NFL Division 1 2024

[tyrone08]

Its a pretty specific stat regarding beating the top 3 teams in Croke Park in a set time period. How many games does that actually involve?  I'd say Donegal beat Tyrone more times over that time frame that any of Kerry, Dublin, Mayo.

Tyrone beaten by as follows

2009 cork
2010 dub
2011 dub
2012 kerry
2013 mayo
2014 armagh I think
2015 kerry
2016 mayo
2017 dub
2018 dub
2019 kerry
2020 donegal

Its a very poor record for mickey not to have beaten one of those teams in championship football.

they got to the final in 2018. Who did they beat along the way

In the super 8 they beat Roscommon and donegal. Dublin beat Tyrone again. Tyrone played monaghan in the semi and beat them.

Dublin actually beat them twice in that all ireland

[JoG2]

Its a pretty specific stat regarding beating the top 3 teams in Croke Park in a set time period. How many games does that actually involve?  I'd say Donegal beat Tyrone more times over that time frame that any of Kerry, Dublin, Mayo.

Tyrone beaten by as follows

2009 cork
2010 dub
2011 dub
2012 kerry
2013 mayo
2014 armagh I think
2015 kerry
2016 mayo
2017 dub
2018 dub
2019 kerry
2020 donegal

Its a very poor record for mickey not to have beaten one of those teams in championship football.

they got to the final in 2018. Who did they beat along the way

In the super 8 they beat Roscommon and donegal. Dublin beat Tyrone again. Tyrone played monaghan in the semi and beat them.

Dublin actually beat them twice in that all ireland

You're alot more nervous about Derry's year ahead than Derry fans! 

[seanyb]

My god this is actually laughable lol derry abu!

[tyrone08]

Its a pretty specific stat regarding beating the top 3 teams in Croke Park in a set time period. How many games does that actually involve?  I'd say Donegal beat Tyrone more times over that time frame that any of Kerry, Dublin, Mayo.

Tyrone beaten by as follows

2009 cork
2010 dub
2011 dub
2012 kerry
2013 mayo
2014 armagh I think
2015 kerry
2016 mayo
2017 dub
2018 dub
2019 kerry
2020 donegal

Its a very poor record for mickey not to have beaten one of those teams in championship football.

they got to the final in 2018. Who did they beat along the way

In the super 8 they beat Roscommon and donegal. Dublin beat Tyrone again. Tyrone played monaghan in the semi and beat them.

Dublin actually beat them twice in that all ireland

You're alot more nervous about Derry's year ahead than Derry fans! 

Not really. Trying to work out why use think mickey is the man to take you to the promise land when there is 15 years of evidence to show the opposite lol but time will tell.

[imtommygunn]

There were quite a few of those years you were far from being good enough though. There's maybe 3 games you could / should have won in those years that you lost. No shame in not beating that dublin team too. If you'd beat Mayo or Kerry still no AI as Dublin would have beat you. Cork in 2009 the only year you could have maybe won AI but it was a good cork team too.

[seanyb]

Its a pretty specific stat regarding beating the top 3 teams in Croke Park in a set time period. How many games does that actually involve?  I'd say Donegal beat Tyrone more times over that time frame that any of Kerry, Dublin, Mayo.

Tyrone beaten by as follows

2009 cork
2010 dub
2011 dub
2012 kerry
2013 mayo
2014 armagh I think
2015 kerry
2016 mayo
2017 dub
2018 dub
2019 kerry
2020 donegal

Its a very poor record for mickey not to have beaten one of those teams in championship football.

they got to the final in 2018. Who did they beat along the way

In the super 8 they beat Roscommon and donegal. Dublin beat Tyrone again. Tyrone played monaghan in the semi and beat them.

Dublin actually beat them twice in that all ireland

You're alot more nervous about Derry's year ahead than Derry fans! 

Not really. Trying to work out why use think mickey is the man to take you to the promise land when there is 15 years of evidence to show the opposite lol but time will tell.

you ok mate?

[tyrone08]

Its a pretty specific stat regarding beating the top 3 teams in Croke Park in a set time period. How many games does that actually involve?  I'd say Donegal beat Tyrone more times over that time frame that any of Kerry, Dublin, Mayo.

Tyrone beaten by as follows

2009 cork
2010 dub
2011 dub
2012 kerry
2013 mayo
2014 armagh I think
2015 kerry
2016 mayo
2017 dub
2018 dub
2019 kerry
2020 donegal

Its a very poor record for mickey not to have beaten one of those teams in championship football.

they got to the final in 2018. Who did they beat along the way

In the super 8 they beat Roscommon and donegal. Dublin beat Tyrone again. Tyrone played monaghan in the semi and beat them.

