of PERJURY-lying under oath.

Not to mention Obamas famous quote from the last election (which has already proven to be bullshit)

"If you like your plan you can keep your plan. PERIOD"

How is government run healthcare working for you guys in Ireland??? Last time i checked it was an unmitigated disaster

(As for George W Bush if you want to discuss the war in Iraq, please start another thread and I will be happy to discuss it with you. In fact I will probably agree with you on 90% of your points.)

Beyond the Medicaid expansion, how is Obamacare comparable to the Irish system. It's a set of rules about private health insurance.

And what "lie" was Obamacare "based" on?

Yeah, he screwed up the "everyone can keep their current plan" statement, but it was also clear to anyone paying attention that going forward all plans would have to meet a minimum set of standards.

We could spend a week going around in circles on this.

I guess time will tell

However some of the early Republican concerns about the program, that were denied by Obama and his surrogates are now proven true

BTW...I heard there are even more juicy video clips on the way

The couple of pieces I've heard about these videos so far - if anyone DID NOT realize that people would be taxed for opting out (didn't the Supreme court rule just that in 2012) or that insurance companies were likely to  pass on any taxes they were required to pay, then they really ARE as stupid as this arrogant, arsehole professor seems to think.

What is the problem here - that Mr Gruber is a tool, or that people were somehow "deceived"? Fox NEws and the odious, skin crawling Tucker Carlson will beat this to death with their usual fake outrage (where was all this concern about transparency and lying by the White House ten years ago?), but I seriously doubt if this will have any long term impact. The upcoming Supreme Court case will be the key - if they rule that the subsidies are illegal due to the way the law is worded, then that will be a massive problem. If that turns out the case, it should be fun watching Republicans celebrate millions losing their health insurance.

[muppet]

'the lies that were just uncovered'. 

The ones that an army of lawyers are still looking for and that you can't point to?

This isn't exactly Geroge W. Bush territory is it?

The whole legislation was based on a lie-and now we have the smoking gun.

What the army of lawyers are looking for is evidence of PERJURY-lying under oath.

Not to mention Obamas famous quote from the last election (which has already proven to be bullshit)

"If you like your plan you can keep your plan. PERIOD"

How is government run healthcare working for you guys in Ireland??? Last time i checked it was an unmitigated disaster

(As for George W Bush if you want to discuss the war in Iraq, please start another thread and I will be happy to discuss it with you. In fact I will probably agree with you on 90% of your points.)

Which lie was that again?

Healthcare in Ireland is not ideal but it available to everyone.

I see some hospitals are refusing to treat Obamacare patients.

http://www.westernjournalism.com/top-hospitals-wont-treat-obamacare-patients/

But not to worry. For should Democrats have their way, hospitals may be forced into treating ALL patients, regardless of their insurance coverage.

Imagine that!

Whatever problems and delays we have here, we don't refuse treatment to sick people. I have had the misfortune to sit awaiting (ultimately excellent) treatment in the US while the issue of how they would be paid was sorted. While there was a doubt about payment, I had to wait. In a proper society (never mind the richest country in the world) everyone is entitled to have their health viewed as something more than a commodity. In my opinion of course.

[whitey]

IF YOU LIKE YUR PLAN-YOU CAN KEEP YOUR PLAN-PERIOD!!!!!

Barack Hussein Obama (aka Barry Soetero)

[muppet]

IF YOU LIKE YUR PLAN-YOU CAN KEEP YOUR PLAN-PERIOD!!!!!

Barack Hussein Obama (aka Barry Soetero)

This is pretty typical of the US style debate.

Pick a line and 'torture' it out of context. I could argue that people are keeping their current coverage and simply getting extra cover, but what would be the point? This is FOX News thinking. Just keep shouting. For example, imagine Obama, in the context of fears of pay reductions, pledged the same public sector pay next year. If pay subsequently increased, Republicans would go ballistic rose and accuse him of 'lying'.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/wp/2013/10/30/obamas-pledge-that-no-one-will-take-away-your-health-plan

Moreover, it's certainly incorrect to claim, as some Republicans have, that people are losing insurance coverage. Instead, in virtually all cases, it's being replaced with probably better (and possibly more expensive) insurance.

