Intercounty apathy a worrying trend

Started by Lar Naparka, January 04, 2017, 03:24:24 PM

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Zulu

Quote from: Lar Naparka on January 10, 2017, 02:22:45 PM
Quote from: Real Talk on January 10, 2017, 10:21:00 AM
Folks currently success at County level is not just about ability its also about  ...... MONEY

Money to pay for a back room staff of in some cases over 40 people getting some form of payment from some source to maintain the Professional Prep required to compete at the 'top table'.  If the Dublin's, Kerry's, Mayo's and Tyrone's of this world are training 4/5 times a week ... can you imagine how much player traveling expenses are involved over a 40 week period/year

Good quality players are aware what's happening in this regard throughout the country.  If they believe that 'their' county can't commit/don't want to commit/don't have the sponsorship to pay for that massive expenditure then it is unlikely that they will give up their time to a lost cause in an less than level playing field (no pun intended) .....

Amateur association ..... ?????????????

That's 100% right!
Apathy has feck all to do with Mickey Mouse competitions. Those who remember the Centenary Cup and more recently, the Tommy Murphy will understand this. It takes money to get anywhere nowadays and counties that can't afford the backup of Dublin and the chasing pack; Mayo, Tyrone, Kerry and maybe one or two others, know damn well that all the gutbusting in the world won't get any of them anywhere.

That's 100% wrong in fact. When was there a time when Waterford, Limerick, Carlow, Leitrim, Wicklow, Fermanagh, Antrim, Louth etc. had a realistic chance of winning something? Yes, some of them have challenged during small windows of power during the GAA's 130+ years of existence but the vast majority of counties have started the vast majority of seasons with no chance of winning anything bar their division. I've said this before but the vast majority of county footballers couldn't care less about Dublin's money as they never had the likes of them in their sights anyway.

A few posters have asked what problem we are trying to solve, I find this an astonishing question. For me, it's really simple. I want to see a logical, workable, competitive games structure for all players at all levels. The basic structure for any competition is that players get regular, structured games that are, in the main, at a level where they can compete. For me, the provincials are the biggest stumbling block to achieving that but if they can be included in a proper format fine.

Colin Ryan, the Clare hurler, made a good point when opting out this year. He is a good soccer player too and in that code he said there are no 3 month build ups to games and 2 week fallouts, there's a new game the following week to get on with. The sooner we get our heads out of our arses and play our competitions largely on a league basis the better.

AZOffaly

Quote from: Zulu on January 10, 2017, 08:45:10 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on January 10, 2017, 02:22:45 PM
Quote from: Real Talk on January 10, 2017, 10:21:00 AM
Folks currently success at County level is not just about ability its also about  ...... MONEY

Money to pay for a back room staff of in some cases over 40 people getting some form of payment from some source to maintain the Professional Prep required to compete at the 'top table'.  If the Dublin's, Kerry's, Mayo's and Tyrone's of this world are training 4/5 times a week ... can you imagine how much player traveling expenses are involved over a 40 week period/year

Good quality players are aware what's happening in this regard throughout the country.  If they believe that 'their' county can't commit/don't want to commit/don't have the sponsorship to pay for that massive expenditure then it is unlikely that they will give up their time to a lost cause in an less than level playing field (no pun intended) .....

Amateur association ..... ?????????????

That's 100% right!
Apathy has feck all to do with Mickey Mouse competitions. Those who remember the Centenary Cup and more recently, the Tommy Murphy will understand this. It takes money to get anywhere nowadays and counties that can't afford the backup of Dublin and the chasing pack; Mayo, Tyrone, Kerry and maybe one or two others, know damn well that all the gutbusting in the world won't get any of them anywhere.

That's 100% wrong in fact. When was there a time when Waterford, Limerick, Carlow, Leitrim, Wicklow, Fermanagh, Antrim, Louth etc. had a realistic chance of winning something? Yes, some of them have challenged during small windows of power during the GAA's 130+ years of existence but the vast majority of counties have started the vast majority of seasons with no chance of winning anything bar their division. I've said this before but the vast majority of county footballers couldn't care less about Dublin's money as they never had the likes of them in their sights anyway.

