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Messages - tbrick18

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1
GAA Discussion / Re: Should An Glenn object?
« on: January 26, 2023, 04:18:45 PM »
Neither club should deny a reply. Itís a fair opportunity for both clubs. No one can turn back time and undo what happened so an opportunity to go for it again is the fair option.
If either club declined it, they are doing the other club out of the opportunity to win the game fairly. This may be tougher on KC as they were in a winning position, but at the end of they day, they were partly to blame, whereas Glen had no blame so it balances out.

Reply the f**king game and get on with it.

I'd agree with that.

2
GAA Discussion / Re: Should An Glenn object?
« on: January 26, 2023, 11:05:14 AM »
What is the contingency if the GAA order a replay and KC tell them to go f**k themselves? (Which I think they will)

I would imagine, that would be the same as not fulfilling a fixture and the the opposing team would automatically be granted the win.
Glen wouldn't want that either I'd imagine.
There's also no guarantee that Glen would accept a replay either.

3
GAA Discussion / Re: Should An Glenn object?
« on: January 26, 2023, 11:03:00 AM »
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/2023/01/26/ciaran-murphy-the-unsettling-gap-between-the-gaa-rulebook-and-the-gaa-way/

At various stages over the last three days, both teams have been asked to judge the merits of this case not from a regulatory standpoint, but from a moral or ethical standpoint. They have had to navigate their path along the GAA Way, not the GAA Rulebook.
That was allowed to happen by extraordinarily weak GAA leadership. Yes, we have been stung multiple times in this country by the scourge of the celebrity sports administrator. And generally speaking, Iím in favour of administrators taking a back seat.
But sometimes you need a GAA President or a GAA Director-General to take the lead in a situation like this. Itís not a crime to say the end of this game was mishandled Ė everyone can see that. Thereís a difference between refs being scapegoated and being held accountable.
The second the officiating team realised their mistake, the fateful 45 should have been re-taken. They were central GAAís representatives on the field. From that moment on, it was the GAAís mess to clear up. And whatever about the residual power of the GAA Way, the GAA Rulebook will now have the final say.

Spot on.
If the 45 had been re-taken, it is likely KC would still have won and there'd be not a word about it.
As it stands, failure of officials to take action at the time have resulted in this mess.
All that can be done, is to follow the rule book. Let the process run, Glen have raised their objection and KC have time to respond. My understanding is if they don't respond or refute the Objection, then CCCC start an inquiry into Glen's objection. KC could also admit that they had 16 players on the pitch, and in this case an inquiry is not required (I think).

If an inquiry is held and it finds in favour of Glen's objection OR KC admit the fact there were 16 players, then the CCCC have to decide on a punishment, if any. Then both teams have 3 days to appeal that decision.

If KC admit that the grounds of Glen's objection are valid and no inquiry is needed, then the CCCC decide on punishment, if any. And once again, both teams have 3 days to appeal that decision.

It's all a mess but those are the procedures so it's likely to be the middle of next week before we get to any final outcome.

The issue of fault only comes into it when the CCCC are deciding on a potential punishment and those failings of officials, players, team management etc will all be mitigating factors in that decision making process. I'm not sure factors like the score or how much time is left can be considered as a mitigating factor as they don't contribute to the rule breaking.

It's well documented now what the options are if the objection is upheld, which I think it has to be given the video evidence and general acceptance of the extra players being on the pitch for the final play. Both teams are entitled to have the rules applied fairly.
In my opinion, this was probably accidental on KC's part. But that doesn't matter.
Officials could have managed it at the time and made it a non issue, but didn't, and so have let down both teams.
It would be unfair to fine KC for an error from officials, though I'd guess they'd happily take a fine over a replay - but that's a dangerous precedent to set for this type of problem.
It would be unfair on KC to reverse the result and I dont think Glen would want it reversed that way either, but I'm not sure what the circumstances are that require a reversal of the result.
I think a replay is the least worst option, it gives both teams another bite at it and preserves the integrity of the rules going forward.

There was no deliberate rule break, therefore there is no need for any sanction. We should all just accept that it was an error by the officials. Many games are won and lost by officials errors. We are opening a complete can of worms if we start allowing replays for errors by officials.

Deliberate or not doesn't matter as for this particular rule, the word deliberate isn't included.
Black card rule stipulates "deliberate". The number of players on a pitch doesn't have any such stipulation.
The rule, as it is written, has been broken and that isn't open to interpretation.
We open a complete of worms, if the rule is not enforced.

4
GAA Discussion / Re: Should An Glenn object?
« on: January 26, 2023, 10:38:42 AM »
Unlikely but i would say if replayed KC will be travelling out to the sticks imo.

Why not have it at Croke? it's still, at this time of the year, regardless of how the pitch is at the minute, in a better state than most other county grounds.. Better facilities..

I've not got a message from Croke yet on officiating  ;D

Armagh is in good nick, could facilitate a weeknight game, and would be mid-way between both teams (ish).

