The Many Faces of US Politics...

[Hound]

Biden started very slowly, Trump started reasonably well, got in a couple of witty digs. But then couldn't stop himself being a complete ignorant buffoon for the rest of the debate. Appealing to the base of his base I guess. Trump is good at deflecting questions so he only talks about and around the sound bytes he wants to talk about. Very little depth. 

Biden is clearly superior about discussing policy, albeit when he starts talking about specific numbers, he often had to correct himself. But after the slow start he performed reasonably competently. He did lose the rag twice 'shut up' and 'clown', which was twice too many, but a lot better than many people would have done in the face of the constant interruptions and barbs, and better than being Sleepy Joe.

[J70]

All these left wingers crying blue murder over Judge Barrett being nominated for the supreme Court. Why are they so sexist?

they can cry all they want she's going to be appointed, why doesn't joe tell us who he would appoint?  Maybe The squad  haven't  told him yet .

Some of the squad are cute, but the right wing obsession with them is starting to border on pathological.

Difference between the Republicans and the Dems is that the lunatics have taken over the asylum in the GOP.

Mitch McConnell appears to be happy with that trade-off, but when they start rolling back gay rights and pushing women back into the back alleys for abortions, a backlash will be forthcoming.

hopefully one of them will be going down for ballot harvesting or at least marrying her brother.

Gay rights and Abortion won't be rolled back. The GOP would be punished badly until it it gets overturned.

Marrying her brother? What are you on about?

Chief Justice Roberts has been trying to rein in the culture warriors over the past few years, siding with the four liberals on some important decisions which upheld various hard-won rights and legislation. Unfortunately for him, the new appointment is going to render such efforts futile. Its out of his hands now. His court is about to go full whackjob.

Hopefully what is to come over the next 5-10 years will be the last kick of white christian America trying to impose their minority reactionary worldview on everyone else.

I have to ask - what is going to replace white christian america and what sort of changes can you expect to see?

A multicultural society where its ok to be gay or transgender or non-white or non-christian.

Its already there in much of the country.

But a significant minority feel that their right to discriminate is being discriminated against. They happen to be a major constituency of the GOP and Trump's base, and being a more rural demographic than their liberal opponents, they wield power beyond their numbers due to the quirks of the US federal system.

ok. I always had the impression that it was already fairly open to all races and genders and it was more a numbers thing.  Barack Obama did manage to become president so it can't be that discriminatory.

Like I said, not an issue in many places. Or maybe even most. But it is an issue for significant minority of the population. The problem for the rest of us is they're over-represented in terms of political power. Obama was an exceptional politician, who also benefited from coming in when people were jaded with Bush and the GOP and the Iraq war and the financial collapse. But even if he wasn't, just because he got a little over 50% of the vote doesn't mean that the views and politics of the slightly less than 50% who voted against him are not a significant factor in American life.

[sid waddell]

Biden refusing to condemn Antifa.
Trump refusing to condemn proud boys.

How did America get to this point?

Trump openly encouraged the "Proud Boys" to attack people

The "Proud Boys" are white supremacist terrorists

Antifa means anti-fascism

It's very Orwellian that anybody would ask anybody to condemn anti-fascism - it's something that should be praised thoroughly, not condemned

Your post and false equivalence are deeply instructive as to your views, and very scary if in any way representative of Trump's support - which they are

[sid waddell]

Democracy is on a knife edge. Unhinged Trump.. Media trying to be fair and it ain't working.

The media have enabled Trump for his whole life

They are enablers of fascism with constant false balance, false equivalence and deference

They are biased in favour of ratings even if it means they enable fascism

There will be many books written about the shameful failure of media in the face of Trump and his fascism over the last five years

[RedHand88]

Democracy is on a knife edge. Unhinged Trump.. Media trying to be fair and it ain't working.

The media have enabled Trump for his whole life

They are enablers of fascism with constant false balance, false equivalence and deference

They are biased in favour of ratings even if it means they enable fascism

There will be many books written about the shameful failure of media in the face of Trump and his fascism over the last five years

No matter how many times you say Trump is a fascist, it won't make it true.

Has Biden denounced the Antifa terrorists yet? Or is he still telling people to bail them out? I mean, not even Trump said anything like that.

[sid waddell]

Democracy is on a knife edge. Unhinged Trump.. Media trying to be fair and it ain't working.

The media have enabled Trump for his whole life

They are enablers of fascism with constant false balance, false equivalence and deference

They are biased in favour of ratings even if it means they enable fascism

There will be many books written about the shameful failure of media in the face of Trump and his fascism over the last five years

No matter how many times you say Trump is a fascist, it won't make it true.

Has Biden denounced the Antifa terrorists yet? Or is he still telling people to bail them out? I mean, not even Trump said anything like that.