A few posters have asked what problem we are trying to solve, I find this an astonishing question. For me, it's really simple. I want to see a logical, workable, competitive games structure for all players at all levels. The basic structure for any competition is that players get regular, structured games that are, in the main, at a level where they can compete. For me, the provincials are the biggest stumbling block to achieving that but if they can be included in a proper format fine.

Colin Ryan, the Clare hurler, made a good point when opting out this year. He is a good soccer player too and in that code he said there are no 3 month build ups to games and 2 week fallouts, there's a new game the following week to get on with. The sooner we get our heads out of our arses and play our competitions largely on a league basis the better.

To be fair to you Zulu that's been your mantra for years, and you've stuck to it. However the reason I've asked about what the problem is, is I don't think there is a genuine consensus on that. You mention levels and I think that is certainly something that is far from universally accepted. Therefore any proposals which introduce that concept of tiers, or levels, is immediately controversial.

What you say sounds sensible, but the devil is in the detail and that's why I believe you have to get consensus on that problem, and not in a nebulous idea, but in a clearly stated problem and solution. Problem - Too Many Lopsided games; Solution - Tiered Championship or Preliminary Rounds with seeding based in league position etc etc,

Problem - Uncertain and illogical club calendar; Solution - Shortened inter county season, national club and country integrated calendar, etc etc.

That's what I mean when I ask that at least there is agreement on what the actual problems are before there is any solutions proposed.

Lar Naparka

Quote from: Zulu on January 10, 2017, 08:45:10 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on January 10, 2017, 02:22:45 PM
Quote from: Real Talk on January 10, 2017, 10:21:00 AM
Folks currently success at County level is not just about ability its also about  ...... MONEY

Money to pay for a back room staff of in some cases over 40 people getting some form of payment from some source to maintain the Professional Prep required to compete at the 'top table'.  If the Dublin's, Kerry's, Mayo's and Tyrone's of this world are training 4/5 times a week ... can you imagine how much player traveling expenses are involved over a 40 week period/year

Good quality players are aware what's happening in this regard throughout the country.  If they believe that 'their' county can't commit/don't want to commit/don't have the sponsorship to pay for that massive expenditure then it is unlikely that they will give up their time to a lost cause in an less than level playing field (no pun intended) .....

Amateur association ..... ?????????????

That's 100% right!
Apathy has feck all to do with Mickey Mouse competitions. Those who remember the Centenary Cup and more recently, the Tommy Murphy will understand this. It takes money to get anywhere nowadays and counties that can't afford the backup of Dublin and the chasing pack; Mayo, Tyrone, Kerry and maybe one or two others, know damn well that all the gutbusting in the world won't get any of them anywhere.

That's 100% wrong in fact. When was there a time when Waterford, Limerick, Carlow, Leitrim, Wicklow, Fermanagh, Antrim, Louth etc. had a realistic chance of winning something? Yes, some of them have challenged during small windows of power during the GAA's 130+ years of existence but the vast majority of counties have started the vast majority of seasons with no chance of winning anything bar their division. I've said this before but the vast majority of county footballers couldn't care less about Dublin's money as they never had the likes of them in their sights anyway.

A few posters have asked what problem we are trying to solve, I find this an astonishing question. For me, it's really simple. I want to see a logical, workable, competitive games structure for all players at all levels. The basic structure for any competition is that players get regular, structured games that are, in the main, at a level where they can compete. For me, the provincials are the biggest stumbling block to achieving that but if they can be included in a proper format fine.

Colin Ryan, the Clare hurler, made a good point when opting out this year. He is a good soccer player too and in that code he said there are no 3 month build ups to games and 2 week fallouts, there's a new game the following week to get on with. The sooner we get our heads out of our arses and play our competitions largely on a league basis the better.
Now, now Zulu, I wish things were that simple! ;D ;D
There are lots of things we'd all love to see but we know we never will.
Yup, I agree the provinces are a major stumbling block and also that we'd be better served by a largely league format but so what?
What you and probably I want to see may never come to pass in our lifetimes. We all know there's lots wrong with our present competitive structures but we have to accept the situation as it is.