5
GAA Discussion / Re: Should An Glenn object?
« on: January 26, 2023, 10:16:20 AM »
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/gaelic-games/2023/01/26/ciaran-murphy-the-unsettling-gap-between-the-gaa-rulebook-and-the-gaa-way/

At various stages over the last three days, both teams have been asked to judge the merits of this case not from a regulatory standpoint, but from a moral or ethical standpoint. They have had to navigate their path along the GAA Way, not the GAA Rulebook.
That was allowed to happen by extraordinarily weak GAA leadership. Yes, we have been stung multiple times in this country by the scourge of the celebrity sports administrator. And generally speaking, Iím in favour of administrators taking a back seat.
But sometimes you need a GAA President or a GAA Director-General to take the lead in a situation like this. Itís not a crime to say the end of this game was mishandled Ė everyone can see that. Thereís a difference between refs being scapegoated and being held accountable.
The second the officiating team realised their mistake, the fateful 45 should have been re-taken. They were central GAAís representatives on the field. From that moment on, it was the GAAís mess to clear up. And whatever about the residual power of the GAA Way, the GAA Rulebook will now have the final say.

Spot on.
If the 45 had been re-taken, it is likely KC would still have won and there'd be not a word about it.
As it stands, failure of officials to take action at the time have resulted in this mess.
All that can be done, is to follow the rule book. Let the process run, Glen have raised their objection and KC have time to respond. My understanding is if they don't respond or refute the Objection, then CCCC start an inquiry into Glen's objection. KC could also admit that they had 16 players on the pitch, and in this case an inquiry is not required (I think).

If an inquiry is held and it finds in favour of Glen's objection OR KC admit the fact there were 16 players, then the CCCC have to decide on a punishment, if any. Then both teams have 3 days to appeal that decision.

If KC admit that the grounds of Glen's objection are valid and no inquiry is needed, then the CCCC decide on punishment, if any. And once again, both teams have 3 days to appeal that decision.

It's all a mess but those are the procedures so it's likely to be the middle of next week before we get to any final outcome.

The issue of fault only comes into it when the CCCC are deciding on a potential punishment and those failings of officials, players, team management etc will all be mitigating factors in that decision making process. I'm not sure factors like the score or how much time is left can be considered as a mitigating factor as they don't contribute to the rule breaking.

It's well documented now what the options are if the objection is upheld, which I think it has to be given the video evidence and general acceptance of the extra players being on the pitch for the final play. Both teams are entitled to have the rules applied fairly.
In my opinion, this was probably accidental on KC's part. But that doesn't matter.
Officials could have managed it at the time and made it a non issue, but didn't, and so have let down both teams.
It would be unfair to fine KC for an error from officials, though I'd guess they'd happily take a fine over a replay - but that's a dangerous precedent to set for this type of problem.
It would be unfair on KC to reverse the result and I dont think Glen would want it reversed that way either, but I'm not sure what the circumstances are that require a reversal of the result.
I think a replay is the least worst option, it gives both teams another bite at it and preserves the integrity of the rules going forward.

6
GAA Discussion / Re: Should An Glenn object?
« on: January 24, 2023, 01:14:03 PM »
A player would always have been in that position had no.14 not been, itís the basics of managing your line.

Of course that means one less person of the 15 not on the 14 yard line not a clear route on goal, thatís clutching especially considering the actual clear routes they had to goal but missed, but had he got a shot off on target then yes there is proper interference.

My view is Glen should put the ball back into Croke Parks court and see what happens

It's not clutching. The fact is you can't know, and one less player out the field would have made some difference. How much? Who knows. But that's the point. It absolutely had some effect on the field, and that's why a replay is needed.

It doesn't actually matter.
Rule was broken which is the only fact that matters.
The should have would have commentary is impossible to prove or disprove.
The rule was broke, for what ever reason, apply the sanction as dictated by the rule book.

7
GAA Discussion / Re: Should An Glenn object?
« on: January 24, 2023, 01:11:31 PM »
In the immediate aftermath of the game I'd have said no.
Listening to commentary since and having seen what the actual rules state, then absolutely yes.

Rules are rules.
There shouldn't even be a scenario where the rules only apply in certain subjective circumstances.

Follow the rules to the letter, I'd apply the same logic to disciplinary matters.

The main issue here, as I see it, is that the Gaa have been made aware of a breach of their own rules and are deciding not to bother unless the aggrieved party decide to ask them to.
That's ridiculous.

Replay should be offered.
Glen to win it.


8
GAA Discussion / Re: All Ireland club football championships 2022/23
« on: January 23, 2023, 02:02:18 PM »
Yeah has to be a replay. If slowly strolling off like the 17th man, Mannion, then that's fine, not interfering with play. But the 16th man was in there defending the goal. HQ has to make a firm decision here.

Yep.
But when have they ever done that.

