Israel. Ha ha ha. Happy night in Tel Aviv
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Show posts MenuQuote from: imtommygunn on May 11, 2018, 05:51:39 PMThe main problem with allocation of social housing that it is being given to some useless dirtbird on benefits instead of a decent family that are doing their best on minimum wage
There are still problems with equality in social housing. If nelson mccausland has any sort of responsibility for anything you can be sure there will be inequalitie
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Quote from: trailer on May 08, 2018, 04:30:36 PMAnd that's why it isn't only Sinn Fein needs to welcome unionists. All pro unity parties should be making the caseQuote from: haranguerer on May 08, 2018, 03:28:26 PM
And that will probably be the most common position. I didn't mean to be disparaging by referring to 'short-term grumblers' - people have to look after themselves and ensure they have the best future they can - but I believe those grumbles will be well alleviated by the time a vote comes round, i.e. there will be money available so as to give immediate, rather than merely aspirational economic benefits
You've made some very good points haranguerer.
There are issues in the South that many Northerners would want to see tackled. Housing and homelessness being a major one. The South needs to tackle these effectively. Reunification will throw up lots of hurdles expected and unexpected. Being able to demonstrate an ability to tackle them would be key.
Quote from: haranguerer on May 08, 2018, 03:02:13 PM
'How much it will cost' is a popular refrain, but its short-sighted and misses the point. Over the longer term, a single entity Ireland will be a greater economic unit than that of the current two parts, and everyone will reap the benefits of that. It seems particularly strange that those in the North, currently an economic basket case (and path to which can be directly apportioned to partition), would query whether it will be economically worth it - it would appear to be caution of a dangerous level to settle for what you have when the evidence points clearly to how much better you and your descendants could be doing.
Of course most people will just worry about the short term, and if they're told they'll be £100 worse off next year they won't go for it, but even that won't be the case. The economic benefits will become clearer as the situation develops; it will be in the interests of pretty much all those involved for it to happen, so the UK, Ireland, EU, US, will all pump money in to ensure there is the right vote - in other words a unification dividend will sort out the short term grumblers, and the greater economic power of a single Irish unit will deliver in the longer term
Quote from: Applesisapples on May 08, 2018, 10:49:07 AMQuote from: haranguerer on May 08, 2018, 10:17:54 AMBut it is not only unionists you have to convince.
50+1 would be very much sustainable. As you point out yourself, a small winning majority doesn't mean a significant minority vehemently opposed. There aren't many referenda, no matter how populist the issue, which go to 70 or 80% support.
Obviously its a necessary principle that a vision be created which unionists as well as nationalists can buy into, but its very dangerous to go along with this talk that there should be a different criteria for re-unification than that already agreed. In fact, the only thing that is likely to get unionists to engage with creating such a vision is the reality of the situation; giving them a get-out clause to focus on instead isn't helpful for anyone.
Quote from: seafoid on May 07, 2018, 08:04:14 PMThat's what they have in common with S.F.
Arlene is insane. She wants to leave the customs union and she won't talk to Corbyn. Don't unionists need things like money?
Quote from: Therealdonald on May 07, 2018, 05:38:57 PMQuote from: michaelg on May 07, 2018, 05:28:35 PMQuote from: WT4E on May 07, 2018, 02:46:58 PMIs she allowed to mention how the IRA tried to blow up her school bus? I am no fan of big Robbie myself, but not always easy to "move on" as you put it.Quote"We do think Jeremy Corbyn is beyond the pale due to his support for the IRA in the past, and as someone who's suffered as a result of IRA terrorism it is a very personal issue for me," Mrs Foster said.
There's your problem right there - If I hear this gremlin say the IRA tried to shoot my daddy one more time i'll cry! When the so call leader of the wee six can't move on what chance does anyone have!!!!
They didn't try to blow up her bus. They tried to blow up the driver who in all accounts was only getting what was coming to him. To say they were going to blow up her bus means that 25 schoolchildren were the target when that is wrong.