From what I've seen, read or heard an increasing number of intercounty players are opting out of the rat race that Gaelic football has become. Sure lots of counties have always known they'd never have a hope of winning an All Ireland or might just hit it lucky with a provincial title or two in a generation or two but that was before the twin terrors of Professionalism and Science cast  their shadows across the future of the GAA.
Many players, and all are not in the weaker counties, find when they count the cost and the sacrifices involved in playing intercounty football nowadays, the demands are too much and so they opt out.
It's all right talking about the likes of  Waterford, Limerick, Carlow, Leitrim, Wicklow, Fermanagh, Antrim, Louth etc. not having a chance of winning an AI.
But when did players from those counties, or any others, find they had to train 3 or more times a week or put up with having every aspect of their lives supervised and directed by a horde of nutritionists, analysts, doctors, physios and Uncle Tom Cobbley and all. ( You could throw a few psychos into the mix as well, going by some reports!)
Dublin has a professional setup and every county with any serious hopes of winning are doing their best to keep up with the leaders.
Problem for many is the fact that the element of fun and enjoyment has gone out of the game. It's deadly serious now-and not only in the case of Dublin and the three r four other top teams.
All counties are beefing up on Centres of Excellence and all that goes with this. A case of a rising tide lifting all boats. Players from the counties you classify as no-hopers find they are expected to train the same as everybody else. Throw in the increased demands from colleges, clubs and maybe u21 managers at club and county level, as well and an increasing number are opting out of the rat race while they still have a tint of sanity left.
Nil Carborundum Illegitemi

Itchy

Biggest problem in gaa at the minute is club apathy.

seafoid

"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

Zulu

#140
Quote from: AZOffaly on January 10, 2017, 09:42:19 PM
Quote from: Zulu on January 10, 2017, 08:45:10 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on January 10, 2017, 02:22:45 PM
Quote from: Real Talk on January 10, 2017, 10:21:00 AM
Folks currently success at County level is not just about ability its also about  ...... MONEY

Money to pay for a back room staff of in some cases over 40 people getting some form of payment from some source to maintain the Professional Prep required to compete at the 'top table'.  If the Dublin's, Kerry's, Mayo's and Tyrone's of this world are training 4/5 times a week ... can you imagine how much player traveling expenses are involved over a 40 week period/year

Good quality players are aware what's happening in this regard throughout the country.  If they believe that 'their' county can't commit/don't want to commit/don't have the sponsorship to pay for that massive expenditure then it is unlikely that they will give up their time to a lost cause in an less than level playing field (no pun intended) .....

Amateur association ..... ?????????????

That's 100% right!
Apathy has feck all to do with Mickey Mouse competitions. Those who remember the Centenary Cup and more recently, the Tommy Murphy will understand this. It takes money to get anywhere nowadays and counties that can't afford the backup of Dublin and the chasing pack; Mayo, Tyrone, Kerry and maybe one or two others, know damn well that all the gutbusting in the world won't get any of them anywhere.

That's 100% wrong in fact. When was there a time when Waterford, Limerick, Carlow, Leitrim, Wicklow, Fermanagh, Antrim, Louth etc. had a realistic chance of winning something? Yes, some of them have challenged during small windows of power during the GAA's 130+ years of existence but the vast majority of counties have started the vast majority of seasons with no chance of winning anything bar their division. I've said this before but the vast majority of county footballers couldn't care less about Dublin's money as they never had the likes of them in their sights anyway.

A few posters have asked what problem we are trying to solve, I find this an astonishing question. For me, it's really simple. I want to see a logical, workable, competitive games structure for all players at all levels. The basic structure for any competition is that players get regular, structured games that are, in the main, at a level where they can compete. For me, the provincials are the biggest stumbling block to achieving that but if they can be included in a proper format fine.

Colin Ryan, the Clare hurler, made a good point when opting out this year. He is a good soccer player too and in that code he said there are no 3 month build ups to games and 2 week fallouts, there's a new game the following week to get on with. The sooner we get our heads out of our arses and play our competitions largely on a league basis the better.