Some people said that about Hitler in the 1930s
'
We are living through equally dangerous times, frankly anybody who isn't invoking the historical spectre of Hitler as regards Trump isn't paying attention at all

Trump's own defence secretary invoked comparisons to the Nazis about him

I hope you can sleep, actually I hope you can't - I wouldn't if I was so shamelessly on the wrong side of history like you, but I suppose in your case the shamelessness takes care of the sleeping

Another NI Catholic who rejects the lessons of their own their Irish history and then some

People like you were the natural allies of the Glennane Gang and the likes

[J70]

Democracy is on a knife edge. Unhinged Trump.. Media trying to be fair and it ain't working.

The media have enabled Trump for his whole life

They are enablers of fascism with constant false balance, false equivalence and deference

They are biased in favour of ratings even if it means they enable fascism

There will be many books written about the shameful failure of media in the face of Trump and his fascism over the last five years

No matter how many times you say Trump is a fascist, it won't make it true.

Has Biden denounced the Antifa terrorists yet? Or is he still telling people to bail them out? I mean, not even Trump said anything like that.

Biden is on the record multiple times condemning looting, rioting and other violence which attached itself to the protests.

Where has he asked people to bail out Antifa suspects?

As for Trump, he absolutely has fascist tendencies, whether its the refusal to disavow far right support; his own bigoted rhetoric and policies targeting immigrants, Muslims and LGBT people; his use of state law enforcement to clear peaceful protests and foment violence; and his oft-stated admiration for dictatorial strongmen.

[sid waddell]

Well worth listening to this podcast series

There are several posters here who are classic victims of the cult of far right internet radicalisation

https://www.nytimes.com/column/rabbit-hole

[Taylor]

Democracy is on a knife edge. Unhinged Trump.. Media trying to be fair and it ain't working.

The media have enabled Trump for his whole life

They are enablers of fascism with constant false balance, false equivalence and deference

They are biased in favour of ratings even if it means they enable fascism

There will be many books written about the shameful failure of media in the face of Trump and his fascism over the last five years

No matter how many times you say Trump is a fascist, it won't make it true.

Has Biden denounced the Antifa terrorists yet? Or is he still telling people to bail them out? I mean, not even Trump said anything like that.

Some people said that about Hitler in the 1930s
'
We are living through equally dangerous times, frankly anybody who isn't invoking the historical spectre of Hitler as regards Trump isn't paying attention at all

Trump's own defence secretary invoked comparisons to the Nazis about him

I hope you can sleep, actually I hope you can't - I wouldn't if I was so shamelessly on the wrong side of history like you, but I suppose in your case the shamelessness takes care of the sleeping

Another NI Catholic who rejects the lessons of their own their Irish history and then some

People like you were the natural allies of the Glennane Gang and the likes

Wise the f**k up Sid - coming out with that shite

[Gmac]

If was an embarrassment from start to finish .

[screenexile]

If was an embarrassment from start to finish .

At least they can't accuse Joe of wearing a wire... he couldn't be that bad on the figures if he was!!

He was still marginally better than Trump thoguh!

[LCohen]

Biden refusing to condemn Antifa.
Trump refusing to condemn proud boys.

How did America get to this point?

There is key difference.

Proud Boys exist as a structured group. Trump blew the dog whistle and the boys stood proud. Shameful stuff.

Antifa provide a very different. I'm anti-fascist. Many years ago I was a paid up member of an anti fascist organisation. Hopefully everyone on here is anti fascist. Trump and the right cannot bring themselves between anti fascists like myself who can recognise racism when we see it and a minority within antifa and the wider left that probably do go to unacceptable extremes. I don't think Biden would have the least problem condemning those extremes. But the right never ask that question do they?

[J70]

Wait until the next one when Trump goes apeshit at some audience member who has the audacity to demand a real answer from him in the town hall setting.

[LCohen]

Democracy is on a knife edge. Unhinged Trump.. Media trying to be fair and it ain't working.

The media have enabled Trump for his whole life

They are enablers of fascism with constant false balance, false equivalence and deference

They are biased in favour of ratings even if it means they enable fascism

There will be many books written about the shameful failure of media in the face of Trump and his fascism over the last five years

No matter how many times you say Trump is a fascist, it won't make it true.

Has Biden denounced the Antifa terrorists yet? Or is he still telling people to bail them out? I mean, not even Trump said anything like that.

You could debate all day about Trump is a fascist or not. Who really knows what he believes. But it is unquestionably the case that he is personally willing to stir racial tensions and play to a fascist gallery to get what he wants. Once you see those objective facts he ceases to be fit to hold office right there.

[LCohen]

Wait until the next one when Trump goes apeshit at some audience member who has the audacity to demand a real answer from him in the town hall setting.

Would even be sure there will be a next one.

Trump and his team agreed to a set of rules for this one and then ignored. The moderator needs to stand up to the participants and a mute button when it's not there turn. They can each be given a right of reply and be given a chance to get their point across - if they have one that is