Dublin actually beat them twice in that all ireland

You're alot more nervous about Derry's year ahead than Derry fans! 

Not really. Trying to work out why use think mickey is the man to take you to the promise land when there is 15 years of evidence to show the opposite lol but time will tell.

you ok mate?

I am 100%. Heaven forbid you chat about football managers and teams on a football thread lol

[Derryman forever]

Its a pretty specific stat regarding beating the top 3 teams in Croke Park in a set time period. How many games does that actually involve?  I'd say Donegal beat Tyrone more times over that time frame that any of Kerry, Dublin, Mayo.

Tyrone beaten by as follows

2009 cork
2010 dub
2011 dub
2012 kerry
2013 mayo
2014 armagh I think
2015 kerry
2016 mayo
2017 dub
2018 dub
2019 kerry
2020 donegal

Its a very poor record for mickey not to have beaten one of those teams in championship football.

What was Mickey's scoring average in those games?

[Lamh Dhearg Alba]

I don't want to win the NFL or Ulster this year.

Tailor training after the NFL to peak for the All Ireland QFs. A loss to Donegal will get the knives out for everyone about "Glen lads back too early" "no depth" "no forwards" "Mickey Harte shouldn't have taken the Derry job" etc.

Nobody better at a siege mentality than Mickey Harte.

The one problem with that is Mickey never likes to lose games ever so I imagine we'll just be flat to the mat from now until we get beat!

The other problem is mickey hasnt beaten Kerry, Dublin or Mayo in 10 years in a championship match.

Would the last time this happened not be 2008 AI final? I could be missing a game, but the big gripe towards the end in Tyrone was how long we had went without cracking these 3 in championship. I can't remember a more recent one, possibly a Mayo game I'm forgetting?

You're right, 2008 was his last Championship win in Croke Park against a genuine contender. He also struggled after going more defensive (post Donegal defeats) to find the right balance between defence and attack. Both of which made him an interesting choice for a Derry side trying to kick on by winning big games against the top teams and trying to find the right balance between defence and attack.

Is there a case to be made that Tyrone were a little off the top teams in the country at that time?Tyrone fans were spoilt from 2003 to 2008 going from never winning an all Ireland to 3 in 6 years and with that comes a demand for more success.Canavan their greatest ever player was coming to end and mulligan,mcguigan and o Neill were top class at their peak in those years.they didn't have anywhere near close to as good a forward line in the years that followed.

Yeah there is a case to be made and it's the standard response but I don't think it stands up to serious scrutiny. I'd say 2008 was Mickey's finest hour (so far 😁) in terms of management as he won an AI with McGuigan with reduced vision, fitness and mobility, Mugsy out of sorts and on the bench, SON not there but for a very late cameo and Canavan long gone. It was a real team achievement and the next couple of years looked rosy with that team still growing, SON back and Mugsy re-focused, and AI winning minor teams from 2004 and 2008. Instead he tried to go back to the pre 2008 model and failed badly in very winnable big games in 2009 and 2010.

The team was getting old in 2011 and 2012 (although he hadn't refreshed it properly if I'm being harsh) so I'd write those off. There were then a few seasons when he did well to stay pretty competitive with a less talented panel and I wouldn't question those defeats at all.

The new team 2016 onwards he made a mess of with an overly defensive model. Humiliating defeat against the Dubs in 2017 when the game was over after 5 minutes due to there being no plan other than ultra defence. Nothing wrong with losing to that team but the manner of it was terrible. Following year he threw 3 years of work out the window on AI final day by trying to go out all out attack with a team who had been drilled on mass defence. Over by half time. You wondered the following year when wr led Kerry were things coming together. Came apart second half trying to defend a lead.

Was no coincidence in 2021 players saying they loved Mickey etc but now felt free to express themselves on the big day and take on scores.

Now Derry folk can say bitter Tyrone people etc but there's nothing there I wasn't saying on  Tyrone threads for a few years before Mickey moved on. I've a massive respect for the man in so many ways, but he made a lot of mistakes from 2008 onwards. Perhaps he has learned from those, perhaps the hunger from the Derry players will make a difference and coupled with Mickey's experience will drive them on. But the questions are valid.

[tbrick18]

I dont believe Derry fans are sitting thinking that now we have Harte we're going to win.
There's a realism to Derry fans. We believe we have a chance, before we had Harte.
There are as many people concerned about what Harte might do as there are those who think he'll take us over the line.