To be fair to you Zulu that's been your mantra for years, and you've stuck to it. However the reason I've asked about what the problem is, is I don't think there is a genuine consensus on that. You mention levels and I think that is certainly something that is far from universally accepted. Therefore any proposals which introduce that concept of tiers, or levels, is immediately controversial.

What you say sounds sensible, but the devil is in the detail and that's why I believe you have to get consensus on that problem, and not in a nebulous idea, but in a clearly stated problem and solution. Problem - Too Many Lopsided games; Solution - Tiered Championship or Preliminary Rounds with seeding based in league position etc etc,

Problem - Uncertain and illogical club calendar; Solution - Shortened inter county season, national club and country integrated calendar, etc etc.

That's what I mean when I ask that at least there is agreement on what the actual problems are before there is any solutions proposed.

Ok AZ, but I've proposed a solution to all that but it sacrifices the provincials. You play the league and seed teams from 1-32 with a championship that pits seed 1 v 32 and so on. I've also said get rid of dual players and lads playing U21 and senior so you can play the hurling and football leagues in 8 weeks (7 rounds and no finals, top wins their division). Knockout is 32 to 16 to 8 to 4 to the final so 5 weeks, hurling one week, football the other so 10 weeks, maybe add in another rest week for finalists making it 12 weeks. That's a 20 week season or 5 months, a completely structured season, numerous games every week, most of your games against teams you can compete with (league) and a pathway to improve and get a more favourable draw in the championship. The three sacred cows we need to sacrifice are the provincials, dual players and U21 and senior dual representatives. In doing that, you can play minor, U21 and senior IC, hurling and football, all within that 5 or 6 month period and leave the other 6 or 7 months to club players. Everyone has a shot at Sam, everyone gets games against appropriate opponents, knockout football is back, burnout risks are eliminated, and players only have to wait two weeks max for a game.

To me that makes so much sense as to be beyond reasonable criticism.

Zulu

Quote from: Lar Naparka on January 10, 2017, 09:45:15 PM
Quote from: Zulu on January 10, 2017, 08:45:10 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on January 10, 2017, 02:22:45 PM
Quote from: Real Talk on January 10, 2017, 10:21:00 AM
Folks currently success at County level is not just about ability its also about  ...... MONEY

Money to pay for a back room staff of in some cases over 40 people getting some form of payment from some source to maintain the Professional Prep required to compete at the 'top table'.  If the Dublin's, Kerry's, Mayo's and Tyrone's of this world are training 4/5 times a week ... can you imagine how much player traveling expenses are involved over a 40 week period/year

Good quality players are aware what's happening in this regard throughout the country.  If they believe that 'their' county can't commit/don't want to commit/don't have the sponsorship to pay for that massive expenditure then it is unlikely that they will give up their time to a lost cause in an less than level playing field (no pun intended) .....

Amateur association ..... ?????????????

That's 100% right!
Apathy has feck all to do with Mickey Mouse competitions. Those who remember the Centenary Cup and more recently, the Tommy Murphy will understand this. It takes money to get anywhere nowadays and counties that can't afford the backup of Dublin and the chasing pack; Mayo, Tyrone, Kerry and maybe one or two others, know damn well that all the gutbusting in the world won't get any of them anywhere.

That's 100% wrong in fact. When was there a time when Waterford, Limerick, Carlow, Leitrim, Wicklow, Fermanagh, Antrim, Louth etc. had a realistic chance of winning something? Yes, some of them have challenged during small windows of power during the GAA's 130+ years of existence but the vast majority of counties have started the vast majority of seasons with no chance of winning anything bar their division. I've said this before but the vast majority of county footballers couldn't care less about Dublin's money as they never had the likes of them in their sights anyway.

A few posters have asked what problem we are trying to solve, I find this an astonishing question. For me, it's really simple. I want to see a logical, workable, competitive games structure for all players at all levels. The basic structure for any competition is that players get regular, structured games that are, in the main, at a level where they can compete. For me, the provincials are the biggest stumbling block to achieving that but if they can be included in a proper format fine.