[heganboy]

Read my lips: no new taxes

In shocking news politicians say anything to get your vote

[whitey]

I hear theres powerful stuff altogether on the new videos

I think i will sit back, pop some popcorn and enjoy the entertainment-"this beatdown is going to be epic"

[seafoid]

Beyond the Medicaid expansion, how is Obamacare comparable to the Irish system. It's a set of rules about private health insurance.

I wish we had Obamacare in Ireland. As muppet noted earlier, the healthy subsidise the sick. As things stand here, we have a lot of healthy people who are assuming they will always be healthy and avoiding paying for insurance. Sure, lots of them don't get sick, but for those who do the pot of money to pay for their care is correspondingly smaller because so few people are paying into it.

Obama's legacy depends on making his health care reforms stick. It's still up in the air.

Health care costs in the US are off the scale .

[J70]

Beyond the Medicaid expansion, how is Obamacare comparable to the Irish system. It's a set of rules about private health insurance.

I wish we had Obamacare in Ireland. As muppet noted earlier, the healthy subsidise the sick. As things stand here, we have a lot of healthy people who are assuming they will always be healthy and avoiding paying for insurance. Sure, lots of them don't get sick, but for those who do the pot of money to pay for their care is correspondingly smaller because so few people are paying into it.

Obama's legacy depends on making his health care reforms stick. It's still up in the air.

Health care costs in the US are off the scale .

No health insurance and you are going to lose your house if anything remotely serious happens.

It's a joke.

But apparently healthcare is a privelege, not a right, according to conservatives. It's something where money can be made. And to some extent that works, in that there is a lot of innovation. But there is also an alarming lack of preventative care and a dismissal of concerns about lack of insurance/access with " well they can just go to the ER".

[johnneycool]

To even compare and protray the US healthcare system as better than the Irish or for that matter any other universal healthcare system is laughable.
The US healthcare system is about making profit and so the decisions you are relying on from the system are based on that. Its true that you can get great treatment in America - if you have the money, but half the time its the wrong treatment, just the most expensive one often requested by the patient as they think its the best but what do they actually really know. Also hospitals are built like hotels in America to try and attract customers, important for making a profit but irrelevant to actual healthcare. I could go on but I would be here all day, but my point is for profit healthcare does not do a good job.

BTW Obamacare is a farce also, how can healthcare possibility be the responsibility of an employer? Nuts!

The solution is easy, Nationalisation. It is a proven system when it comes to healthcare. America's refusal to accept this fact is an indication of preference of philosophy (Capitalism) over facts. Very dangerous territory

I think its a cultural thing where in the US the healthcare policy would be part of your remuneration package, certainly anyone I know who works in the states would be reliant on it as part of their employment and coverage would vary from employer to employer.
We're to an extent used to having a free NHS (although we're heavier taxed at source) and any private health insurance offered by an employer is deemed to be a bonus although a taxable benefit in kind.

[J70]

To even compare and protray the US healthcare system as better than the Irish or for that matter any other universal healthcare system is laughable.
The US healthcare system is about making profit and so the decisions you are relying on from the system are based on that. Its true that you can get great treatment in America - if you have the money, but half the time its the wrong treatment, just the most expensive one often requested by the patient as they think its the best but what do they actually really know. Also hospitals are built like hotels in America to try and attract customers, important for making a profit but irrelevant to actual healthcare. I could go on but I would be here all day, but my point is for profit healthcare does not do a good job.

BTW Obamacare is a farce also, how can healthcare possibility be the responsibility of an employer? Nuts!

The solution is easy, Nationalisation. It is a proven system when it comes to healthcare. America's refusal to accept this fact is an indication of preference of philosophy (Capitalism) over facts. Very dangerous territory

Employer-provided health insurance has been around for more than 60 years. Started as an employment incentive. It is simply the way most Americans get it. Nothing to do with Obama.