But stepping back, if you are recruiting a manager and one of the applicants has won 3 AI's he's arguably going to be the top choice for the job based on experience. There are a lot of things I don't like about the appointment, but I do like that he has the experience of getting over the line.

Do I think he's better than what Gallagher/Meenagh brought to the table, not sure I do. But he's what we've got, we've definately got the players, but we all know a lot has to click to win an AI.
There's a lot of hopeful Derry people rather than a lot of expectant Derry people.

[trailer]

Mickey ruined an entire generation of Tyrone footballers from 2008 on. Restricted them in every way. They were playing in a straight jacket. Completely devoid of ambition.

Harte "won" 3 All Irelands but the reality was that that team was a once in a generation team and they were destined to win All Irelands. The question was how many? If Harte hadn't have been there they probably would have won many many more. He refused time and again to pick the best players (Mark Harte has an All Ireland medal) and relied on moments of sheer genius from individuals to get them over the line. As that talent aged he couldn't reinvent or reenergise the team. He had Iron grab on the County and it took some bravery to finally oust him. With the those players freed them went on to secure another All Ireland. An average enough team by all accounts. Imagine what we could've done with in 2010s had players been released from his footballing prison. Without Harte we'd be chasing down double figures in All Irelands. 

Good luck to Derry but if the answer is Harte I fear you're asking the wrong questions.

[Armagh18]

Derry men- if yous were to beat Kerry in a semi then lose to Dublin in a close final or vice versa how would you view the season?

Surely that's progress and be no shame in losing to one of them

[tbrick18]

Derry men- if yous were to beat Kerry in a semi then lose to Dublin in a close final or vice versa how would you view the season?

Surely that's progress and be no shame in losing to one of them

Yeah that would be progress along with retaining Div 1.
We'd still be disappointed.

[JoG2]

Mickey ruined an entire generation of Tyrone footballers from 2008 on. Restricted them in every way. They were playing in a straight jacket. Completely devoid of ambition.

Harte "won" 3 All Irelands but the reality was that that team was a once in a generation team and they were destined to win All Irelands. The question was how many? If Harte hadn't have been there they probably would have won many many more. He refused time and again to pick the best players (Mark Harte has an All Ireland medal) and relied on moments of sheer genius from individuals to get them over the line. As that talent aged he couldn't reinvent or reenergise the team. He had Iron grab on the County and it took some bravery to finally oust him. With the those players freed them went on to secure another All Ireland. An average enough team by all accounts. Imagine what we could've done with in 2010s had players been released from his footballing prison. Without Harte we'd be chasing down double figures in All Irelands. 

Good luck to Derry but if the answer is Harte I fear you're asking the wrong questions.

The old tired players win games, managers lose them. Harte had youse basking at the top table pretty much his entire stint. Minor and u21 before. The entitlement dripping off you is incredible. Current management team has delivered an All Ireland and there not getting the backing now too. How many at the Roscommon game, and a smattering at CP on Sunday?

Derry men- if yous were to beat Kerry in a semi then lose to Dublin in a close final or vice versa how would you view the season?

Surely that's progress and be no shame in losing to one of them

Absolutely. Would love another Anglo Celt and retaining Div 1. Derry people still enjoying being in the mix.
No shame in losing to any top team, unless you're from the county that thinks football started in 2003

[Tyrone Dreamer]

Mickey ruined an entire generation of Tyrone footballers from 2008 on. Restricted them in every way. They were playing in a straight jacket. Completely devoid of ambition.

Harte "won" 3 All Irelands but the reality was that that team was a once in a generation team and they were destined to win All Irelands. The question was how many? If Harte hadn't have been there they probably would have won many many more. He refused time and again to pick the best players (Mark Harte has an All Ireland medal) and relied on moments of sheer genius from individuals to get them over the line. As that talent aged he couldn't reinvent or reenergise the team. He had Iron grab on the County and it took some bravery to finally oust him. With the those players freed them went on to secure another All Ireland. An average enough team by all accounts. Imagine what we could've done with in 2010s had players been released from his footballing prison. Without Harte we'd be chasing down double figures in All Irelands. 

Good luck to Derry but if the answer is Harte I fear you're asking the wrong questions.

Some nonsense this. If Tyrone had all these players to be winning All Ireland's how come did they didn't win an U21 ulster championship from 2007 to 20214? They struggled badly at that level which is a much better gauge of players coming through than minor. They had a good team in 2015 and won an all ireland u21 and within 3 years Tyrone were in a senior final with many of that crop involved.

Tyrone got to at least the semi final stage on 4 occasions from 2013 to 2019. The last few years have shown how well Harte did at consistently keeping Tyrone at the top end.