Colin Ryan, the Clare hurler, made a good point when opting out this year. He is a good soccer player too and in that code he said there are no 3 month build ups to games and 2 week fallouts, there's a new game the following week to get on with. The sooner we get our heads out of our arses and play our competitions largely on a league basis the better.
Now, now Zulu, I wish things were that simple! ;D ;D
There are lots of things we'd all love to see but we know we never will.
Yup, I agree the provinces are a major stumbling block and also that we'd be better served by a largely league format but so what?
What you and probably I want to see may never come to pass in our lifetimes. We all know there's lots wrong with our present competitive structures but we have to accept the situation as it is.

From what I've seen, read or heard an increasing number of intercounty players are opting out of the rat race that Gaelic football has become. Sure lots of counties have always known they'd never have a hope of winning an All Ireland or might just hit it lucky with a provincial title or two in a generation or two but that was before the twin terrors of Professionalism and Science cast  their shadows across the future of the GAA.
Many players, and all are not in the weaker counties, find when they count the cost and the sacrifices involved in playing intercounty football nowadays, the demands are too much and so they opt out.
It's all right talking about the likes of  Waterford, Limerick, Carlow, Leitrim, Wicklow, Fermanagh, Antrim, Louth etc. not having a chance of winning an AI.
But when did players from those counties, or any others, find they had to train 3 or more times a week or put up with having every aspect of their lives supervised and directed by a horde of nutritionists, analysts, doctors, physios and Uncle Tom Cobbley and all. ( You could throw a few psychos into the mix as well, going by some reports!)
Dublin has a professional setup and every county with any serious hopes of winning are doing their best to keep up with the leaders.
Problem for many is the fact that the element of fun and enjoyment has gone out of the game. It's deadly serious now-and not only in the case of Dublin and the three r four other top teams.
All counties are beefing up on Centres of Excellence and all that goes with this. A case of a rising tide lifting all boats. Players from the counties you classify as no-hopers find they are expected to train the same as everybody else. Throw in the increased demands from colleges, clubs and maybe u21 managers at club and county level, as well and an increasing number are opting out of the rat race while they still have a tint of sanity left.

Lar, I agree with all of that bar that we should accept it. This is our GAA and I think we should look to change it.

Lar Naparka

Quote from: Zulu on January 10, 2017, 10:49:36 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on January 10, 2017, 09:45:15 PM
Quote from: Zulu on January 10, 2017, 08:45:10 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on January 10, 2017, 02:22:45 PM
Quote from: Real Talk on January 10, 2017, 10:21:00 AM
Folks currently success at County level is not just about ability its also about  ...... MONEY

Money to pay for a back room staff of in some cases over 40 people getting some form of payment from some source to maintain the Professional Prep required to compete at the 'top table'.  If the Dublin's, Kerry's, Mayo's and Tyrone's of this world are training 4/5 times a week ... can you imagine how much player traveling expenses are involved over a 40 week period/year

Good quality players are aware what's happening in this regard throughout the country.  If they believe that 'their' county can't commit/don't want to commit/don't have the sponsorship to pay for that massive expenditure then it is unlikely that they will give up their time to a lost cause in an less than level playing field (no pun intended) .....

Amateur association ..... ?????????????

That's 100% right!
Apathy has feck all to do with Mickey Mouse competitions. Those who remember the Centenary Cup and more recently, the Tommy Murphy will understand this. It takes money to get anywhere nowadays and counties that can't afford the backup of Dublin and the chasing pack; Mayo, Tyrone, Kerry and maybe one or two others, know damn well that all the gutbusting in the world won't get any of them anywhere.

That's 100% wrong in fact. When was there a time when Waterford, Limerick, Carlow, Leitrim, Wicklow, Fermanagh, Antrim, Louth etc. had a realistic chance of winning something? Yes, some of them have challenged during small windows of power during the GAA's 130+ years of existence but the vast majority of counties have started the vast majority of seasons with no chance of winning anything bar their division. I've said this before but the vast majority of county footballers couldn't care less about Dublin's money as they never had the likes of them in their sights anyway.

A few posters have asked what problem we are trying to solve, I find this an astonishing question. For me, it's really simple. I want to see a logical, workable, competitive games structure for all players at all levels. The basic structure for any competition is that players get regular, structured games that are, in the main, at a level where they can compete. For me, the provincials are the biggest stumbling block to achieving that but if they can be included in a proper format fine.