9
GAA Discussion / Re: Division 2 2023
« on: January 23, 2023, 02:01:26 PM »
Div 2 kicking off this weekend:

Sat:
Derry v Limerick
Dublin v Kildare (TG4)

Sun:
Cork v Meath (TG4)
Clare v Louth

Any predictions?

The Sunday games are a toss up, slight preference to Cork and Clare given home advantage and Clare are hard enough to beat. Cork v Meath could be a draw.
I'd like to think Derry will win as given the drive for promotion this year it's essential to win the early games, but I don't know much about Limerick to be honest.
Dublin will likely beat Kildare, but that's based on them having a strong side out.

10
GAA Discussion / Re: All Ireland club football championships 2022/23
« on: January 23, 2023, 12:17:27 PM »
On the game itself, with a bit more composure Glen could/should have had the game won.
Kilmacud had that little bit more calmness about them.

Glen didnt get enough out of Glass and even though Ethan Doherty was excellent, he made a few uncharacteristic mistakes too.
Ryan was excellent for Kilmacud.

As for the extra player on the pitch, to the letter of the law it looks like the fair thing to do would be to offer a replay.
I'd say the chances of the GAA doing that are none.
They'll look at it and say it will be forgot about in a few weeks, whereas if they force a replay then the fixture list will make it near impossible to schedule, it will go down in history as a mess on their part and a headache to boot.

Unfortunately for Glen, I'd imagine the journey is over this year.
However, the main positive would be that they are more than capable of winning an AI and they are a young side. So next year maybe.


11
GAA Discussion / Re: McKenna Cup 2023
« on: January 22, 2023, 11:49:19 AM »
I don't think we'll be thinking as far ahead as croke Park.
We'll be aiming for promotion to div 1 and first round of the championship.

12
GAA Discussion / Re: McKenna Cup 2023
« on: January 22, 2023, 08:34:25 AM »
To those basing their assessment of the season to come on the McKenna cup, last year's winners were Monaghan who just about stayed in Div1 afterwards, won one game in ulster and we're knocked our in the 1st round of the qualifiers.

I don't think anyone is getting carried away with winning the mckenna cup as such.
For me the exciting thing was how the young players were integrated and the fact they they were to fore in most games. We also have tried changing our shape and are kicking the ball more. All of this should mean we are not as reliant on small core of players and also that we can adjust to account for injuries or opponent.
That's all positive.

Of course none of that guarantees promotion or an extended championship, but it looks like we are well prepared for the challenge. We still need to work on how we cope with that press on our kickout and on how to win high ball in the middle third but I don't think we're the only team in that position.

One final note on Tyrone, they played an ultra defensive style too with 14 men behind the ball a lot of the time. Their keeper playing out the field a fair bit too, but they still struggled when derry attacked at pace. That could still be a fitness issue at this time of year or it could be that the defensive strategy doesn't suit those players. Maybe they need to play more on the front foot.

I did laugh at one point though when tyrone supporters behind us were talking about how hard derry were to watch with the defensive style when Tyrone were playing the exact same way. Lol

13
GAA Discussion / Re: McKenna Cup 2023
« on: January 21, 2023, 09:55:59 PM »
Really dominant from Derry tonight apart from 10-15 mins at the start of the 2nd half.
Should have been 12 up at half time but for heroics of the tyrone keeper.
The most impressive thing from a Derry perspective is that we were only at about 75% strength. Missing 3 Glen players and mckaigue. Tyrone had most of their big hitters on in the 2nd half but we stood up to it and took them to the cleaners.

Only the mckenna cup but some very encouraging signs. Casside in my, mcevoy in defence, Murray up front and toner showing very strong. Hopefully we can use this to get promotion and give the championship a real  rattle.

As for tyrone, something not right about them. Can't put my finger on it. Some of the better players from the AI win are not performing. Richie donnelly has gone backwards. Mccurry looks past his best and mcshane inconsistent. Missing leaders maybe?  But again, only the mckenna cup, they've plenty of time to put it right and could still be a force in ulster.

Good mckenna cup this year all round.

14
GAA Discussion / Re: Division 2 2023
« on: January 20, 2023, 11:18:43 AM »
What are the chances McFaul comes back to Derry this year?

Any of the Glen forwards come in and do a job for Derry?

No idea what the chances are for McFaul. It will all depend on the outcome of legal proceedings in the US and it's anyone's guess what will happen there.

Danny Tallon from Glen I think would be a good addition for Derry, but not sure if him and Gallagher see eye-to-eye.
Realistically there's bound to be a couple more players from Glen in mix, at least as panel players. Glass, Doherty and Tallon are probably the stand out options.

15
GAA Discussion / Re: Division 2 2023
« on: January 17, 2023, 05:36:30 PM »
If Derry can get a tune out of Oisin McWilliams and Paudie Tad that will be huge. They weren't fit last year. Murray the best young forward we've produced in a while!

Yep.
And Danny Tallon might be worth a call up after Glen's exploits too.

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