Quote from: Therealdonald on May 07, 2018, 04:48:33 PMCorrect. But then they went about making sure they wouldnt have to worry about democracy after that. The D.U.P. and the Tories will stand down if they dont have a majority the next time
Were the Nazi's not democratically elected in Germany???
Quote from: BennyCake on May 07, 2018, 10:40:00 AMQuote from: Avondhu star on May 06, 2018, 10:24:33 PMQuote from: BennyCake on May 06, 2018, 09:47:58 PMQuote from: Avondhu star on May 06, 2018, 09:40:07 PMQuote from: BennyCake on May 06, 2018, 09:03:23 PMQuote from: Rossfan on May 06, 2018, 07:35:26 PM
The Irish people?
Nope, the British people.
They don't give a shite about Ireland so don't be waiting for them to. act
Exactly.
It's up to the Irish nationalist sector to make the economic political cultural case for unity.
Human nature being what it is economics will be the deciding factor ( just think of the Scottish result)
Matt Carty of S.F. is one of the few that has been making some sounds on unification. There is no doubt but that Brexit could have a big part to play yet.
However there is no sign that the extremes on each side are prepared to compromise on flags, parades. Irish language etc
Did you expect them to compromise?!
The British people couldn't give a flying fcuk about the North. That was more evident with the DUP deal with the Nazi party. A push in britain for a referendum on the North would do more for a UI than anything. A border poll here would mean very little compared to a border poll in Britain. Unionists here need to hear that this union they hang onto with every ounce of strength doesn't want them, couldn't give a shite about theym, and doesn't consider them british. That's the first step towards any sort of a UI.
Quote from: BennyCake on May 06, 2018, 09:47:58 PMQuote from: Avondhu star on May 06, 2018, 09:40:07 PMQuote from: BennyCake on May 06, 2018, 09:03:23 PMQuote from: Rossfan on May 06, 2018, 07:35:26 PM
The Irish people?
Nope, the British people.
They don't give a shite about Ireland so don't be waiting for them to. act
Exactly.
Quote from: BennyCake on May 06, 2018, 09:03:23 PMQuote from: Rossfan on May 06, 2018, 07:35:26 PM
The Irish people?
Nope, the British people.
Quote from: Orior on May 06, 2018, 07:31:24 PMUnify the people first
Avondhu star, who is best to bring me unification of our island?
Quote from: 6th sam on May 04, 2018, 03:33:24 PMQuote from: Snapchap on May 04, 2018, 06:40:22 AMQuote from: 6th sam on May 03, 2018, 11:20:10 AM
The 26 counties, though not perfect , is an example to northern nationalism in dealing with the past.
I'd like to come back with a more detailed analysis of your post later if I get the time, but for now, the line above really does need to be called out as sheer and utter BS.
Consider the treatment of Martin McGuinness in his presidential election run, and then try to tell me that the 26 counties is an example in dealing with the past. There is a substantial population south of the border with minimal understanding of the conflict (having learned about it via the medium of a Section 31 state censored media) who are as vindictive and bitter opponents of Irish Republicanism as any north Antrim TUV voter. The DUP agreed to enter powersharing with SF almost 2 decades ago. To this day, FF and FG still for the most part publically maintain that "SFs past" makes them "unsuitable" to enter government with. Of course, they will insist on unionists sharing power with them in the north. Utter hypocrites.
You're emphasising the point I'm trying to make. The attitude from the southern establishment (Ff/Fg) and media towards SF is hypocritical. Especially since their attitude to each other since the foundation of the state has been as political rivals, and despite their origins from the civil war, they proved they could put those differences behind them . In the more recent conflict , SDLP and more so the southern establishment and media , continue to treat SF as pariahs , presumably because they feel it is party politically advantageous for them to denigrate SF.
As a result of this pArty political approach , they dilute the equality agenda which 85% of this Island would buy in to , and let the DUP dinosaurs off the hook time and again, they should hang their heads in shame!