Colin Ryan, the Clare hurler, made a good point when opting out this year. He is a good soccer player too and in that code he said there are no 3 month build ups to games and 2 week fallouts, there's a new game the following week to get on with. The sooner we get our heads out of our arses and play our competitions largely on a league basis the better.
Now, now Zulu, I wish things were that simple! ;D ;D
There are lots of things we'd all love to see but we know we never will.
Yup, I agree the provinces are a major stumbling block and also that we'd be better served by a largely league format but so what?
What you and probably I want to see may never come to pass in our lifetimes. We all know there's lots wrong with our present competitive structures but we have to accept the situation as it is.

From what I've seen, read or heard an increasing number of intercounty players are opting out of the rat race that Gaelic football has become. Sure lots of counties have always known they'd never have a hope of winning an All Ireland or might just hit it lucky with a provincial title or two in a generation or two but that was before the twin terrors of Professionalism and Science cast  their shadows across the future of the GAA.
Many players, and all are not in the weaker counties, find when they count the cost and the sacrifices involved in playing intercounty football nowadays, the demands are too much and so they opt out.
It's all right talking about the likes of  Waterford, Limerick, Carlow, Leitrim, Wicklow, Fermanagh, Antrim, Louth etc. not having a chance of winning an AI.
But when did players from those counties, or any others, find they had to train 3 or more times a week or put up with having every aspect of their lives supervised and directed by a horde of nutritionists, analysts, doctors, physios and Uncle Tom Cobbley and all. ( You could throw a few psychos into the mix as well, going by some reports!)
Dublin has a professional setup and every county with any serious hopes of winning are doing their best to keep up with the leaders.
Problem for many is the fact that the element of fun and enjoyment has gone out of the game. It's deadly serious now-and not only in the case of Dublin and the three r four other top teams.
All counties are beefing up on Centres of Excellence and all that goes with this. A case of a rising tide lifting all boats. Players from the counties you classify as no-hopers find they are expected to train the same as everybody else. Throw in the increased demands from colleges, clubs and maybe u21 managers at club and county level, as well and an increasing number are opting out of the rat race while they still have a tint of sanity left.

Lar, I agree with all of that bar that we should accept it. This is our GAA and I think we should look to change it.
I've no problem in agreeing with what you say but  the reality is that it's more a case of what should be done rather that could be done. We both know that there will be no change in the provincial system in our lifetimes.
Cork and Kerry  will want their Munster final.
Mayo and Galway will happily continue to kick s**te out of each other for years to come and so and on. Tradition dies hard in GAA land. Remember the Centenary Cup, back in 1984, the centennial year.
THe GAA tried hard to pimp out the competition, the open draw format, but,after the novelty value wore off, the project was quietly shelved. Tommy  Murphy died a relatively quick death also. I remember the chairman of the Carlow board was very dismissive of the competition, even though it was designed for counties like his own.
I can't see radical change anytime soon; apathy is endemic throughout the Association from top to bottom. PLayers who have no realistic chance of winning an AI in the past, now find themselves obliged to ramp up their training and they already have too much on their plate as things were.
Dublin are professional in most senses, others are trying to keep up and right down to the bottom of the pile , players are being forced to devote more and more time to their county's cause.
For many, the sacrifice is too much, because with all counties doing the same, the relative pecking order remains unchanged.
Nil Carborundum Illegitemi

AZOffaly

Is there anything realistically that could be done to look at this issue from another perspective. Can we try and minimise the gaps that are there and make it competitive through some sort of enforced parity, a lá the NFL. Obviously the NFL has a draft system, and free agency, which we can't have, but they also have a system of revenue sharing, salary caps and other elements designed to make sure the richer franchises don't get too far ahead of the rest of them, purely for financial reasons.

Would it be worth the GAA trying to enforce rules about spending on county teams, coming up with rules related to sharing sponsorship revenue, capping backroom team sizes, etc etc?


shark

Quote from: AZOffaly on January 11, 2017, 09:18:52 AM
Is there anything realistically that could be done to look at this issue from another perspective. Can we try and minimise the gaps that are there and make it competitive through some sort of enforced parity, a lá the NFL. Obviously the NFL has a draft system, and free agency, which we can't have, but they also have a system of revenue sharing, salary caps and other elements designed to make sure the richer franchises don't get too far ahead of the rest of them, purely for financial reasons.

Would it be worth the GAA trying to enforce rules about spending on county teams, coming up with rules related to sharing sponsorship revenue, capping backroom team sizes, etc etc?

Hard to do though with the amount of money pumped in from outside the system. Private money is private! Some county boards don't see much of the money that goes in to their senior teams. I've seen a first hand view of this recently. County board, and as an extension Croke Park, clueless to what was been spent. It wasn't their money. And then the indo write a column on what each county spent as if they actually have a clue.

magpie seanie

Quote from: Aaron Boone on January 10, 2017, 08:32:12 PM
Quote from: Cunny Funt on January 10, 2017, 06:57:07 PM
Quote from: sligoman2 on January 10, 2017, 12:36:55 PM
Great to see that Ross Donovan has reversed the trend and has come out of inter-county retirement.  One of the toughest defenders in the country and its great to see him back.
Did he officially retire or take a year out? Sligos neighbors Donegal are going through a major transitional phase with I think 8 of last years panel either retired or taking time out.
Do Sligo and Donegal have a border? Not important anyway.

There's a thin sliver of Leitrim that divides us, only a few miles so the Laythrums can have access to the sea!

AZOffaly

True, but surely there's some sort of central investment, spending money on auditors etc, that go around looking at how counties operate, and with the power to report anomalies. Similar to how the NCAA in America works when it is looking at money going where it shouldn't.

At the moment we have no rules about this, that I'm aware of, other than not being allowed pay players or managers. There's nothing that says Kerry can't spend €1m per year on their county team, or that they can only have a support team of 1 dietician, 1 S&C coach, 2 physios etc.

I am wary of this sort of suggestion, because I believe that it's a good thing that the players are looked after as well as possible, but on the other hand, it is an unfair advantage if the other teams can't afford to do it.

MY biggest bug bear is money invested in coaching at development level, and I'd also like to see that balanced up.

If we can get to a situation where the only advantage is population, and that a player in Leitrim gets the same advantages as a player in Dublin, then at least the sense of hopelessness might dissipate a bit, and games might be a bit more competitive. There's always been non-competitive games, but there's always been hope. My concern is that the very elite group are going to pull away, and the clamour for some sort of tiered championship increases because of the very lopsided games, and the hope of the good run, or the provincial title, disappears altogether.

It's just a thought. I think we can clean up our calendar, and our fixtures, without a doubt. But in terms of trying to redress the competitive balance, I just wonder if we can try to level the external factors playing field, so that only inherent population advantages are all that you are battling against. Fighting against a team with a bigger pick is part of the GAA history. Fighting against a team with a bigger pick, who also spends millions of euros in underage coaching AND in preparing and looking after their senior team, is a new enough phenomenon.

J70

I understand there's a lot of fear of change out there and sentimentality and vested interests in the provincial championships, but could one of these structured seasons, with set club and county weekends and shortened intercounty competitions, not be tried out for one or two years to see how it works? You can always go back...

Yes, if the provincial championships were shelved, it would mean Tyrone forgoing a couple of Ulster titles given their probable near-future status as best Ulster team, but don't they and Dublin and Kerry and Mayo have eyes on the big prize?

AZOffaly

You see I think with a bit of imaginative thinking you CAN preserve the provincials as part of the season, and still shorten the overall competition. I think the Qualifier system needs to go, the League needs to be made more important in terms of seeding, and the Provincials should be straight knockout with only provincial finalists making it into a All ireland Quarter Final. (No qualifiers round 1, 2 3 or 4).

J70

Of course. My point is less about the final structure than the inertia in actually trying to get it changed. We've been discussing this shit for years.

Why not say we'll do something in 2018, commit to it? Then look at the various proposals and vote upon an option to try out. There's been plenty of decent ones proposed and 9 or 10 months to discuss and analyze and choose.